On fixing mob AI

[Stormweaver]

So, Thought I'd check the twitters. Nothing from jeb, but remembering the AI guy, there was a tweet (I...can't remember how to link specific tweets) which linked to This post on reddit.

First comment under it is the AI guy. He said he's going to try and fix these bugs. For reference, those bugs are:

Fix airy blocks (signs etc) being interpreted as obstacles. (The obvious one).
Fix detection of special height blocks like fences and halfsteps.
Have the topmost block of water be interpreted as air. This is closest to what they actually can do in water.
Climbing ladders... not sure if I want that. It's creepy enough already.

I know for a fact the first has the potential to break the vast majority of mob traps, but...yeah. While I'm impressed with the new AI (zombies are bloody creepy now) I'm really worried that every mob trap I'll make in the future will require silly amounts of lag-inducing pistons -.-

[johnt]

I'd really like him to add some more advanced behaviors for endermen. They're still kind of a half-baked idea.

[DaveYanakov]

At least BTW mob traps should remain unaffected if they use vine traps in place of signs. I will be curious to see if this will affect wterflows that use signs for control.

[orangeweaver]

At least BTW mob traps should remain unaffected if they use vine traps in place of signs. I will be curious to see if this will affect wterflows that use signs for control.

It sounds that way to me. Sounds like my chicken egg / furnace combo is going to break.

[orangeweaver]

I'd really like him to add some more advanced behaviors for endermen. They're still kind of a half-baked idea.

I would like this as well. I remember when Endermen were first introduced I was really freaked out, I would walk out of my base whenever I saw one I would get so paranoid I was walking around looking at the ground. Now when I see an Endermen the only thing I think is that fucker better not teleport when I start attacking it and not come back.

And that is a problem.

[Zhil]

I will be curious to see if this will affect wterflows that use signs for control.

These are two completely unrelated parts of the code, don't worry.

In fact, chances are existing that this fix will make FC's job easier. I know that the code doesn't consistently use the "IsAirBlock" method right now. Fixing the AI to recognize signs, etc as air blocks requires that method, in turn resulting in fixing that issue and making FC's job easier when developing blocks that need to act like air (like the block in front of the DB, which isn't actually an air block, but the "real" detector block).

[orangeweaver]

I will be curious to see if this will affect wterflows that use signs for control.

These are two completely unrelated parts of the code, don't worry.

In fact, chances are existing that this fix will make FC's job easier. I know that the code doesn't consistently use the "IsAirBlock" method right now. Fixing the AI to recognize signs, etc as air blocks requires that method, in turn resulting in fixing that issue and making FC's job easier when developing blocks that need to act like air (like the block in front of the DB, which isn't actually an air block, but the "real" detector block).

:O. So my chicken farm may survive?

[Zhil]

:O. So my chicken farm may survive?

It will survive.

Basically, the zombie sees signs as blocks right now, so it tries to jump over them. The fix to that is making the zombie see signs as air, not changing signs to be breakable by water. The two are completely unrelated.

[BinoAl]

I'd really like him to add some more advanced behaviors for endermen. They're still kind of a half-baked idea.

Actually, I think they're too complex as it is. It's too vast of a difference between mobs. Granted, we need more enemy complexity/variety, but focusing every cool idea on 1 mob is not the way to go. Adding more depth to every mob would be a much better choice, imo

[gftweek]

Ooh, this is going to piss of a lot of people who play vMC.

As stated, most vanilla mobtrap designs rely on mobs thinking signs are full blocks so they just walk right over them and fall to their doom.

Also if the detection of halfsteps is fixed, this implies that mobs may be able to spawn on half blocks, destroying the safety many have achieved by using half block floors without relying on torch spam.

Not sure what the water change means, does this mean they won't drown in 2 block deep water, or wont attempt to swim?

All mobs can already climb ladders, they just don't pathfind up them, so it's rare for it to occur, trap doors are going to become compulsory now.

[johnt]

I'm not sure how I feel about smart zombies. I think maybe they should have a limited range for pathfinding. I'm okay with smart endermen and skellies, though.

[MoRmEnGiL]

Zombies are the most harmless mob really, I'd be very glad if only they got smarter pathfinding. Creepers with this pathfinding will be almost impossible to take on en masse a'la super hostile, and expect many of nasty surprises in your survival worlds too.
And skeletons that could maneuver around to get a shot at you from other angles would make taking cover a nightmare.

I wouldn't worry about halfsteps though, my guess is they wouldn't mess with the spawn code this heavily as this would cause immense problems to way too many people.

[xbitx]

If they could make Zombies actually try to "open"/break down doors, I'd be all over that. But that's about all the good AI I'd like them to have. The enhanced AI they're getting now, plus the ability to break down doors is way more than enough for Zombies. And honestly signs as a mob trap never really made sense to me. The entire game is about creation, and we here at BTW like a good challenge. Trapdoors + lava underneath + detector block = dead zombies/skeletons/creepers. And a switch in your house to deactivate the detectors so you don't accidently trigger one would be a good addition. (I might just make that for the hell of it, haha).

I feel like each NPC should get their own AI, so I'm hoping they flesh it out that way.

Also, just a little note, maybe the "detection" of fences and half blocks just means they won't jump when there's a half block. And this may specifically be for animals, so I'm kind of hoping that'll be the case, because I'm getting really annoyed at animals jumping when caged.

[RaustBlackDragon]

It's occurred to me that I haven't heard flowerchild say a WORD about the new AI, maybe I just haven't seen the right threads. I'd be curious as to what he thinks about this.

[FlowerChild]

It's occurred to me that I haven't heard flowerchild say a WORD about the new AI, maybe I just haven't seen the right threads. I'd be curious as to what he thinks about this.

I'm adapting a "wait and see" attitude. Nothing more to say really.

[RaustBlackDragon]

It's occurred to me that I haven't heard flowerchild say a WORD about the new AI, maybe I just haven't seen the right threads. I'd be curious as to what he thinks about this.

I'm adapting a "wait and see" attitude. Nothing more to say really.

Fair enough :)

[RaustBlackDragon]

God damn! Has anybody else seen this video? Mute it if you must, the visuals are what matter:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ef6YkO_jsDY

[BinoAl]

God damn! Has anybody else seen this video? Mute it if you must, the visuals are what matter:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ef6YkO_jsDY

I'll admit, that's pretty cool.

[Pseudosavior]

God damn! Has anybody else seen this video? Mute it if you must, the visuals are what matter:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ef6YkO_jsDY

(Watched it without sound due to the accent)

Regardless of the people involved, the pathfinding is actually pretty nice. Seems the new guy actually did quite some work already. Nice to have him on board for Mojang. :)

[Battlecat]

That's a distinct improvement and a good sign!

[Stormweaver]

God damn! Has anybody else seen this video? Mute it if you must, the visuals are what matter:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ef6YkO_jsDY

It looks like it'd be really impressive if it wasn't lagging like a bitch :)

I need to sit and play with it at some point. One thing I am curious about is whether the crowding behaviour is any better - it's all well and good to see one wolf not jump in lava, but would the same happen with 3 or 4? In my experience, vannilla wolves are kinda useless at killing things that can fight back unless they're in small packs.

[Robilar]

Not bad (also watched without sound). I think if this gets applied to something like zombie or skeleton AI then there may be a chance to open up new possibilities with mob traps, depending on how they detect BTW blocks. You may be able to lead them straight into a wall of saws directly from the spawn room simply by standing nearby. Then again, it may also break certain traps, since it may avoid that hole in my drop trap like the plague (unless, of course, the pathfinding sees at as a normal block).

(If I'm not coherent, consider me drunk; easiest explanation.)

[Schmitty]

The wolf avoided the lava.....

IT AVOIDED THE LAVA!!!

This is a significant step forward.

[FlowerChild]

The wolf avoided the lava.....

IT AVOIDED THE LAVA!!!

This is a significant step forward.

Depends if you wanted cooked wolf-chops or not.

[Schmitty]

The wolf avoided the lava.....

IT AVOIDED THE LAVA!!!

This is a significant step forward.

Depends if you wanted cooked wolf-chops or not.

I would never kill a wolf. That is just silly and in-humane.

Instead, I will lock them in a dark, isolated room and feed them rotten flesh via machine.