Design Discussion: Anyone care about redstone emitting light

[FlowerChild]

So, here's the thing: Something has bothered me at a technical level for awhile now. Redstone torches and repeaters emit a small amount of light when they are powered. I'm not talking about them appearing bright red, I'm talking about them lighting up nearby blocks.

To me, this has no real gameplay impact. The light isn't enough to affect things like monster-spawns, it's just a very small visual effect.

The problem with this is that it means every time a redstone torch or repeater powers up and down, nearby blocks need to recalculate their lighting. Not a big deal for a small circuit, but if you're building big complex circuits, or a whole bunch of them, it's definitely going to lead to a drop in performance.

I've known about this for a long time, but now that I'm modifying the block class, it's just changes to 4 lines of code for me to get rid of this. It wouldn't surprise me if that results in a significant performance boost for people with developed BTW worlds.

So, my question is this: Anyone care enough about the lighting on these things for that to be an issue for them?

[SterlingRed]

Never used it for lighting and I don't care if its gone. Would this apply to the ore as well? I don't use that either but some use it as a block update for mob/player detection.

[Anbaric]

I would say, DO it! The lighting updates redstone forces are the main cause of lag for larger redstone creations.

The only thing I'm concerned about is adventure maps that use RS Torches to provide direction without halting mob spawns, but that's both personal, and an easy workaround.

[FlowerChild]

Never used it for lighting and I don't care if its gone. Would this apply to the ore as well? I don't use that either but some use it as a block update for mob/player detection.

No, I'd leave ore alone as since you only trigger a few of those blocks here and there, it really doesn't matter.

The only thing I'm concerned about is adventure maps that use RS Torches to provide direction without halting mob spawns, but that's both personal, and an easy workaround.

Not at all actually, as like I said, they'll still appear bright red when on, they just won't light up neighboring blocks.

[Stormweaver]

I've known about this for a long time, but now that I'm modifying the block class, it's just changes to 4 lines of code for me to get rid of this. It wouldn't surprise me if that results in a significant performance boost for people with developed BTW worlds.

I think I love you. Now I can only play minecraft on the laptop (which is bad enough as it is) lighting updates are a major impact on my performance.

[Sarudak]

I say go for it.

[LupusExMachina]

As long as powered redstone is clearly distinguashable, I don't care.
The lighting on these has no gameplay impact for me whatsoever.

As far as I know they don't even emit a red dyed light, so I don't think people use them to mark places based on the lighting colour. I might be wrong though.

So, as far as it concerns me, you're right that their current state puts unnecessary load on the server without any benefit.

I'm intrigued though, to see if other people found a use for them, based on that property, I didn't see.

[magikeh]

please yes, make it go away. I recently added a very large door to my potions room on Elodas and it lag spikes a bit each time it opens. With the removal of this feature... i think the pros outweigh the cons. (prettyness vs lag) most especially since the major port of code that makes the game lag even harder than ever before. So please, for the love of the Enderdragon make it go away! ^_^/

[Foxy Boxes]

I used them as interior lighting for one of my more fanciful mob traps so I could watch the mobs spawn and fall without effecting spawn rates, but that's a fringe case so I say go for it. Although wasn't there talk about the lighting being changed in vMC?

[FlowerChild]

I used them as interior lighting for one of my more fanciful mob traps so I could watch the mobs spawn and fall without effecting spawn rates, but that's a fringe case so I say go for it. Although wasn't there talk about the lighting being changed in vMC?

Yeah, but I doubt this would be any less beneficial with a new lighting system.

There's just the inherent problem that these are blocks you want to toggle on and off very rapidly, so thus also associating them with lighting updates is a rather silly thing to do.

I've got zero problem with a low-level lighting solution. Heck, I might even put something in to act as a substitute if that's something people really like. However, I won't make it a block that you also have to strobe in large numbers to build circuits ;)

[Rianaru]

My opinion is put it on the chopping block. Redstone lighting up things always bothered me anyways.

[magikeh]

Heck, I might even put something in to act as a substitute if that's something people really like.

Candles man, candles! ;)

[Svartwolf]

While I personally have used the dim lighting of redstone torches and the torches itself for aesthethic purposes, there is not a single reason why a dim light emmiting block should ve associated with a redstone torch. I say, kill it with fire, and give the dim lighting generation to another block in a near future (once the blocks id update is released, it should be a breeze) : )

oh.. ninjaed DX

[FlowerChild]

Candles man, candles! ;)

No, I have specific plans for candles that wouldn't work with this.

I'm thinking more along the lines of glowstone dust torches or what have you. If it's going to be a proper substitute it needs to be something that is relatively cheap to produce in large numbers, at least in comparison to the availability of redstone.

[Psion]

I approve of nonlighting redstone! Especially since I use piston push type mob traps, so having the inside constantly lighting up is probably bad for performance. (not that my computer has to worry, but my neighbors do, so it would be nice if they can visit my base without lagging lol.)

I also love the idea of a low lighting alternative, since mood lighting would be nice for some of the creepier dungeons or the like, just enough for you to see your way around without keeping mobs from spawning, or for using as a low level light to see your way around inside your mob trap.

[jakerman999]

The only argument I have against removing the lightsource is that I have on occasion had a torch that was emmiting(or not as might be the case) light around a corner. I was using the light as feedback instead of the visual state of the torch. It wouldn't be to difficult to add another string of redstone out as an actual monitor though.

Definitely in favour of adding a lower level lightsource if you go with ripping out light emission, as being able to see without affecting mob spawns or wolf happiness is very handy.

[destineternel]

I agree, get rid of it. :)

[Sarudak]

The only argument I have against removing the lightsource is that I have on occasion had a torch that was emmiting(or not as might be the case) light around a corner. I was using the light as feedback instead of the visual state of the torch. It wouldn't be to difficult to add another string of redstone out as an actual monitor though.

Stick a lightblock next to the torch...

[Benanov]

Nuke it. Redstone doesn't emit enough light to stop spawns, and lighting an area with them can be done other ways. The flashing eats performance. If we want remote-controlled lighting, we'll use light blocks (or redstone lamps, but light blocks are cheaper).

The *only* thing I can think of using that low-level lighting is for lighting mob traps so that you can navigate them without disrupting their ability to spawn, but that's not a huge use case, and I've already got two work-arounds in mind.

[Six]

I whole heartedly support this, cutting those chunk lighting updates would do wonders for performance.

[DaveYanakov]

The only concern I would have is that if redstone no longer produces a flashing beacon in dark areas, it's going to remove a lot of pressure to artfully hide your wiring so that it blends in with the surrounding terrain. You'll still want to hide it but it won't be the sort of thing you need to do before you turn the machine on to test it. As it is, I've been hiding my circuits and then having to dig the whole thing back up to fix errors. The sense of paranoia produced is delicious.

[Sarudak]

The only concern I would have is that if redstone no longer produces a flashing beacon in dark areas, it's going to remove a lot of pressure to artfully hide your wiring so that it blends in with the surrounding terrain. You'll still want to hide it but it won't be the sort of thing you need to do before you turn the machine on to test it. As it is, I've been hiding my circuits and then having to dig the whole thing back up to fix errors. The sense of paranoia produced is delicious.

If you're talking about anarchy then I'm confused about why you would be building out in the open in the first place and if you're not talking about anarchy then why does hiding it matter?

[devak]

Well my opinion is:

do it, and if it's too much of a negative impact, change it back. my expectation tho, is that it's just fine. For me, it's under the category of "gimmicks" (like Bats, cakes, etc).

[odranoel]

id personally have no problem with this and anything that increases performance is a win win in my book. so id say deff go for it. i always light up my redstone circuits with regular torches anyway so i will in no way miss the redstone lighting.

however on that thought considering some people might (again might) miss it. maybe this would be the kind of thing thats best left as optional? i duno how much more difficult making specific things optional is, but that would seem like the best way to go if possible. but if not, then please just rip it out, our CPU's will thank you for it, and another useless vanilla feature will have been nerfed :)

[william711]

The only thing I have ever noticed about red stone lighting is that large circuits look pretty cool at night when they are functioning, but most people I think cover up their circuits. I think most people wouldn't really notice it was missing if you took out red stone lighting, at least until they started building another circuit.