StarCitizen, A new Foray into the Space Sim Genre

[Nexus Trimean]

Chris Roberts, the Developer and creative mind behind the wing commander, and Freelancer (before the micrsoft take over) Is comming back to the gaming world with Star citizen, and is looking for crowd funding. The space sim genre has been pretty barren for a long time, but maybe this is the shot in the arm it needs. The project is very ambitious, I hope they can deliver.

Website is here http://www.robertsspaceindustries.com/ the top movie is Roberts pitch, and if you interested goes into fairly good detail about what he want to do with the game, the into is a bit cheesy, but it still hits all the high points. If its something you think is worth supporting please do and tell your friends. The concepts they are working from remind me a lot of the way flower child goes about modding. Making game play challenging and fun, and feel more grounded in the real world than in handwavium.

[FlowerChild]

Hehe...me and Chris are actually diametrically opposed when it comes to game design. He's a great guy, and I like him a lot (I know him personally), but I don't think either of us would be happy with direct comparisons being drawn between our design styles ;)

[Nexus Trimean]

Well my knowledge of him is based on an 11 minute video that talks a lot about physics and how things work in space, I have a picture of you doing the same thing were you going to be making a space sim. I apologize, no offense was meant.

[FlowerChild]

No offense taken man. As I said, I like the guy, AND I like his games. I'm very much looking forward to playing his new one, and was very happy to see the news that he's gotten back into games.

Our approach is just fundamentally different to designing games as he's more focused on big budget, pushing technology to the absolute current maximum, and storytelling, while I'm more focused on small easily managed projects, design driven (rather than technology driven) development, bang for the buck, and letting players tell their own narrative.

He's always wanted to work in film (and has had quite some success in that area), and that shows in his extreme focus on production values, story-telling, and attention to detail. I've always been about games and games alone, and unless detail has a direct impact on gameplay, I generally consider it extraneous.

Those are largely philosophical differences, and I wouldn't say either is wrong as I definitely enjoy the end result that he produces. We just have very different approaches to these kinds of things, and I know so through first hand experience with the guy.

I really want to play his new game, but I'd never want to work on developing it if that makes sense. I'd honestly just probably make it worse anyways because our approaches are so different.

[FlowerChild]

Actually, I think an easy way to sum up these differences is to say that Chris would never want to work on a title like Minecraft because of the huge sacrifices made in terms of visual fidelity for the sake of gameplay, while I would never want to work on one of his titles because I wouldn't want to devote huge amounts of time to details like independently articulated turrets that have minimal impact on gameplay.

Meanwhile, both Minecraft and Freelancer were great games despite this.

[Nexus Trimean]

Actually, I think an easy way to sum up these differences is to say that Chris would never want to work on a title like Minecraft because of the huge sacrifices made in terms of visual fidelity for the sake of gameplay, while I would never want to work on one of his titles because I wouldn't want to devote huge amounts of time to details like independently articulated turrets that have minimal impact on gameplay.

Meanwhile, both Minecraft and Freelancer were great games despite this.

That seems like a an apt comparison. If they deliver on half the stuff promised, it will be a good game, more than that and it should be awesome.

[abzu93]

I was just having a discussion about this with a friend of mine today. I actually worked on two of Chris's projects -- WC3 and WC4. I've also played every game he's ever made. While he does have an eye for dazzle and cinema, my opinion is good storytelling hasn't really been his forte. This is unfortunate, because storytelling has been a large part of his "Commander" series. In the past, they have been drab, wholly predictable, and trite; like a looped rerun of Top Gun dressed in different clothing.

On the other hand, I dug playing Privateer, Privateer 2, Freelancer, and Starlancer -- But really, X2 and X3 outdid all these without the eye candy.

I assume like everyone he has grown as a designer and producer, and has a better idea what makes a great game. I expect good things from this release, and have high hopes that includes less cheese, and more meat.

[MoRmEnGiL]

Thank god for design style differences though, it benefits everyone. Makers have more room in the market and gamers have a bigger selection :P

Personally I was never a fan of wing commander, or simulation games in general (other than mechwarrior that is), but I can appreciate the experience cinematic/narrative based games offer even if I dislike the genre of a particular title.

For instance, I love the Gabriel knight or Monkey Island series, even though I generally strongly dislike the adventure genre :P

Funny story: When the first rear time strategy games became mainstream, circa command and conquer 1 and warcraft 1, I was intrigued and decided to give those Dune spiritual successors a go. I soon realised that a) I suck at rts games, b)I don't really enjoy them much, being a TBS fanboy since time immemorial. When starcraft came out though, I was so amazed by the narrative and storyline and general presentation, that I played on just to see what's coming next. If that is not success I dunno what is.

Of course the problem with that is, the more awesome narratives you experience, the harder it is to be impressed. The only game that managed to impress me with it's narrative in the last 5-6 years (and the gameplay was pretty ace too!) was none other than Bioshock.

[DaveYanakov]

As indicated in the past, I am a massive fan of Chris Roberts' games. That said, while I like the story well enough, it's the unscripted events and the untapped potential of his 'verse that kept me hooked. The most significant moment I've ever had was playing Prophecy when a female NPC pilot rammed the turret of a destroyer that was about to kill me. It has been a decade and a half since that day and I can still remember her most likely accidental glitch sacrifice in perfect clarity. The fact that during my first playthrough of the game I didn't have any NPC KIAs at that point confirmed for me that Roberts never wrote that into the game. It just happened. It also never would have happened if he wasn't so keen on packing as much detail as possible into a game.

tl;dr Chris Roberts is one of the great designers who can design mechanics that result in the exact aesthetic he wants to deliver to his players. His games aren't for everyone but they are usually very solid examples of the craft.

And if I had to compare FC to any other designer, it would probably fall to the team over at CCP. Their motto of 'Harden the fuck up' and determination to deliver a good game regardless of nerf complaints just fits. The dark viking humor is a nice bonus.

[MoRmEnGiL]

And if I had to compare FC to any other designer, it would probably fall to the team over at CCP. Their motto of 'Harden the fuck up' and determination to deliver a good game regardless of nerf complaints just fits. The dark viking humor is a nice bonus.

Do you really think CCP has FC's knack for balance though? :P

[DaveYanakov]

When you consider that they have to work as a team of dozens of people rather than one person who has the entire project internalized and that the system in question is orders of magintude more complex...

Yes. I think they do a damned good job of keeping on top of balance.

And this sort of discussion is not why I made the comparison.

[FlowerChild]

Sorry: what's CCP?

[mneMoose]

CCP are the developers/publishers of Eve Online.

[FlowerChild]

CCP are the developers/publishers of Eve Online.

Ah...gotcha. I didn't last through the free trial of that game due to constantly flying through planets :)

[Nexus Trimean]

I got into EVE and was Supremely disappointed when i couldn't push W to make my ship go forward. I stuck around for 2-3 months, but it never really hooked me. My favorite game in the genre is the Escape Velocity series (Especially Nova), i never got to play wing commander or any of its siblings, but I'm Always looking for good sci-fi, Mechwarrior Online Scratches my Giant Robot Itch, I'm hoping this will cover the space combat bit well, and i will have a reliable source of science fiction fun.

[Rianaru]

I could never get into EVE because I didn't have the time to get used the levels of complexity, so maybe this will be simpler and I can get into it :D

[abzu93]

I could never get into EVE because I didn't have the time to get used the levels of complexity, so maybe this will be simpler and I can get into it :D

I played Eve for about six months. From reading the FAQ on StarCitizen, it doesn't seem it will be anything like Eve Online. It seems actually more like Freelancer, which was an awesome title.

[aeper]

Eve Online is more of a game of Space Chess over months.. Not so good for most people.

[FlowerChild]

Eve Online is more of a game of Space Chess over months.. Not so good for most people.

Space Chess where you can fly through planets...

[PatriotBob]

Hehe...me and Chris are actually diametrically opposed when it comes to game design. He's a great guy, and I like him a lot (I know him personally), but I don't think either of us would be happy with direct comparisons being drawn between our design styles ;)

Wha.... How... Do you just know everyone?
How did you get to know all these people? TELL ME NOW!

I have a hard enough time finding anyone who can program worth anything, let alone any other skill set useful to game development.

[FlowerChild]

Wha.... How... Do you just know everyone?
How did you get to know all these people? TELL ME NOW!

15 years in the game industry in multiple countries does that man. I think I've pretty much at least met all my gaming heroes (Notch excluded), had beers with most of them, worked with a number, and gotten to know a handful on a personal level.

So yeah, no real quick solution for me to propose. I largely devoted my life to gaming and it just happened along the way :)

[PatriotBob]

Wha.... How... Do you just know everyone?
How did you get to know all these people? TELL ME NOW!

15 years in the game industry in multiple countries does that man. I think I've pretty much at least met all my gaming heroes (Notch excluded), had beers with most of them, worked with a number, and gotten to know a handful on a personal level.

So yeah, no real quick solution for me to propose. I largely devoted my life to gaming and it just happened along the way :)

Yeah it's getting that first step in that's the trick I'm noticing... All this C++ work is wasted spending my 9-5 writing silly .NET web apps...

Keep on coding I guess... :)
Your design is amazing by the way. Keep on doing it, it's solid work.

[FlowerChild]

Yeah it's getting that first step in that's the trick I'm noticing... All this C++ work is wasted spending my 9-5 writing silly .NET web apps...

The first step is not actually that bad. You just have to go for it man. It's the endless all-nighters afterwards that is the real test.

[PatriotBob]

It's the endless all-nighters afterwards that is the real test.

Heh. Gee... haven't done that before.
Thanks for the pointers, time to touch up my game engine...

[abzu93]

It's the endless all-nighters afterwards that is the real test.

Furiously +1'ing this