Integrating black dye into the tech tree

[Deva]

One thing which really annoys me about minecraft is the need to kill mass amounts of squids (which at times are frustrating to find) to make a proper carpet for my living room (without cheating) and was trying to think of a way to integrate it into the tech tree and the best way I can think of logically is to include a crafted dye into the tech tree called "india ink" (nice to use my background for something) which is the combination of soot (coal dust could be used or ideally you could make soot appear above furnaces/stoked hibachis), a binding agent (glue could be used) and water. India ink is also sold as bars and then you add water to activate them which could be useful in this mod by making the bars craft-able then you need to put the bar into an urn or some holder then immerse the whole thing in water to finish the process. I feel like this would fit in with the progression of the tech in this mod as it is not a very easy thing to produce therefore not making squids entirely useless at the beginning but eventually you will gain soot (ideally) as a natural by-produce of crafting the glue necessary for the dye.

India ink has some further uses (I am not sure if they are true I checked wikipedia to see what else it could be used for) such as: A piece of paper impregnated with India ink serves as a grid leak resistor in some tube radio circuits.

[FlowerChild]

The problem I'd have with something like this is that it would devalue mob-trap construction, which is actually something I'm trying to avoid at present.

If anything, I think I'm leaning more towards increasing their value with my design choices.

[Zhil]

The problem I'd have with something like this is that it would devalue mob-trap construction, which is actually something I'm trying to avoid at present.

If anything, I think I'm leaning more towards increasing their value with my design choices.

Squids are not breedable and not farmable though

[FlowerChild]

Squids are not breedable and not farmable though

Seriously? Are we talking a change in 1.0, because basically any normal mob-trap I build that uses water-flow produces a pretty steady output of squid bits.

[Stormweaver]

The problem I'd have with something like this is that it would devalue mob-trap construction, which is actually something I'm trying to avoid at present.

If anything, I think I'm leaning more towards increasing their value with my design choices.

Squids are not breedable and not farmable though

I dunno, they've still got a reasonably decent chance to spawn in mob traps/reed farm outlet pipes/random lake next to a huge ocean, in 1.8, 1.0 and 1.0 respectively in my experience. While having a little more control over them would be nice (breeding), the cauldron turns any given squid into 16-24 black wool anyways.

[FlowerChild]

Yeah, in my experience, it's more of a problem not getting them to clog up your mob traps than the other way around :)

[Urian]

Squid behavior has been changed. One thing is the standard "mobs don't move unless you're near" which can cause problems with catching them in traps and the second change is that squids can swim upwards now. All LPs I've seen post RC2 that have squid farms have commented they no longer work.

[Deva]

Hmm I am not too adept in building mob traps to build squid farms (I try to use my own imagination as much as possible) but you are right this idea would devalue squid/normal mob traps. But then again most of my contraptions are things like elevators and farms. I havent had the mind to try and build squid traps because most of the time I only find one or two squids in a lake and its never the same area (bad luck I guess)

[DaWhiskers]

Squid behavior has been changed. One thing is the standard "mobs don't move unless you're near" which can cause problems with catching them in traps and the second change is that squids can swim upwards now. All LPs I've seen post RC2 that have squid farms have commented they no longer work.

Add to that that mobs dont move unless you are within 24 blocks, and won't spawn within 24 blocks, means that all mob traps have been effectively made useless :(

[Urian]

Add to that that mobs dont move unless you are within 24 blocks, and won't spawn within 24 blocks, means that all mob traps have been effectively made useless :(

Not useless, they just need a new design. Think a wider mobtrap that you build around rather than a separate structure. This way when you move around you'll be further away than 24 blocks from some sections so mobs spawn and then when you move closer to that section they'll move and fall into your channels for transportation to the grinder.

[MoRmEnGiL]

There is still the insanely expensive mobtrap that uses pistons and pressureplates. Mobs spawn on plates only, and as soon as they spawn pistons push them to your funnel, which directs them to the grinder with either water if you don't want endermen, or piston funnels if you do.

It is really annoying though. Mojang really tries to kill mob grinders with sneaky blows under the radar.

And as for squids, I really see no reliable way to farm them anymore.

Darn, I was planing to use them as decoration, swimming in squid tubes running throughout the walls of my underwater base (when I get around to build it, because things are changing way too fast to try something this big now..)

[FlowerChild]

It is really annoying though. Mojang really tries to kill mob grinders with sneaky blows under the radar.

Agreed. I really don't like this. Obviously they've still got it in for mob-traps, they only temporarily bowed to public pressure by not disabling their drops.

What I don't get is that mob-traps represent pretty-much the only large productive structure you can build in vanilla. I wish they'd get that point.

[Dirdle]

There is still the insanely expensive mobtrap that uses pistons and pressureplates. Mobs spawn on plates only, and as soon as they spawn pistons push them to your funnel, which directs them to the grinder with either water if you don't want endermen, or piston funnels if you do.

How about periodically "flushing" mobs into the channels with water? Reduces cost to one piston/diamond-shaped spawning pad.

[MoRmEnGiL]

There is still the insanely expensive mobtrap that uses pistons and pressureplates. Mobs spawn on plates only, and as soon as they spawn pistons push them to your funnel, which directs them to the grinder with either water if you don't want endermen, or piston funnels if you do.

How about periodically "flushing" mobs into the channels with water? Reduces cost to one piston/diamond-shaped spawning pad.

It would work unless you want endermen ;]

[Mason11987]

It is really annoying though. Mojang really tries to kill mob grinders with sneaky blows under the radar.

Agreed. I really don't like this. Obviously they've still got it in for mob-traps, they only temporarily bowed to public pressure by not disabling their drops.

What I don't get is that mob-traps represent pretty-much the only large productive structure you can build in vanilla. I wish they'd get that point.

If we're going the way of breaking compatibility by leaving forge, perhaps this is a step that can be taken to change gameplay in a way that would suit the game as you've planned it without anyone else restricting you?

Mob traps as they functioned in 1.8 would be a welcome undo in my opinion.

[Brethern]

It is really annoying though. Mojang really tries to kill mob grinders with sneaky blows under the radar.

Agreed. I really don't like this. Obviously they've still got it in for mob-traps, they only temporarily bowed to public pressure by not disabling their drops.

What I don't get is that mob-traps represent pretty-much the only large productive structure you can build in vanilla. I wish they'd get that point.

If we're going the way of breaking compatibility by leaving forge, perhaps this is a step that can be taken to change gameplay in a way that would suit the game as you've planned it without anyone else restricting you?

Mob traps as they functioned in 1.8 would be a welcome undo in my opinion.

could someone fill me in? mob traps won't work in 1.8?

[Zhil]

could someone fill me in? mob traps won't work in 1.8?

Mobs stop moving if you aren't withing a certain range, but if you are within that range, they don't spawn. So yeah, mob traps don't work anymore, unless you move away, move back and repeat, which means you have to stay moving at all times. No more leaving the PC on and coming back to tons of items.

I'd also like to point out the reasons for this change were to fix a large number of mob bugs, so it's not all black/white.

[Brethern]

could someone fill me in? mob traps won't work in 1.8?

Mobs stop moving if you aren't withing a certain range, but if you are within that range, they don't spawn. So yeah, mob traps don't work anymore, unless you move away, move back and repeat, which means you have to stay moving at all times. No more leaving the PC on and coming back to tons of items.

I'd also like to point out the reasons for this change were to fix a large number of mob bugs, so it's not all black/white.

guess it's time for mo creatures.

[Zhil]

guess it's time for mo creatures.

Mo' Creatures doesn't fix this I'm afraid. It might in the future though, but I doubt it, since it'd reintroduce all the bugs that were fixed by the new system.

[DaveYanakov]

could someone fill me in? mob traps won't work in 1.8?

Mobs stop moving if you aren't withing a certain range, but if you are within that range, they don't spawn. So yeah, mob traps don't work anymore, unless you move away, move back and repeat, which means you have to stay moving at all times. No more leaving the PC on and coming back to tons of items.

I'd also like to point out the reasons for this change were to fix a large number of mob bugs, so it's not all black/white.

Or you could just build a rail loop to keep you moving in and out of range all night long...

[Zhil]

Or you could just build a rail loop to keep you moving in and out of range all night long...

Yeah, sure, but at point you are abusing strange spawning rules, it doesn't feel like you're playing a game anymore, it feels like metagaming or even cheating.

Creating piston funnels feels like even less fun. I want my water mob traps!

[MoRmEnGiL]

The problem with piston funnels is the noise and lag, and also the cost.. But you can't use water anyhow unless you make your spawning area not spawn endermen.

[DaveYanakov]

Or you could just build a rail loop to keep you moving in and out of range all night long...

Yeah, sure, but at point you are abusing strange spawning rules, it doesn't feel like you're playing a game anymore, it feels like metagaming or even cheating.

Creating piston funnels feels like even less fun. I want my water mob traps!

Doesn't that also describe mob traps themselves? Infinite mobs coming out of a dark hole and feeding themselves into saw blades is slightly unnatural.

[Zhil]

Doesn't that also describe mob traps themselves? Infinite mobs coming out of a dark hole and feeding themselves into saw blades is slightly unnatural.

Yeah, ideally I only make spawner mob traps. With Seronis' cage traps I can even capture souls to make spawners spawn whatever I want. I guess I'll just be using that from now on.

[Stormweaver]

Doesn't that also describe mob traps themselves? Infinite mobs coming out of a dark hole and feeding themselves into saw blades is slightly unnatural.

The enderdragon doesn't care - randomly sending his minions into darkness near his targets has worked for millennia. Steve appearing and using this against it is a recent thing, which as of yet the giant black insect hasn't really noticed enough to give a damn about yet.

I can't wait until stuff like that actually becomes canon.