Better than Powered Carts!

[Triskelli]

Added a poll! Be sure to vote!

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No ideas here yet, but I just wanted to discuss "powered carts" in the game. We all know that they're fairly weak and outclassed by Booster Rails in almost every significant way... except they're cheaper. I think that powered minecarts were as much a dead-end as wolves are, if not even more insignificant.


We all can hear that whistle coming, even if we're not sure what it's arriving on. I'm hoping it'll be something better than powered carts, but do we need some sort of locomotive? Is it a constructive addition to the mod or is it an aesthetic upgrade?

[KriiEiter]

A treadmill that supplies mechanical power as long as it has a powered minecart running on top of it?

I feel like perhaps the whistle has nothing to do with anything and Flower loves to torment us.

[Triskelli]

Huh, that's... intriguing.

I was honestly thinking of something like the Powered Cart as it is, but with more power, control, and reliability. Heck, a way to turn it around without removing it from the world would be a significant improvement!

Wait a minute... (goes off to tinker with turntables)

*EDIT*

Note to self, Powered Carts do NOT turn with turntables. Worth a shot, though.

In any case, I think the turntable as a concept hints toward a more expanded role for railroads. And a locomotive is a logical (if redundant) expansion of the concept.

[KriiEiter]

Huh, that's... intriguing.

I was honestly thinking of something like the Powered Cart as it is, but with more power, control, and reliability. Heck, a way to turn it around without removing it from the world would be a significant improvement!

Wait a minute... (goes off to tinker with turntables)

*EDIT*

Note to self, Powered Carts do NOT turn with turntables. Worth a shot, though.

In any case, I think the turntable as a concept hints toward a more expanded role for railroads. And a locomotive is a logical (if redundant) expansion of the concept.

Why not put a block on top of the turntable and a minetrack on that with a loop shooting off to the side (so the cart circles around to change directions).

You could just make the loop go up a few blocks then drop the cart back onto the track from above. There's other ways to do it but that's probably easiest.

[Triskelli]

Just some concepts I've seen lying around before, just thought I'd put them here.

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Drills and locomotives! Overpowered, unnecessary or a vital addition?

[gftweek]

I don't think a horizontal drilling machine is that useful, it probably won't be able to mine any faster than you can with a steel pickaxe, and for the powered minecart/locomotive to work there would have to be rails put down for it to move forward on. If it could lay the rails itself, it would probably be overpowered.

I definitely think powered minecarts are broken, and should be fixed or removed, however I think with the inclusion of rivers and oceans in 1.8, boats are probably going be a lot more useful, so a boat that includes storage (maybe a steamboat even) would be of more value at this stage.

Can you change the direction of a powered minecart by making it run over a powered rail with a block in front of it?

[Triskelli]

Can you change the direction of a powered minecart by making it run over a powered rail with a block in front of it?

Nope.

So in what ways can powered carts be improved? Getting the carts to link to each other is a great place to start, but that's been a goal since they were included in the game and I haven't seen anyone manage it yet. I think a speed/power boost with a little more control over movement is the way to go, but that's almost too simple...

Storage boats (Barges?) is another cool idea, especially coupled with the way most factories are already set up.

[KriiEiter]

I don't think a horizontal drilling machine is that useful, it probably won't be able to mine any faster than you can with a steel pickaxe, and for the powered minecart/locomotive to work there would have to be rails put down for it to move forward on. If it could lay the rails itself, it would probably be overpowered.

I definitely think powered minecarts are broken, and should be fixed or removed, however I think with the inclusion of rivers and oceans in 1.8, boats are probably going be a lot more useful, so a boat that includes storage (maybe a steamboat even) would be of more value at this stage.

Can you change the direction of a powered minecart by making it run over a powered rail with a block in front of it?

Yeah boats look like they're going to be A LOT more useful since maps may start looking a lot more like this (this is a preview topogrophy map Notch tweeted). The darker blue part is the deeper oceans he's working on.

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This is a river picture Notch posted (with enhanced height input into the biome settings).

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[walker_boh_65]

I don't think a horizontal drilling machine is that useful, it probably won't be able to mine any faster than you can with a steel pickaxe, and for the powered minecart/locomotive to work there would have to be rails put down for it to move forward on. If it could lay the rails itself, it would probably be overpowered.

I definitely think powered minecarts are broken, and should be fixed or removed, however I think with the inclusion of rivers and oceans in 1.8, boats are probably going be a lot more useful, so a boat that includes storage (maybe a steamboat even) would be of more value at this stage.

Can you change the direction of a powered minecart by making it run over a powered rail with a block in front of it?

Yeah boats look like they're going to be A LOT more useful since maps may start looking a lot more like this (this is a preview topogrophy map Notch tweeted). The darker blue part is the deeper oceans he's working on.

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This is a river picture Notch posted (with enhanced height input into the biome settings).

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that stuff looks amazing, i wont be starting a new world til then

[Stormweaver]

Must admit, notch does seem like he's making up for the last few releases with 1.8; the terrain generation on it's own will be worth it (though it'd be too much to hope that it'll have inbuilt customisation options). Making a nice BTW settlement on an island somwhere just seems...nice.

...now to pray he doesn't do anything that kills BTW; I can half see a recipe for rope made of 3 string happening.

[FlowerChild]

...now to pray he doesn't do anything that kills BTW; I can half see a recipe for rope made of 3 string happening.

Lol! Yeah, admittedly, that would hurt :)

[Miton2011]

Is there any more of those pics anywhere? They look amazing!

[Triskelli]

Which pictures, Miton?

[Stormweaver]

Which pictures, Miton?

the ones notch posted on twitter.

If there are more pics they would also be on notch's twitter. strange that. or jeb's. but notch tends to repost them anyways.

[Zhil]

Which pictures, Miton?

The ones four posts above yours -.-

[KriiEiter]

Yeah those are the only two currently that he released.

[Triskelli]

Ok, trying to get a little back on topic...

Which does everyone think would be more useful for BTW: New boats, or new carts?

[Damion Rayne]

New boats wont be even remotely useful until terrain generation creates extraordinarily large bodies of water that need to be crossed. For the time being either reworking the current Minecart system to turn the furnace cart into an actual steam powered locomotive would be awesome, though again we walk a tight rope balancing act. Once FC adds such a change to the game then boosters are no longer needed, at least in my opinion. Perhaps making it easier to do steam locomotive before one builds up to automated mine cart systems using powered and detector rails? I have no idea really to be honest. One thing that is needed though is the ability to "link" mine carts together.

With out that added ability the creation of a steam powered locomotive would be meaningless. You'd actually want to have it be able to "pull" other storage and passenger mine carts along with itself, this would be huge on SMP servers. you could atually build working supply and passenger rail roads.

-DR

[Deepsniper]

The coal powered carts actually can be useful. They do push other carts around and can push up to 3 chest carts up a 1 to 1 hill... The only problem is that they 1. Use up fuel and 2. Are so slow... And you also need to go with the carts...

[Triskelli]

This would probably wind up being totally impractical, but with the inclusion of steel we have a chance to "fix" the way rails and carts interact.

Why not alter the way tracks are laid so it resembles Rollercoaster Tycoon? A new kind of rail with wider turns, and longer tracks made from steel. A proper locomotive with "boxcars" (double storage carts) would travel faster than even rail boosters and run on less fuel than powered carts, and would be able to link to each other. The trade-offs for such a system would be having it high on the tech-tree, (Well into the next age), and the new rails would require more space than their predecessors.

Granted, this might be better off as a separate mod, but I would love to see Flowerchild take Notch's buggy minecarts and make something useful out of them.

[BigShinyToys]

There is a mod for MC 1.73 that adds trains . it is called trains and zeplins (i will add a link if any one requests it) this mos also adds steel and last i played it . it was BTW compatible. i used it alot but found it masivly OP and stoped playing with it. back on topic . the two things most people want is a more powerfull powered cart and a way to link carts inot trains. that is what i would like to see in BTW .

[Triskelli]

Yeah, I've seen that mod before, BigShiny.

The problem with that mod is that it adds alot more than needed to a fairly simple concept, and what it does add isn't as well implemented as it could be. It's just my opinion that if anyone can make a proper locomotive with linking cars, it would be Flowerchild.

And even if a locomotive is a superfluous addition, it would be a damn pretty one. A line of carts chuffing along across a trestle as the sun sets behind them... It's one of those things that seems worth adding for its own sake.

[walker_boh_65]

from my brief overview of it, it seems they added new detector rails (that function in a similar way to BTW) and it seems to be more fluff then anything really, he based made a bunch of powered mine carts have a GUI and be able to be controlled by the player.

And now on topic: I like the limitations working with the current rail system, if FC were to improve it, i would be against, nut i dont see a need. Storage boats i see as much more useful (if controllable) because you dont need any tracks to go from one location to other. You also can go to a brand new location with all of you stuff with you.

this is just me rambling a bit

[Glox]

Anyone who plays around with minecarts a bit will understand why FC stated that he wouldn't want to touch the minecart code with a 10 foot pole. They move weirdly when not on tracks, they get stuck in other blocks, a stationary cart (on tracks) that gets hit by a cart at full speed will just stay there like nothing happened, etc. (oh and remember old super boosters?) I think Notch realised that too and instead of buffing the super weak powered minecarts he just added booster rails in. Same result with less work.
Maybe some tweaks on the power of powered minecarts are a possibility or something like a player powered cart that was suggested a while ago(while in the cart you left click repeatedly to power the cart, like this:

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), but anything that changes how cart collisions work you can just forget about probably. It would be nice but don't get your hopes up.

[Triskelli]

I know Flower has said before that the Minecart code is a mess. While this is more or less telling Flower how to make his mod, I'd be willing to bet that FlowerChild could write his own version of the minecart code from the ground up, and make it better than Notch's in every way.

But that's just my opinion. =]