good luck FC!

[Syruse]

So, does that mean 1.3 effectively did nothing?

[Ulfengaard]

So, does that mean 1.3 effectively did nothing?

We got cocoa beans. That's just as good as the extended block ID's or the API or the client/server merge, right? Right?

*sadface* Mojang, what's happened to you?

[FlowerChild]

So, does that mean 1.3 effectively did nothing?

I'm still digging...so stayed tuned.

What I fear though, is that this whole thing has basically been about integrating *LAN* play and SP...not true multiplayer.

Fuck man, I was really expecting a proper code restructuring here. There REALLY should not be two copies of the same code in any code-base like this, and I've been waiting for about a year for this thing to happen.

I'm really hoping I'm misunderstanding/missing something. I'll keep digging.

Right now it appears that the code between the two versions of Block.java I'm looking at *is* the same, but there are functions in each that are not the other.

I'm *hoping* this might be a side-effect of the compilation process or something...maybe unused functions aren't being compiled, and are thus left out of the obfuscated code.

[Panda]

So, does that mean 1.3 effectively did nothing?

I'm still digging...so stayed tuned.

What I fear though, is that this whole thing has basically been about integrating *LAN* play and SP...not true multiplayer.

Fuck man, I was really expecting a proper code restructuring here. There REALLY should not be two copies of the same code in any code-base like this, and I've been waiting for about a year for this thing to happen.

I'm really hoping I'm misunderstanding/missing something. I'll keep digging.

Right now it appears that the code between the two versions of Block.java I'm looking at *is* the same, but there are functions in each that are not the other.

I'm *hoping* this might be a side-effect of the compilation process or something...maybe unused functions aren't being compiled, and are thus left out of the obfuscated code.

Honestally even if you stayed at 1.2.5 forever ide never update Vmc :D
My faith is in you though papa flower!

[Syruse]

Best wishes man, it would suck if this whole merger thing turned out to be bunk.

[ada221]

imagine this scene:

-----A young man walking happily with a smile on his face, staring into the screen of a cellphone while walking on a sidewalk in a deserted, rainy downtown area. Why is this man happy? his friends just texted him and told him that 1.3 came out today. what diffrence does that make? who cares? well, this young man and his friends are avid, well informed, BTW players and knew that 1.3 would mean the merging of the code bases and thus FC would finally make BTW SMP. said young man had been promising his friends that he would set up said server ever since he learned the expected results of said merger.

now imagine this young man, in the rain, in the deserted, desolate city begin to frown upon the recent news he found on a forum, THE forum for BTW. he realizes that he will have to wait, like he has done for ages. the endless wait... suddenly, spontaniously, he falls to his knees and screams at the grey, rainy sky: "PORQUE!!!!!!!!!!!" as roosted pigeons scurry away, startled, from the odd noise eminating from this tiny, insignificant man.-------

this can give you a rough idea of what went on in my head as i read FC's post

[FlowerChild]

Ok, thankfully, I think my above theory may be correct.

For the most part (I've noticed a couple of small exceptions, but nothing that can't be explained), it looks like the differences between the client and server versions come down to only being functions that are present in the client (related to display and such), but not in the server. I've run diffs on several files now, and it seems to be the case.

So what I *think* is happening is that the files are the same on Mojang's end, they then get compiled into the two separate versions, and the compiler ditches unreferenced methods in each. MCP then decompiles that obfuscated code, and the end result of each is different because of those dropped methods.

Still though, I'm rather disappointed that client and server functionality are even in the same files to begin with, as it really should be two entirely separate things, but at least this appears like it may be workable.

This is why I've referred to this as merger/separation BTW. On one hand, you want a single unified code-base with no duplicate code between client and server. On the other hand, you want the functionality of the two isolated from each other in a modular fashion, where the distinction between what the server handles, and what the client handles, is well defined.

It appears we have one, but not the other. Again though, it looks workable.

[ada221]

-snip-

so.... false alarm? *crosses fingers*

[FlowerChild]

so.... false alarm? *crosses fingers*

Kinda. It sucks for me, but I doubt it will impact you guys in the long run.

[sargunv]

Take as much time as you want. The longer BTW takes to update, the more time I have to procrastinate. :P

[Syruse]

So all hope is not lost?

That's fantastic news!

[ExpHP]

I'd imagine that they did it this way so that minecraft_server.jar doesn't need to be distributed to players. Though I do have to agree that it seems fundamentally odd to have both embedded-server methods and client-specific methods on the very same class.

Seems frustrating, but I'm glad to hear things are looking workable!

[morvelaira]

I've also heard whisperings through the grapevine that Risugumi is also actively working on modloader at the moment. Some folks had been trying to spread the rumor that Risu would not be updating for 1.3. I'm just here to say that is now shown to be blatantly false. :)

[Extreme Boyheat]

For the coders out there, take a look at the two versions of Block.java for an idea of what I mean. It's the first place I looked.

Holy crap, are they on the goofballs or what?

[FlowerChild]

I'd imagine that they did it this way so that minecraft_server.jar doesn't need to be distributed to players. Though I do have to agree that it seems fundamentally odd to have both embedded-server methods and client-specific methods on the very same class.

Having client and server as separate executables containing the same code isn't an issue, or anything I'd complain about. I've done the same in the past with games that had standalone servers as a separate program.

The key is that they both use the same code, just compiled in different ways.

That part is fine. It's the internal separation of the functionality that seems to leave much to be desired. With blocks for example, IMO, what you really want is a server block that handles all the game logic. Client side, you want code that's basically related to display, sound, that kind of thing.

It doesn't matter if they wind up existing within the same executable in the end. Keeping the two entirely separate internally clearly defines the separation between what is handled by what portion of the code. Bunching them all together like this inevitably leads to errors like display functionality creeping into the server side (like...I already saw a reference to the texture on a block server-side which I suspect really shouldn't be there), or game-logic creeping into the client side. It's basically just additional ambiguity introduced into the code that will ultimately lead to bugs.

Anyways, it's just messier than I would have hoped after all the work invested in it. Like I said, it likely won't affect you guys.

[FlowerChild]

I've also heard whisperings through the grapevine that Risugumi is also actively working on modloader at the moment. Some folks had been trying to spread the rumor that Risu would not be updating for 1.3. I'm just here to say that is now shown to be blatantly false. :)

Yeah, I never really believed that one, but glad to hear additional confirmation :)

[fearofshorts]

Thanks again FC, for continuing to wade through both confounding code and even more confounding posts on MCF.
*gives FC a pat on the back*

...

*asks to borrow a bandage for the stump where my hand was*

[Poppycocks]

Sent you a little something. Make no mistake, that's booze money, buy yourself a nice (cheap) little bottle to help you trough the skull-drudgery.

[SgtChuckle]

Dude, that sucks more than Pamela Anderson in the 90's. I wish you best of luck in the update and hope you manage to keep hold of what few scraps of sanity remain through the arduous process. We can wait as long as needed, and it's not like anybody is new at staving off MCF update trolls in the meantime :) I'd send you a little cash, but I'm really stretched thin right now.

[bmanfoley]

FC, above all else with updating the mod, I just hope you take your time. I'd really hate to see you try to do things as fast as possible and end up getting frustrated or something.


...

Also, I'm waiting to get my next paycheck so I can send something your way before you put out the next release :P

EDIT: Eh, screw it. There you go, FC :)

[redrew89]

If I weren't stuck with back-rent and student loans, I would finance a mini-bar for you, FC. Keep it up, but try not to work too hard. :)

[shifty]

Best of luck! Sent you something to get by and thank you for all the hard work. Booze or coffee, whatever is more appropriate :)

[UmbralDragon]

Hello everyone,

I've been poking around here in the BTW forums for a bit, and am enjoying what I've been reading so far. BTW is an inspired Mod, and I'm really enjoying it. FC, you're one hell of a programmer. If I were at all familiar with Java, I'd dig in with you and help to fix some of Mojang's bizarre coding habits. Strange stuff... But I guess that goes along with the mistake of 'coding to please the masses.' Instead of coding to do what makes sense. (What a unique idea, right?)

Anyhoo FC, I just wanted to thank you for a Mod well done, and to wish you lots of patience and skill boosts for dealing with 1.3.x.

Morvelaira:
I love your Let's Plays with BTW. Outstanding videos. I'm very much looking forward to seeing more :)
Also, thank you for providing the Mob Trap video. :)

Have fun all ;)

[Marasambala]

Now, that's a propper first post.

I second the support for FC.
Thanks for all your work.

[FlowerChild]

Thanks guys! All the support and booze is much appreciated :)