Quick HCB question

[Sarelth]

I was wandering around my world when I suddenly had the urge to cook some stone in large quantities. I thought the best way to do this would be a Lava bucket since you can get a full stack on one bucket. I proceeded to a local lava pool and found out that lava is no longer collectable with a bucket, in fact it was kind of painful.

So here is the question, How do we move Lava now, if at all?

[TheYaMeZ]

So here is the question, How do we move Lava now, if at all?

You don't, lava was way to powerful a fuel source anyway.
For large amounts of stone, either use your coal or you can cook them up in a stoked crucible which uses no fuel.

[Sarelth]

Makes sense. guess i should have just gone to bed and thought about it in the morning when I had a good rest. Thanks.

But how do we make Smooth stone Generators now?

[Caboose]

With Hardcore Buckets mode enabled, you can only move lava by digging aqueducts(Taking a step down every three blocks from the source.), and you cannot raise them up with screw pumps.

In order to make say, a smooth stone generator, or a cracked stone brick generator, you'd have to find a lava source and route it from there.

[jorgebonafe]

Makes sense. guess i should have just gone to bed and thought about it in the morning when I had a good rest. Thanks.

But how do we make Smooth stone Generators now?

Same way as before. The difference is that you can't pick up/place lava, so you have to use existing sources.

[Donzaffi]

what makes it way more enjoyable, I have found one naturally cobblegenerator and put a BD there. I think FC has said somehting about he not likeing cobblegenerators.

[TheAnarchitect]

If I understood the argument correctly, the problem with cobble generators is that cobble is the most common byproduct of mining. And anything that disincentivizes mining, in MINECRAFT, is a bad thing.

[SterlingRed]

Personally I've never needed a cobblestone generator. I have more than enough of it as a biproduct of mining to meet all my building needs including a mob trap. I can see why you would want one for full automation of things like mossy cobble farms, but manually tossing in a few stacks now and then is so easy, its not worth the time to build one.

[DaveYanakov]

It's not that he doesn't like cobblegenerators, he just avoids doing things that give stone and cobble value since generators give you infinite amounts for free.

By the time you can build an automated cobble generator, there is no longer any incentive to mine for stone. Generators do not in any way remove any incentive for mining since that's still where you get your lapis and diamonds. Personally, I can't stand mining so I avoid doing it at any cost but having a set of generators has not reduced the amount of time I spend underground at all. It just means I have enough stone to build proper walls.

[FlowerChild]

No, I don't like cobble-generators :)

Remember that article awhile back about what made MC brilliant, where the guy said that in building his giant golden phallus he felt a sense of accomplishment in knowing that he had to work like a dog for it?

This is why cobble generators are a bad idea. They basically result in free and infinite resources that are available through other means, and turn an otherwise useful byproduct of your other in-game activities (like mining) into total trash.

I do not buy arguments of "it's just an aesthetic block" in relation to aesthetic features being super-cheap or free. "Working" for your materials is a big part of what makes MC fun whether the end result is aesthetic or functional.

Cobble Generators actually occupy a special place on my todo list, and it's only a matter of time before I do something to nerf or eliminate them entirely.

[Graphite]

I'm somewhat on the fence regarding cobble- and smoothstone generators. I built four mob-towers in my current world on a vanilla server, while waiting for FC to finish the SMP version of BtW. As such, I dug out every single stone block in there. A quick back-of-the-envelope calculation tells me I have about 3.6 km2 of spawning area in them. Adding on the stone on the outside, I'd say I used well over 4.5k stone blocks. I recall that at some point I had so many of the other ores and resources, that I just went down to mine out the cobble in between my tunnels and well... it wasn't a particularly exciting activity. As such I do have a tendency to make a smoothstone generator in my worlds nowadays so I don't have to go out to explicitly dig up cobble just to build my stuff.

On the other hand, I realise that not having a generator would likely end up with me building some huge underground vaults or something, so I don't think I'll be rage-quitting if they were to be disabled. I'll have to figure out something to do with them, though, as so far they've always ended up large, pretty rooms with no function whatsoever >.>

[odranoel]

Cobble Generators actually occupy a special place on my todo list, and it's only a matter of time before I do something to nerf or eliminate them entirely.

good to know. i started a new world last night (first time playing with HCB enabled) and was debating with my self as to what the official opinion of cobble generators was. at first i said to my self, well cobble is the most common thing in the game besides dirt, so it makes sense to have unlimited quantities of at least the most basic building material.

but then i started really thinking about it, or more importantly my previous world, and all the reasons i had for starting a new world. ( got tired of my seed, lots of "ruin's" from the BTB days (i had this other world for a while now) i wanted to try HC buckets, and i have a very large amount of previously very easily obtainable yet powerful items (such as arrows and gun powder)) and also HOW i had played my previous world. one change i noticed was when i discovered coble generators.

previous to the generator, cobble stone was a lot more "sacred" per say. it was potential stone bricks! of which i cannot ever have enough. i would go out of my way to have chests full of it and a large smelting/crucible room. when id mine id always collect it all just as if it were diamonds, and make storage areas in my mines. all things i stopped doing once i made the cobble stone generator.

once i remembered that, i realized i didnt want to make a cobble generator, as it was robbing me of valuable gameplay elements. (something im learning to identify better since the HC bedding paradigm) not only that it stopped me from discovery others! such as really having a use for mining charges (never really use them unless i wanna level a mountain or something, which is like never, and even then tnt (erhm powder keg :p ) is better )

TL;DR. all in all its good to know cobble generators will be going soon, as they just rob you of valuable gameplay elements.

to the OP, while i advise you simply do not create one at all, however to answer your question, once you find lava make a channel (either by digger or with pumps) from a nearby water source to it. so instead of bringing the lava to the water like normal, you bring the water to the lava. but again iv used cobble generators before and i wish i hadn't. cobble just like everything else is a valuable resource. its a mistake to think its so abundant it should be free.

[FlowerChild]

Well, keep in mind that if I remove cobble gen, it's likely to replace it with something else.

For example, you theoretically could build a massive reed farm and get unlimited wicker blocks out of it in order to build your mob trap, and I've got no issue with that.

Remember my primary problem with cobble gens is that it provides infinite access to something which you'd normally acquire through other means, not that it gives you an infinite resource to begin with.

If the same generator provided you with some kind of volcanic rock with its own properties and aesthetics, that was only obtainable through those means, then I wouldn't be having an issue with it. On the contrary, I'd probably be building my first in-game "cobble" generator, whereas in close to two years of play, I've never wanted to build one myself because it just felt wrong.

[Sarudak]

If the same generator provided you with some kind of volcanic rock with its own properties and aesthetics, that was only obtainable through those means, then I wouldn't be having an issue with it.

Please do this! :)

[FlowerChild]

Please do this! :)

Hehe...I likely will, it's all just a matter of time. This is a change to a fairly fundamental aspect of gameplay and automation that many people are extremely habituated to. As such, I want to make sure I give it enough time to percolate through my own thought process, and that I make sure to get it just right so that it comes across more as "woohoo! Cobble gens are now properly integrated into the game!" rather than "ACK! HE KILLED COBBLE GENS!" ;)

There's good potential here to make them an interesting part of a tech tree rather than just an exploity way to get infinite cobble.

Previously I would have also waited for the extended blockID's but with my recent decision to start modifying Block.class, it gives me a lot more flexibility in using metadata for new simple block types. You'll notice the last release contained an absolute shit-ton of new aesthetic blocks, whereas I think I only consumed 3 new blockIDs. There's actually a lot more of them coming in the next couple of releases that won't consume any more either, as I laid a lot of coding groundwork there that I've yet to fully exploit.

[Sarudak]

Sweet man I'm really excited! Also once you obliterate cobble gens it opens up the potential for extracting some kind of secondary resources from cobble like leeching trace minerals with acid or some such thing. Like when we get to nuclear energy or something... XD

[odranoel]

Like when we get to nuclear energy or something... XD

*head explodes*

[Rianaru]

Sweet man I'm really excited! Also once you obliterate cobble gens it opens up the potential for extracting some kind of secondary resources from cobble like leeching trace minerals with acid or some such thing. Like when we get to nuclear energy or something... XD

Just when I thought chemistry left my life...

[DaveYanakov]

Eh, you still have to excavate an entire continent or pave over the entire nether in order to build that giant phallus out of anything other than cobblestone. For me all they do is simplify the storage issues of cobble in quantities sufficient for large build and make it easier to set up a cobble blaster for gravel/sand production. You need to be at the Block Dispenser tech level to make use of them in the first place since sitting there picking away manually is even more tedious than mining it normally. Yes they're kind of wonky how they can create solid matter from nothing but we already have infinite cobble available via various methods, generators are simply the only ones that let us get on with something else at the same time.

This only applies to valueless stone and cobble, mind you. If they ever become a resource that isn't just a block with a different texture, I would certainly hope that generator behavior be nixed. Since they're likely getting nixed in any case, it won't be the end of the world, I'll just need to make a lot more trips back and forth to storage and build an extra thirty chests or so to keep it tidy.

[Rianaru]

I was always of the opinion that having to spend time manually getting cobble was part of the experience and that it had immense value as a building material(seeing as how miles of uncovered machinery might look strange in minecraft). Once processed into something with a better texture of course

[FlowerChild]

Yeah, I feel the same way. As I mentioned above, I don't believe there is any such thing as *just* an aesthetic block, and in the case of cobble, there's a whole range of aesthetic blocks that are dependent on them, which are all devalued through the use of cobble-gens.

I don't think it's quite the throwaway material many people believe it to be, or at least it shouldn't be. Instead it's a subtle motivation towards mining and other forms of construction that involve digging.

To give you an example, with my recent changes to F3 and beds, at one point I mentioned building tunnels between bases being the way I used to do things to combine mining with establishing "roads" between all of them. Now, doing something like that is a hell of a lot more fun if you feel like you're getting something useful out of the process which you can then use in your other projects, instead of just stacks of material you're getting for nothing elsewhere.

That's probably why cobble-gens have been on my mind as of late. With recent changes I've been considering the old way I used to play, and how it was way more fun, more and more frequently. Yes, cobble is the most common material in the game and that's fine, but there's a huge difference between extremely common and infinitely available in terms of player satisfaction.

Once again though, this isn't a question of realism or what have you for me. I'm perfectly fine with the cobble-gen *mechanic*. What I'm not fine with is the subtle impact that it currently has on the rest of the game.

[Stormweaver]

While I agree in a lot of ways about cobble gens, at the same time the few uses within mechanisms they have (mossy cobblestone, gravel blasters) make them far more satisfying to use than throwing stacks of cobble into an 'Input' dispenser.

I'd imagine one way to get the best of both worlds would be to do a 'mossy stone brick' with it all; a block that will convert to normal stone/normal cobblestone if left in contact with the water and lava for a time, as it would drastically slow down (and complicate) such mechanisms without removing the possibility of them, while heavily buffing the value of mined stone. On the other hand, this is a little too close to a suggestion and now I feel really bad for saying it >.>

The possibility of a future shiny black rock sounds nice though.

[PatriotBob]

I recall my first multiplayer experience with minecraft. A friend and I build a castle into a cliff about 500m from spawn, and died a ridiculous amount, only to die running back. But fought tooth and nail to secure that place. It ended in with me single handedly mining out the lowest 12 layers in a km squared area.

Made the center into a great hall with storage and a rail system using powered carts to take goods to/from the surface. I was a sight to see....

So yeah anything to incentivize more of that, I'm all for that.

[devaking]

I was wandering around my world when I suddenly had the urge to cook some stone in large quantities. I thought the best way to do this would be a Lava bucket since you can get a full stack on one bucket. I proceeded to a local lava pool and found out that lava is no longer collectable with a bucket, in fact it was kind of painful.

So here is the question, How do we move Lava now, if at all?

just like OP said, how do we move lava... i mean the pump wont move it. and before i get a generator comments this is for my nether base. i thouth with all the HCB and buyo that i could finaly use lava in the nether like i use water in the overworld. guess not. but it is a good way to transport mobs. so my question is. how can i manage this if im using HCB?

[Caboose]

I was wandering around my world when I suddenly had the urge to cook some stone in large quantities. I thought the best way to do this would be a Lava bucket since you can get a full stack on one bucket. I proceeded to a local lava pool and found out that lava is no longer collectable with a bucket, in fact it was kind of painful.

So here is the question, How do we move Lava now, if at all?

just like OP said, how do we move lava... i mean the pump wont move it. and before i get a generator comments this is for my nether base. i thouth with all the HCB and buyo that i could finaly use lava in the nether like i use water in the overworld. guess not. but it is a good way to transport mobs. so my question is. how can i manage this if im using HCB?

I think your best bet would be building your mob trap under a lava lake, and sourcing your lava from above.