Errrr...what?Azdoine wrote: -Animals do not grow into adults, but plants do.
You might want to check those assumptions man, particularly before posting them labeled as "the facts" :)
Speculating on BTW's story and narrative.
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FlowerChild
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Re: Speculating on BTW's story and narrative.
You might want to check those assumptions man, particularly before posting them labeled as "the facts" :)
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chaoticneutral
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Re: Speculating on BTW's story and narrative.
Endermen's routine is: grab block in overworld, transform into endstone, go back to the end, profit. They take relatively little time in the OW because things age there, while time doesn't flow in The End.
I wonder if Endermen were born there; what if they were born in Overworld, then moved to The End as if it was a promised "immortal's land"? If this is the case, maybe they did the strongholds. I mean, how Endermen would reproduce in The End, if time doesn't flow?
Trying to integrate abandoned villages into this, I have a somewhat stupid hypothesis: what if Endermen and Testificates were once the same race? Then, when "the thing" happened, they suffered divergent evolution; the ones around the spawn got darker, taller and paranoid ("don't look at me!") and the ones outside lost their ability to pick blocks?
I wonder if Endermen were born there; what if they were born in Overworld, then moved to The End as if it was a promised "immortal's land"? If this is the case, maybe they did the strongholds. I mean, how Endermen would reproduce in The End, if time doesn't flow?
Trying to integrate abandoned villages into this, I have a somewhat stupid hypothesis: what if Endermen and Testificates were once the same race? Then, when "the thing" happened, they suffered divergent evolution; the ones around the spawn got darker, taller and paranoid ("don't look at me!") and the ones outside lost their ability to pick blocks?
--Who do you think you are, War?
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The Phoenixian
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Re: Speculating on BTW's story and narrative.
Sudden Epiphany: What if time doesn't move slowly in the End? What if it's the Overworld that is weird?
I mean we've got 20 minute days, "water" evaporating incredibly fast, animals and crops growing ridiculously fast, healing of anything below a lethal wound in minutes, and many other things occurring with extreme speed. Likewise if Animals and crops did grow in the End, but merely took many months or years to do so as one would expect on Earth, that would appear motionless in comparison to the massively increased speed of the overworld wouldn't it? And we see that time does flow in the end: Mechanical/Redstone systems work the same and water currents still spread, and flow like normal even if it doesn't decay.
Which leads to the question of, Why? What does the Overworld have the the End doesn't? And the first possibility that comes to mind is "A massive abundance of souls". At one time it was the case that souls were so common as to be found in the ores and rocks and even if we cannot extract them anymore does not mean the lore it spawned has died. We never see animals starve to death and the only reason they seem to eat is to breed, or produce some kind of matter (Wool, Dung, Eggs, Milk) so if they're actually feeding on the abundant souls in order to grow up, it would explain why they couldn't grow in the End,(If all the souls are going to the Enderdragon) The same would apply to crops and trees. and if trees and mushrooms are in part feeding on souls, that would explain why Groth and Bloodwood are able to function in the Nether.
We've seen people speculate that perhaps water interacts oddly with Endermen because it contains no souls and that might also explain why it drowns monsters: A skeleton can't exactly breathe but if it needs a constant input of souls to survive and water doesn't have them, then of course it's going to die. If water from buckets evaporates in the overworld because it's interacting with the souls and the End has none, that would explain why Hardcore Buckets turns off in the End.
This would also explain why Animals in the Nether behave oddly: If they're feeding on the ambient souls to survive and the souls are somehow wrong, that's probably going to mess them up internally.
I mean we've got 20 minute days, "water" evaporating incredibly fast, animals and crops growing ridiculously fast, healing of anything below a lethal wound in minutes, and many other things occurring with extreme speed. Likewise if Animals and crops did grow in the End, but merely took many months or years to do so as one would expect on Earth, that would appear motionless in comparison to the massively increased speed of the overworld wouldn't it? And we see that time does flow in the end: Mechanical/Redstone systems work the same and water currents still spread, and flow like normal even if it doesn't decay.
Which leads to the question of, Why? What does the Overworld have the the End doesn't? And the first possibility that comes to mind is "A massive abundance of souls". At one time it was the case that souls were so common as to be found in the ores and rocks and even if we cannot extract them anymore does not mean the lore it spawned has died. We never see animals starve to death and the only reason they seem to eat is to breed, or produce some kind of matter (Wool, Dung, Eggs, Milk) so if they're actually feeding on the abundant souls in order to grow up, it would explain why they couldn't grow in the End,(If all the souls are going to the Enderdragon) The same would apply to crops and trees. and if trees and mushrooms are in part feeding on souls, that would explain why Groth and Bloodwood are able to function in the Nether.
We've seen people speculate that perhaps water interacts oddly with Endermen because it contains no souls and that might also explain why it drowns monsters: A skeleton can't exactly breathe but if it needs a constant input of souls to survive and water doesn't have them, then of course it's going to die. If water from buckets evaporates in the overworld because it's interacting with the souls and the End has none, that would explain why Hardcore Buckets turns off in the End.
This would also explain why Animals in the Nether behave oddly: If they're feeding on the ambient souls to survive and the souls are somehow wrong, that's probably going to mess them up internally.
Last edited by The Phoenixian on Wed Apr 03, 2013 11:38 am, edited 1 time in total.
♪ The screams of the souls of the damned and dying,
Fuels for me, the Industry. ♪
Fuels for me, the Industry. ♪
Re: Speculating on BTW's story and narrative.
This is my preferred theory for the backstory of BTW:
What if the Steve we play as is one of many, many Steves who came before him through the same spawn point? The Steves that came before had to scavenge to survive in this foreign new world, and when they perished a new Steve was pulled into the world at the mystical spawn point. Over time, the corpses of the Steves who came before decayed into zombies and skeletons, wielding only what they had on at the time of their death, and the rest of their loot was scavenged by later Steves who wanted a foot up in their world.
Eventually the Steves found the natural inhabitants of the world, and from them, learned to survive. But the Steves did more than just survive, they prospered, and learned how to gain mastery of the world through the technology they created. This went on for some time until the Steves realized they could use the feeble, innocent villagers to bolster their own power. Relentlessly hungry for ever increasing power, they took advantage of the villagers' souls to power their contraptions. And at this point the Steves learned to farm the very beings that had taught them how to pull sustenance from nothing. Aggressive kidnapping from the combined efforts of each Steve eventually reduced the population of villages near the spawn point to zero, leaving only abandoned villages in their wake.
When the Steves had finally sold the scrap of their moral compass for all the power the world could muster, they learned how to find more. They could leave what they called the Overworld and return with new types of ore, tools, armor, and even poorly thought-out modern technology, gifts from the generous gods of the Overworld. They learned to worship these gods, not realizing they were all one and the same, the Enderdragon. In return, the collective Enderdragon received the souls of all the Steves who worshipped him, converting the Steves into monstrosities who served under the Enderdragon, and these mosntrosities were called endermen. Together, the ender collective set out to build a paradise in the dimension above the Overworld, their own warped version of the Overworld. The endermen could freely move between the two dimensions and brought back content from the Overworld, which was quickly converted into a homogenous gruel which they used to build their new world, The End. The tiny insects they cultivated, the silverfish, quickly destroyed any foreign content that did not fit the scheme of their world.
They made their new world free of the rules that constrained their power, and the water flowed freely. They could even control the passage of time, making it permanently whatever time of day they desired. When looked upon by innocent Steves new to the world, the endermen were forced to truly look at themselves, and they took their shame and anger out on that which had made them self-reflect. Seeing their own reflection in water made them equally upset. In no time at all however, their minds quickly returned to serving the collective.
The Nether is simply where the Enderdragon stored all the souls it had received, and all the detached souls languishing for challenge created the hellish landscape it has today. When Steves found they could travel to and from the Nether, they quickly discovered they could use the souls from wayward Steves past as a more powerful alternative to villagers' and quickly capitalized on this discovery.
This is where you come in, in the middle of the lifetime of this world. Another Steve has just joined the ranks of either the undead army of the ender collective. Do you follow the footsteps of those who came before you? Or do you cling to the glimmer of hope that perhaps, some time in the future, you'll return to where it is you came from?
What if the Steve we play as is one of many, many Steves who came before him through the same spawn point? The Steves that came before had to scavenge to survive in this foreign new world, and when they perished a new Steve was pulled into the world at the mystical spawn point. Over time, the corpses of the Steves who came before decayed into zombies and skeletons, wielding only what they had on at the time of their death, and the rest of their loot was scavenged by later Steves who wanted a foot up in their world.
Eventually the Steves found the natural inhabitants of the world, and from them, learned to survive. But the Steves did more than just survive, they prospered, and learned how to gain mastery of the world through the technology they created. This went on for some time until the Steves realized they could use the feeble, innocent villagers to bolster their own power. Relentlessly hungry for ever increasing power, they took advantage of the villagers' souls to power their contraptions. And at this point the Steves learned to farm the very beings that had taught them how to pull sustenance from nothing. Aggressive kidnapping from the combined efforts of each Steve eventually reduced the population of villages near the spawn point to zero, leaving only abandoned villages in their wake.
When the Steves had finally sold the scrap of their moral compass for all the power the world could muster, they learned how to find more. They could leave what they called the Overworld and return with new types of ore, tools, armor, and even poorly thought-out modern technology, gifts from the generous gods of the Overworld. They learned to worship these gods, not realizing they were all one and the same, the Enderdragon. In return, the collective Enderdragon received the souls of all the Steves who worshipped him, converting the Steves into monstrosities who served under the Enderdragon, and these mosntrosities were called endermen. Together, the ender collective set out to build a paradise in the dimension above the Overworld, their own warped version of the Overworld. The endermen could freely move between the two dimensions and brought back content from the Overworld, which was quickly converted into a homogenous gruel which they used to build their new world, The End. The tiny insects they cultivated, the silverfish, quickly destroyed any foreign content that did not fit the scheme of their world.
They made their new world free of the rules that constrained their power, and the water flowed freely. They could even control the passage of time, making it permanently whatever time of day they desired. When looked upon by innocent Steves new to the world, the endermen were forced to truly look at themselves, and they took their shame and anger out on that which had made them self-reflect. Seeing their own reflection in water made them equally upset. In no time at all however, their minds quickly returned to serving the collective.
The Nether is simply where the Enderdragon stored all the souls it had received, and all the detached souls languishing for challenge created the hellish landscape it has today. When Steves found they could travel to and from the Nether, they quickly discovered they could use the souls from wayward Steves past as a more powerful alternative to villagers' and quickly capitalized on this discovery.
This is where you come in, in the middle of the lifetime of this world. Another Steve has just joined the ranks of either the undead army of the ender collective. Do you follow the footsteps of those who came before you? Or do you cling to the glimmer of hope that perhaps, some time in the future, you'll return to where it is you came from?
Re: Speculating on BTW's story and narrative.
You, sir, are definitely a genius.The Phoenixian wrote:Sudden Epiphany: What if time doesn't move slowly in the End? What if it's the Overworld that is weird?
I mean we've got 20 minute days, "water" evaporating incredibly fast, animals and crops growing ridiculously fast, healing of anything below a lethal wound in minutes, and many other things occurring with extreme speed. Likewise if Animals and crops did grow in the End, but merely took many months or years to do so as one would expect on Earth, that would appear motionless in comparison to the massively increased speed of the overworld wouldn't it? And we see that time does flow in the end: Mechanical/Redstone systems work the same and water currents still spread, and flow like normal even if it doesn't decay.
Which leads to the question of, Why? What does the Overworld have the the End doesn't? And the first possibility that comes to mind is "A massive abundance of souls". At one time it was the case that souls were so common as to be found in the ores and rocks and even if we cannot extract them anymore does not mean the lore it spawned has died. We never see animals starve to death and the only reason they seem to eat is to breed, or produce some kind of matter (Wool, Dung, Eggs, Milk) so if they're actually feeding on the abundant souls in order to grow up, it would explain why they couldn't grow in the End,(If all the souls) The same would apply to crops and trees. and if trees and mushrooms are in part feeding on souls, that would explain why Groth and Bloodwood are able to function in the Nether.
We've seen people speculate that perhaps water interacts oddly with Endermen because it contains no souls and that might also explain why it drowns monsters: A skeleton can't exactly breathe but if it needs a constant input of souls to survive and water doesn't have them, then of course it's going to die. If water from buckets evaporates in the overworld because it's interacting with the souls and the End has none, that would explain why Hardcore Buckets turns off in the End.
This would also explain why Animals in the Nether behave oddly: If they're feeding on the ambient souls to survive and the souls are somehow wrong, that's probably going to mess them up internally.
This also connects with ancient mythology, where undead cannot cross running water, and that's why Hades and many other underworlds are separated from overworld by river.
Speaking about Hades: End looks very similar to it.
Re: Speculating on BTW's story and narrative.
The thread that refuses to stay dead.
With the launch of 4.66 another topic of speculation has arisen: the relationship between the Nether & the End
With the launch of 4.66 another topic of speculation has arisen: the relationship between the Nether & the End
Spoiler
Show
specifically the fact that Whitestone is acquired from Endstone and now we have Blackstone that is created from Netherquartz. Given FC's meticulousness it's not a far-fetched suggestion that the name of the latter was not an arbitrary choice.
Given the obvious theme of Hell found in the Nether, in combination with the common idea that white & black are representative of good and evil respectively, I'm still holding on to my theory that Enderman are a form of ascended overworlder and expanding on that with the suggestion that the End is a loose and twisted interpretation of heaven, making the Enderdragon a god. This also plays well into the BTW theme of steve's quest for power corrupting him enough to do something like slay the god of an ascended plain.
Given the obvious theme of Hell found in the Nether, in combination with the common idea that white & black are representative of good and evil respectively, I'm still holding on to my theory that Enderman are a form of ascended overworlder and expanding on that with the suggestion that the End is a loose and twisted interpretation of heaven, making the Enderdragon a god. This also plays well into the BTW theme of steve's quest for power corrupting him enough to do something like slay the god of an ascended plain.
Re: Speculating on BTW's story and narrative.
Maybe a little bit of spoiler in this like the previous post, but we got talking in irc about the Nether Quartz a bit:
Spoiler
Show
I like the idea that the black Nether Quartz ties to the Wither skeletons and the Wither itself. It fits with the darkened colour of them both a lot better than the coal, so in my head canon now they're crystallized skeletons. And I love the fact that BTW has reinforced the idea of the quartz having to do with time and timing, which could tie interestingly into the implied 'ancientness' of the Wither skeletons and Nether fortresses.
Re: Speculating on BTW's story and narrative.
For a while now, I have always thought of minecraft, and especially BTW as a sort of post-apocalyptic game. The player spawns alone, and that was the best part to me, everything except the villages were abandoned, so to me something happened to make them leave. As the player, you have to survive without civilization, and that is where I find fun in minecraft, everything is self-accomplished, you start with nothing. This is also why I don't so much like villages.
Re: Speculating on BTW's story and narrative.
You know, there's a Spanish saying that goes likeSix wrote:SpoilerShowAnd I love the fact that BTW has reinforced the idea of the quartz having to do with time and timing, which could tie interestingly into the implied 'ancientness' of the Wither skeletons and Nether fortresses.
Spoiler
Show
The devil knows more because he's old, than because he's the devil. The Wither is the devil and you resurrect it and kill it to harness its power.
Spoiler
Show
In Home everyone has long arms and the Endermen are the people whose souls were stolen by the Enderdragon and stored in the Nether. Steve figured out how to harvest souls from the Nether and made the Device to access the End and kill the Enderdragon to obtain its power but it malfunctioned/the Enderdragon messed with it sending him to the Overworld, and with his knowledge of souls he's able to rebuild the Device and go back Home.
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ThePowerofTower
- Posts: 99
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Re: Speculating on BTW's story and narrative.
Ooh, interesting idea. So, Steve (or, let's be feminist, and call it Tiffany) is an enderman who disguised herself as a villager-like-thing to save her people from the Enderdragon. So she gathered the villagers from many villages, had them abandon their homes, and travel to a place where the dimensional fabric is weak, to make the End portal. She broke the windows of the church out for shits, while she was at it. Then, when she was about to enter the portal, with her gimped-out Squidward army, the Ender-dragon whipped out some mamma-say mamma-saw and jinxed the portal, killing the army, and teleporting Tiff to a random location, and sapping her teleportation powers, as well as her ability to see weaknesses in the fabric of errythang (hence, she needs Ender eyes to make goggles to see normally again). Because she doesn't have the right eyes anymore, Endermen think that she's a mortal when she looks at them, and get aggressive as a result. The Nether is where the Ender-dragon stores the souls of the Endermen, who now try to regain their life sustenance from overworld blocks, and thusly sap blocks into endstone. As Tiffany realizes what the Netherrack is made of, she decides that only through alchemy can her brethren be freed, and so refines the netherrack into souls and explosive stoof. Her SFS armor is so powerful, because it carries the weight of a gadgillion shy, Shaq-lookin' dimension hoppers in it.Solymr wrote: *snip*
tl;dr: Tiffany's freakishly long arms are hidden by her magical Ender-illusion abilities.
Re: Speculating on BTW's story and narrative.
Just one thing: he/she didn't do it to save the people from the Enderdragon, just to become more powerful.
The villagers and their souls are just a tool :P
The villagers and their souls are just a tool :P
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The Phoenixian
- Posts: 244
- Joined: Wed Oct 26, 2011 11:58 pm
Re: Speculating on BTW's story and narrative.
Crossposted from Creeper chemistry with some additional stuff that would be off topic there.
This way we could have what is actually an entire ecosystem designed to kill you. The passive mobs die a lot when you're around but given the sheer size of the world anything lost will be eventually repopulated when the invader leaves Likewise, the hunting mobs only kill their prey in close contact while the ranged skeleton and explosive creeper don't hunt because it wouldn't be productive. Once the invaders are gone we end up with the Endermen taking care of things: old creeper craters and abandoned bases might be noticeable to new arrivals yes but if the surface stuff has all been smoothed over by dirt and stone collected by the Endermen and there's a few local villagers around to provide a false narrative for the underground ruins then it's going to be that much longer before the new arrivals notice the trap.
The passive mobs meanwhile feed off of ambient souls and they slowly accumulate in the world during quiet times to create a quick supply of souls so that monsters can quickly amount a massive army to deal invaders even after long periods of inactivity.I think there may be a few points to consider here: Firstly, If Savagelung's idea has merit, then the creeper oysters may have more in common with digestive organs or hormonal glands than testicles. Secondly, Given that creepers have nothing in common with Earthly life I think it is worth consideration that their reproductive nature matches: It may well be that they actually reproduce by killing and warping the souls of their targets into new creeper souls and slipping into the Minecraft world in the night and/or they could have been produced by the endermen/stronghold builders as a weapon with which to keep extradimensional entities (like Steve) from mucking up their mobtrap/world: hunting him via slipping into the weak spot in reality his presence creates.
Alternatively, the other "sexes" of creepers could be spiders and holding with the above theories we could have a dichotomy where the "Male" of the monster species (Spiders & Zombies) hunts animal prey to warp the souls into new offspring while the "female" (Creepers & Skeletons) acts as a pure weapon against it's targets.
This way we could have what is actually an entire ecosystem designed to kill you. The passive mobs die a lot when you're around but given the sheer size of the world anything lost will be eventually repopulated when the invader leaves Likewise, the hunting mobs only kill their prey in close contact while the ranged skeleton and explosive creeper don't hunt because it wouldn't be productive. Once the invaders are gone we end up with the Endermen taking care of things: old creeper craters and abandoned bases might be noticeable to new arrivals yes but if the surface stuff has all been smoothed over by dirt and stone collected by the Endermen and there's a few local villagers around to provide a false narrative for the underground ruins then it's going to be that much longer before the new arrivals notice the trap.
♪ The screams of the souls of the damned and dying,
Fuels for me, the Industry. ♪
Fuels for me, the Industry. ♪