Better Than Starting Manned (Flower's WIP KSP mod )

[Taleric]

With the chutes, placement, weight consideration and speed at deployment are huge. I believe I stick to 1 chute per 2 tons but am very apt at eyeballing it now so you will want to check. Also over 1000m/s on initial opening joints can easily pop as well as any speed 500m AGL. Having chutes above the center of mass for orientation while low enought on the frame to avoid joint stress (this is later at radial chutes of course but you can do all sports of sneaky stuff with design) help keep things intact.

[jorgebonafe]

Either the center of mass of your rockets is too high, or the center of lift is too low.

Though...to be honest, you shouldn't expect to be landing much before you get decouplers - after which you'll probably only have a tiny module that the parachute has more than enough drag to get upright.

I do have decouplers... I tried to land once with just the cockpit, but the parachute didn't seem to slow it down enough, and it blew up on contact with the ground. My idea was to leave the cockpit with a single liquid engine to help decelerate when approaching the ground... The center of mass should be on the middle, I think, but still the parachute wont turn it around....

Is there no way to place the parashute on the rear of the rocket, instead of the top?

[Stormweaver]

Is there no way to place the parashute on the rear of the rocket, instead of the top?

Other than using radial ones, the only way would be to attach something to the sides which parachutes go on (like the small radial monopropellant tanks) and stick them there, but it probably wouldn't help much.

You said cockpit? If you're trying to land the unpressurized one you get at T3, it's more a case of luck than skill - the damn thing is made of spun glass.

[jorgebonafe]

You said cockpit? If you're trying to land the unpressurized one you get at T3, it's more a case of luck than skill - the damn thing is made of spun glass.

Well, yeah... I mean, its the only one I have, and I need the crew reports to get science now... I don't think getting lucky like icy did is the way to go (you know, YOLO jump out of the cockpit before the impact)

[FlowerChild]

Well, yeah... I mean, its the only one I have, and I need the crew reports to get science now... I don't think getting lucky like icy did is the way to go (you know, YOLO jump out of the cockpit before the impact)

Hehe...the first cockpit is a fun one. Consider attaching additional boosters to your design atop which you can place more parachutes. Also try to land in the water.

If you haven't unlocked controllable fins, your Kerbal is in for a very rough ride ( "Let's study cockpits before steering!" ). It's doable to get one to survive, but in that case, you may be better off transmitting his crew report and building a monument to his noble sacrifice.

[E.B. Farnham]

You said cockpit? If you're trying to land the unpressurized one you get at T3, it's more a case of luck than skill - the damn thing is made of spun glass.

Well, yeah... I mean, its the only one I have, and I need the crew reports to get science now... I don't think getting lucky like icy did is the way to go (you know, YOLO jump out of the cockpit before the impact)

Do you have all the tier 3 nodes unlocked? If so you could try building something like this.

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That's what I used to get my low altitude crew report. Just fly vertical till you run out of booster, then fly horizontal on the main engine. Then when you're done, make sure you have the SAS turned on, set a 15 degree angle of attack on the nose and hit the chute, it should stay flying level even with the chute out, though it might spaz out a bit and require some pilot input. Once the chute opens it might tear the cockpit off and it should drift down to the ground, probably.

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[Mason11987]

I just got some extra science from FINALLY landing a mun orbitting probe back on kerbin. Do I get additional science for recovering a mun orbiting crew that I safely land back on kerbin?

[FlowerChild]

I just got some extra science from FINALLY landing a mun orbitting probe back on kerbin. Do I get additional science for recovering a mun orbiting crew that I safely land back on kerbin?

I'd like that to be the case, and tried to consider ways of adding that myself (didn't come up with one), but I don't believe KSP differentiates between the science values for returning a vessel, and for returning a manned one.

[E.B. Farnham]

So I have finally sent my first manned mission to the Mun. No landings but I did manage to get crew reports on all 15 biomes there. However my greed to get them all was almost my undoing. I stayed a bit too long and on the return journey I realised my life support was going to give out before I got to Kerbin.

However all was not lost. Using the science transmitted I got "Mainsails" and Rockomax decouplers. Built a ship with a lot of grunt and an empty Mk 2 pod. Flew out and got an intercept. Then carefully pulled up beside my Munar return vehicle and went to transfer the crew across. Then I found out I had no EVA jets.

Only option was some very finicky RCS flying to catch each crewman as he drifted from one ship to the other. It was bloody marvelous. So my brave crew returned safely while their original ship is now forever in high Kerbin orbit or until the Mun hits it.

A limited Munar landing is next on the cards. What disaster will befall that, who knows but I'm looking forward to it.

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My Munar transit vehicle.


Leap of faith time.


Safely Home

I do love this mod. Two thumbs up, great holiday fun.

[Stormweaver]

I'm just taking a break at the Mo to figure out how I'm going to do my manned Lunar landing. While it wouldn't be entirely unfeasible to do it all in the Mk1-2 pod, I really want to try out the lander can and all the fun involved with that. Torn between making some monstrosity that takes it all up in one go, or to put the landercan up there on a separate probe and see if I can figure this whole 'intercept' and 'docking' thing out, as I failed miserably last time. Choices, choices ^.^

[jorgebonafe]

If you haven't unlocked controllable fins, your Kerbal is in for a very rough ride ( "Let's study cockpits before steering!" ). It's doable to get one to survive, but in that case, you may be better off transmitting his crew report and building a monument to his noble sacrifice.

Its funny, I have controllable fins, but they didn't help turn the rocket at landing. Like, they are ok on the launch, to get small corrections, but when the rocket is falling all the fins seem to do is wobble the thing side to side...

I'll try the other suggestions though, adding extra parachutes seem like a good idea...

[FlowerChild]

Its funny, I have controllable fins, but they didn't help turn the rocket at landing. Like, they are ok on the launch, to get small corrections, but when the rocket is falling all the fins seem to do is wobble the thing side to side...

They don't provide enough lift to land with them, no, but what they REALLY help with is steering your rocket on ascent so that you don't wind up killing your kerbal due to lack of air pressure. You can also use them to guide your craft over water for a softer landing.

Here's a very simple design I used at my last go through the tech tree from start:

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You'll notice I have no antenna or batteries there, so I just stored the low altitude crew report for when I recovered the vessel. Granted, I've launched a lot of these now in my various play throughs, so I'm probably more confident than most in my ability to land the thing ;)

[jkievlan]

By the way...I got a great laugh out of Jeb's "sudden epiphany" :)

[icynewyear]

Just wanted to say, after taking the time to read each node before choosing. I'm having a grand ol time.

[PatriotBob]

Just wanted to say, after taking the time to read each node before choosing. I'm having a grand ol time.

I would like to echo this. I've been restarting for each update and it's been coming along nicely. It seems like each tier has a nice hurtle to get over but it not so difficult as to prevent progression.

Really looking forward to the interplanetary progression. :)

[kjbrona]

New Icynewyear

[FlowerChild]

Really looking forward to the interplanetary progression. :)

Well, once you hit tech level 8 or so, it's going to be pretty wide open and consist almost entirely of vanilla parts as I don't want to get too heavily into modding KSP's code to make that part of the progression as full-featured as the rest, especially before the next vanilla update comes out. Once I'm happy with tech level 6, I'll likely be filling out the rest very quickly.

To give you a rough idea, tech level 6 is obviously roughly equivalent to the 60's and the Apollo missions. Tech level 7 will cover the 70's and 80's, basically space shuttle level tech, radial decoupling, Munar rovers to collect surface samples from various biomes (which only occurred in the last couple of Apollo missions in 72), and where probes to other planets will be the way to go (first solar panels will unlock here). Tech level 8 will be roughly equivalent to modern tech with the first real incentive to send manned missions to other planets, which is where the material studies lab only being operated by EVA crew comes in, like I mentioned I wanted to do in the release notes. That unit alone should be enough to get you through the rest of the tech tree by sending manned missions to a handful of planets.

Finally, tech level 9 (which is empty and reserved for mods in vanilla), will be "future tech" covering stuff like nuclear engines (still haven't decided on placement of ion...might be tech level 8), fuel lines, those crazy cubic struts, and probably some indefinite life-support options for long journeys through the cupola module and hitchhiker storage container.

Obviously, my overall focus here was on the early days of space exploration in the 50's and 60's, as I found that's what was severely lacking in the vanilla campaign. As the player's choices broaden to include the entire solar system, I can be a lot less obsessive about throttling the progression.

[dawnraider]

I must say, this is awesome. I am having a lot of fun trying to get stuff to actually function, especially without playing KSP at all previously.

I have on quick thing, though. I just got to having decouplers, and so my bottom stage, which has solid fuel boosters on it, keeps shearing off without me doing anything and tearing through the rest of my rocket, destroying it entirely. What is going on there?

[Stormweaver]

I must say, this is awesome. I am having a lot of fun trying to get stuff to actually function, especially without playing KSP at all previously.

I have on quick thing, though. I just got to having decouplers, and so my bottom stage, which has solid fuel boosters on it, keeps shearing off without me doing anything and tearing through the rest of my rocket, destroying it entirely. What is going on there?

Decouplers can be a bit fragile; especially early game when you don't have any reinforcement in the form of struts. As far as I can tell, if you're accelerating at a high rate and a part above a decoupler wobbles too much, the force breaks it and KSP is terrible for parts clipping through each other.

On the Clipping note; I had a bit of fun yesterday when I found that some engines can actually be put inside their fuel tanks. As a result, I got this rather inspirational screenshot:

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I dream of a day when orange tanks can get themselves into orbit.

[dawnraider]

Ah, ok. That makes sense. I just tried modifying my design to use 4 decouplers (one for each liquid engine above), and apart from 3 solid boosters being slightly wobbly (though not enough to do any harm) it seems to work pretty well. Until I realized at about 30 km that I put my decouplers in the wrong order and jettisoned my entire rocket.

[FlowerChild]

A limited Munar landing is next on the cards. What disaster will befall that, who knows but I'm looking forward to it.

BTW: Thanks for cluing me into that attachment exploit with the FL-R10 RCS tank. Was wondering how you did that when I saw those screenshots :)

Will fix that for the next release.

[E.B. Farnham]

A limited Munar landing is next on the cards. What disaster will befall that, who knows but I'm looking forward to it.

BTW: Thanks for cluing me into that attachment exploit with the FL-R10 RCS tank. Was wondering how you did that when I saw those screenshots :)

Will fix that for the next release.

Ha, no problem man, that's what playtesting is for. I take it you mean that their surface attachable. Yeah quite handy for sticking the battery pots to the side. I'm guessing you want a trade between weight and convenience on the second and third batteries? Or just too early for the utility of laterally mounted extra nodes, at least ones that light? Will have to redesign my Munar orbiter I think.

Just finished my first Mun landing, for some reason I assumed I'd need to bring the landers soil sample back in a physical sense so I ended up with a lander stuck to the top of the command pod during reentry. Not all of it made it. Didn't occur to be that I could transmit the sample. Doh.

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Oh also I noted that the Mk 1-2 Command pod doesn't have enough life support to survive a shallow reentry. Anything over about 28 - 30km, I think it was and the buggers wouldn't make it down. I've started to stick some bats on the pod just to give it a little bit more of a safety margin. Just wondering is that by design?

[FlowerChild]

Ha, no problem man, that's what playtesting is for. I take it you mean that their surface attachable. Yeah quite handy for sticking the battery pots to the side. I'm guessing you want a trade between weight and convenience on the second and third batteries? Or just too early for the utility of laterally mounted extra nodes, at least ones that light? Will have to redesign my Munar orbiter I think.

Both, but mainly the latter. Lightweight (relatively) surface attachment points allow for a whole range of exploits that otherwise break the tech progression, especially before radial decouplers are unlocked (because they could conceivably be used for that as well).

Just finished my first Mun landing,

Gratz! :)

for some reason I assumed I'd need to bring the landers soil sample back in a physical sense so I ended up with a lander stuck to the top of the command pod during reentry. Not all of it made it. Didn't occur to be that I could transmit the sample. Doh.

Yeah, as I mentioned in the release notes, I really wanted surface samples to be return to Kerbin, but am waiting on the next vanilla release for that.

Oh also I noted that the Mk 1-2 Command pod doesn't have enough life support to survive a shallow reentry. Anything over about 28 - 30km, I think it was and the buggers wouldn't make it down. I've started to stick some bats on the pod just to give it a little bit more of a safety margin. Just wondering is that by design?

Nope, not really, and I can certainly up it a bit since I did the same for the Mk1. I've done it before without though, so you sure you didn't forget to transfer power to the pod or something? At the same time, at over 30Km I suspect you're also risking skipping out of the atmosphere on a return from the Mun.

I'm tweaking that part of the tech tree right now (tech 6 manned launches Mk1-2), so I'll run some tests.

[jorgebonafe]

Thanks, FC, the water landing worked like a charm :)

I just got my first probe into stable orbit! Yey!

Didn't get me any science though... Its just... there... circling Kerbal forever....

Although that was pretty fun, I'm getting a "what now?" kinda feeling........

[Stormweaver]

I admit, I've been using those side mounted monopropellant tanks as well; first few times I tried using them they refused to work any way other than side mounted so I figured it was the way it was meant to be -.-

Ah well. I'm nipping at the heels of T7 atm, what with the opportunity to buy solar panels and the 'I have more torque than a dedicated reaction wheel' Ultralight-wieght probe core. It's been quite the ride, especially with the tech needed for a Mun landing (which I'm yet to succeed in) always feeling like you need one more node to do it :p

Now to re-learn aerodynamics and build a working jet again.

@Jorge; Do it again, but this time with Science!

...seriously. There's a lot of science to be had once you can hit orbit, which unlocks a lot of new toys to play with.