Losing the Game

[gaga654]

The longer you stay in an area, the harder it gets to survive as resources are depleted and animals are killed by zombies and spiders. This got me to thinking, would it be possible to have your world so resource-depleted that you cannot accomplish anything? The primary thing that I am thinking of is animals; suppose that you, together with the zombies and spiders, managed to kill all of them in a sizeable area without you ever getting much food, due to dying every couple days, say. I imagine this would lead to a world where you would spawn, try to make your way to some animals for food, only to die before you can find any.

I don't know if it would be possible, or likely, to get a world into this state, but it is something interesting to think about. You would have essentially "lost" minecraft, a word which is not usually associated with this game and certainly isn't possible in vanilla.

[DNoved1]

Reading this thread's title made me lose the game ;_;

[dawnraider]

I think technically, yes, it would be possible, but the chances of totally depleting everything within a 2k+ radius of spawn are next to nil.

And damnit, DNoved1! Now I lost it! I was going strong for like 3 years or more!

[Zhil]

It actually happens a lot on SMP servers :/

Luckily, by that point, you should have at least one established base. After respawning over and over you'll end up there

[FlowerChild]

Yup, I have no issue with game over states. When I made these changes it was with the knowledge that SMP servers in particular could theoretically become incapable of sustaining life, but with the decision to not minimize the SSP experience (which is and always has been my focus) in order to accommodate that.

Also remember that fishing never really depletes (unless you fill in all the oceans with cement or something), so that provides a worst case scenario backup method of obtaining food when all else fails.

But yeah, if you or other players are utterly irresponsible with your world for an extended period, things will definitely go south, and I'm perfectly cool with that. In fact, I consider it in accordance with many of the themes in BTW.

[Mud]

When I pick a place to settle, I dig 2x2x2 pits nearby, push cows/pigs/sheep into them, stick a torch in there then seal it up with an unnatural material like planks or cobble. This ensures at least 2 of each animal survive long enough for me to develop enough to domesticate them, and I kill the remaining animals for meat before the zombies can.

There's also always fish.

[Six]

Yeah, one aspect people have trouble grasping for this is just how large the HC spawn range is. As an example, the official server has been running for.. a little over a year now, and I still get HC spawns on it with animals around.

This query on Wolfram Alpha should give you a bit more of an idea of the size of it. Each of those circles represents an area around the player in which mobs don't instantly despawn. You would need to spend at least 1 night in each of those, most often more than that, to have most of the animals in that area killed. And even then, you get animals that find safety ledges or other clever hiding places.

This does raise the question though, could it be possible to survive with no animals in the HC spawn area? One of the main things as people have mentioned is fish, which does require you to kill a spider, find and cook one iron and get consistent bait. The iron would be the trickiest part of that, but the rest could be done fairly easily, and even easier if you find some cactus to put above your hole in the ground to kite spiders onto during the night.

[gaga654]

Yup, I have no issue with game over states. When I made these changes it was with the knowledge that SMP servers in particular could theoretically become incapable of sustaining life, but with the decision to not minimize the SSP experience (which is and always has been my focus) in order to accommodate that.

Also remember that fishing never really depletes (unless you fill in all the oceans with cement or something), so that provides a worst case scenario backup method of obtaining food when all else fails.

But yeah, if you or other players are utterly irresponsible with your world for an extended period, things will definitely go south, and I'm perfectly cool with that. In fact, I consider it in accordance with many of the themes in BTW.

Yeah, I don't have a problem with this either, especially, as many have said, that it would not be easy to get yourself into a truly losing position. It is mildly disconcerting at first, but then... so are many other things about BTW, until you realize that they are just part of the charm. It's something that makes BTW really unique and different.

As for surviving in a dead world, well, I have been following this mod for quite a while now but haven't tried playing it with all the hardcore changes until just the last couple of weeks, and I'm having enough trouble surviving as is :P

[Daisjun]

Yeah, one aspect people have trouble grasping for this is just how large the HC spawn range is. As an example, the official server has been running for.. a little over a year now, and I still get HC spawns on it with animals around.

This query on Wolfram Alpha should give you a bit more of an idea of the size of it. Each of those circles represents an area around the player in which mobs don't instantly despawn. You would need to spend at least 1 night in each of those, most often more than that, to have most of the animals in that area killed. And even then, you get animals that find safety ledges or other clever hiding places.

This does raise the question though, could it be possible to survive with no animals in the HC spawn area? One of the main things as people have mentioned is fish, which does require you to kill a spider, find and cook one iron and get consistent bait. The iron would be the trickiest part of that, but the rest could be done fairly easily, and even easier if you find some cactus to put above your hole in the ground to kite spiders onto during the night.

Keep in mind though that mobs won't spawn in deserts, rivers or oceans and jungles are pretty much a no go until late in the game, so that number is greatly reduced. (On a side note, Wolfram Alpha is an amazing site.)

I once tried to subsist solely off fish, I found it to be intensely painful, particularly with the change in fishing rates, although I can understand that opinions may vary on this. You won't always be able to get food when you need it, so you really need to know when the best times to fish are and make the most of it.

This is also compounded by the fact that it's an active exercise, whereas processes such as animal breeding or milking can be achieved while completing other tasks. It's a massive time sink which means you'll spend a large amount of time fishing and not doing much else.

Although I never found bait to be too much of an issue, an early morning roam usually sorts out your bait needs.

This is not to say that fishing isn't a great early game survival strategy, as it most definitely is, but it's definitely not something you want to be doing for any great period of time.

[DaveYanakov]

Also remember that fishing never really depletes (unless you fill in all the oceans with cement or something), so that provides a worst case scenario backup method of obtaining food when all else fails.

The hats were very scary...

[PatriotBob]

Also remember that fishing never really depletes (unless you fill in all the oceans with cement or something), so that provides a worst case scenario backup method of obtaining food when all else fails.

The hats were very scary...

For what ever reason I got the mental picture of catching a fish and instead of a fish flying back at you, it was a hat.
So far I have yet to encounter a hat, but my play is probably generally considered overly cautious.

Well, except when it's not.

[jkievlan]

...my play is probably generally considered overly cautious.

In BTW, there is no such thing.

[EtherealWrath]

Its not just the HC spawn area-- how far can you walk outside the area before starving?


Assuming all mushrooms eaten, all animals dead, cocoa eaten, and all the easy iron gone- the world stripped bare.
Theres still monster drops and batwings.
Even a worse case scenario it's possible to stockpile sustenance for a trip out to fresher pastures.

And by the way- his name is Shaun

Spoiler

Show

This river hits opens up to an inland lake, with my place on the other side. Unfortunately I've seen him too many times. Maybe I should stop and ask for advice as he's survived longer than I have.

[FlowerChild]

And by the way- his name is Shaun

I think he's silently judging you...