Flower's Dev Diary (Week of November 27th)

[Mrchaim]

Well, this is all very exciting. Godspeed, FC - Looking forward to see what you pull off, whatever shape that takes.

[TheGatesofLogic]

Not to psychoanalyze or anything but...

That post was clearly written in a format of deep stress release, the weight of the situation and your apparent frustration must have been building for a huge amount of time. Without personally knowing you I would not be able to tell exactly what it means but for most people It takes a while to deal with all that pent up stress even after its released. I hope you rest well and enjoy a bit of relaxation and don't ever look back at vMC or it will catch up with you. I hope you enjoy all of the new things you can create and I look forward to seeing it!

My opinion as a BtW player: Definitely the right decision

[Splee999]

Wow, leave a topic alone for a day, and watch it gain ten pages. Anyway, I'm in full support of this option as using brand new BTW2, as it seems to be the easiest solution for you.

However, to throw my two cents in the bucket, I think it would be awesome if when the Device was activated in BTW1, it gave you the link to download BTW2, to add at least a little bit of continuity between the two mods. Perhaps that wouldn't be the exclusive method to gain access to BTW2, but I still think it would be an interesting way to end the game.

[Thorium-232]

I've heard it mentioned twice now, mostly in passing, but have you given any thought to the "vMC eventually becoming a plugin of the Minecraft API" concept that seems to be winding around in the background over at Mojang? Does that factor into your decisions at all? I understand that it'll be snowing in the nether the day that actually happens, but what if a day comes where there is essentially a Minecraft "engine" that you can build a complete BTW from on your own terms?

I do like the BTW2 concept. I have a feeling I'd play in it exclusively, as I can't see a reason to stick with vMC + BTW when an unchained version of the game exists (and make no mistake, that's what you have here FC. BTW is a game unto itself by this point even if it needs vMC to run). I would endorse a name change at that point though, which I saw earlier in this thread. Better Than Minecraft would not only be ballsy, it'd be true.

[Splee999]

I personally think Better than Minecraft would be a bad idea, mostly because Mojang could technically sue FC. I mean, Bethseda just sued Mojang for something similar, so I don't think FC should push it. /end unprofessional legal advice

[darahalian]

I've read through this thread, and I have to say that I agree that option 2 would be the most desirable from a purely gameplay point of view, but that the sequel option seems to be the next best thing, since it is simpler codeside. The only real issue people seem to be having (and, I admit, that I too would have with this option) is losing the sense of continuity that having both our existing world and Home in the same save would give. I'm not asking you to go back to option 2, especially given the most recent realizations of the possibilities that a TC would allow, but I thought of a possible solution to this issue of continuity and I'm wondering how possible/feasible it would be.

Basically, my solution would be to make starting a new world in BTW2 require you to have "finished" BTW1, perhaps by making going through "The Device" (or whatever would be at the end of BTW1) set a flag in that save file, and then requiring a save file with this flag to start a new world in BTW2, and this new world could also use the same seed as the world in the save file it requires. This would make it so that each Home world is tied to a specific, sufficiently developed BTW1 world, and is only be able to be accessed once you've worked your way through BTW1. Now this is obviously a SP only type of solution, and doesn't really translate to SMP, but like you mentioned earlier in this thread, about servers having the option to start in the Home dimension, I don't think it would be necessary to apply this change to SMP, especially since this could also provide a way for people to try out BTW2 before needing to finish BTW1 (or cheating their way to the end of the tech tree).

So, yeah... Maybe this is just a terrible idea, but I think it has merit, as it would help to keep continuity between Home and the rest of MC in peoples' saves, but wouldn't stop people from starting out in Home if they wanted if they played on a server (public or local). But even if it isn't a terrible idea, I don't know how feasible it would be to code, or if it would be worth it in bang-for-the-buck terms. All the same, (and I realize this is technically a suggestion in a dev diary), I just wanted to get this idea out there, and see what you think of it, since I think it could solve the only real problem with the sequel approach.

Having said all this, I trust that whatever you come up with will be just as awesome as everything else you've done so far, and I thank you that you've stayed with it (the mod, the community, everything) for so long, even in the face of all the discouragement that has come up over time, and I wish you good luck as you continue on with it all. Minecraft really wouldn't be the same without BTW, and I thank you profusely for all the great fun you've provided us free of charge.

[FlowerChild]

I've heard it mentioned twice now, mostly in passing, but have you given any thought to the "vMC eventually becoming a plugin of the Minecraft API" concept that seems to be winding around in the background over at Mojang? Does that factor into your decisions at all? I understand that it'll be snowing in the nether the day that actually happens, but what if a day comes where there is essentially a Minecraft "engine" that you can build a complete BTW from on your own terms?

You realize one of the big reasons I'm doing this is to avoid having to wait on Mojang for anything else right?

So no...whatever Mojang is rambling on about happening in some mythical land of dancing gnomes, infinite development time, and where games never grow old and are never replaced by newer ones, doesn't factor further into any of my decisions.

[MrLemon]

In my opinion, requiring someone to complete BTW1 before BTW2 is silly and not going to work. First of all, this is a sequel, you don't have to beat the first mod to play the second mod anymore than you have to beat a game to play the second installment of the game. Also people are going to cheat and get into BTW2 if they really want to anyway, I think it would be a waste of FCs time to implement a system to stop it.

[FlowerChild]

In my opinion, requiring someone to complete BTW1 before BTW2 is silly and not going to work. First of all, this is a sequel, you don't have to beat the first mod to play the second mod anymore than you have to beat a game to play the second installment of the game. Also people are going to cheat and get into BTW2 if they really want to anyway, I think it would be a waste of FCs time to implement a system to stop it.

Yup, I agree that it would be a waste of time. I briefly considered that option myself and quickly discarded it as not worth the effort.

There will be reasons to play BTW on its own, and I'm sure people will still quite enjoy it. BTW is a Minecraft modification. What I'm looking at doing now is more of a game in its own right. I think each will have its own place.

[jakerman999]

If bringing metadata up to a full byte becomes a reality(and maybe even without it) would adding extra blocks to the same ID as things like dirt and cobblestone be an option? Kind of a different method of implementing extended block ID's with a different set of drawbacks. I know you're already jamming a bunch of blocks into several IDs with meta data, would extending this method to partially used vanilla IDs be a solution?

[Sarudak]

Dude no. There's so many wrong assumptions there i don't know where to begin.

[Thorium-232]

You realize one of the big reasons I'm doing this is to avoid having to wait on Mojang for anything else right?

So no...whatever Mojang is rambling on about happening in some mythical land of dancing gnomes, infinite development time, and where games never grow old and are never replaced by newer ones, doesn't factor further into any of my decisions.

I understand that. It was more of a theoretical. I was just curious if you would find value in something like that if it ever did come about. They make mention that everything would be configurable, from blocks to texture support to physics (though aside from tweaking constants that seems wildly ambitious). I'm thinking it would be the closest you could get to making your own game, without having to actually make your own game.

The concept intrigues me, is all.

[Mason11987]

You realize one of the big reasons I'm doing this is to avoid having to wait on Mojang for anything else right?

So no...whatever Mojang is rambling on about happening in some mythical land of dancing gnomes, infinite development time, and where games never grow old and are never replaced by newer ones, doesn't factor further into any of my decisions.

I understand that. It was more of a theoretical. I was just curious if you would find value in something like that if it ever did come about. They make mention that everything would be configurable, from blocks to texture support to physics (though aside from tweaking constants that seems wildly ambitious). I'm thinking it would be the closest you could get to making your own game, without having to actually make your own game.

The concept intrigues me, is all.

"They make mention that everything would be configurable, from blocks to texture support to physics (though aside from tweaking constants that seems wildly ambitious)"

This will never happen. It's a neat idea but Mojang haven't proven their capability to pull anything like this off in a meaningful way within our lifetime.

I'm sure if they did this completely 2 years ago, FC would be all over it, but they haven't, and they won't.

[FlowerChild]

If bringing metadata up to a full byte becomes a reality(and maybe even without it) would adding extra blocks to the same ID as things like dirt and cobblestone be an option? Kind of a different method of implementing extended block ID's with a different set of drawbacks. I know you're already jamming a bunch of blocks into several IDs with meta data, would extending this method to partially used vanilla IDs be a solution?

Ok man...I've asked people nicely here to stop delving into technical details that they don't actually understand, and now I've had enough.

Enjoy your vacation.

[FlowerChild]

I understand that. It was more of a theoretical. I was just curious if you would find value in something like that if it ever did come about. They make mention that everything would be configurable, from blocks to texture support to physics (though aside from tweaking constants that seems wildly ambitious). I'm thinking it would be the closest you could get to making your own game, without having to actually make your own game.

The concept intrigues me, is all.

Then talk about it somewhere else. This isn't related to the current conversation, and I'd appreciate not being subjected to it in a thread I'm obviously following and in which there's an ongoing discussion of importance.

[Sarudak]

Ok man...I've asked people nicely here to stop delving into technical details that they don't actually understand, and now I've had enough.

Enjoy your vacation.

Heh... I wanted to do that but chickened out and settled for a mild rebuke... :P

[FlowerChild]

Heh... I wanted to do that but chickened out and settled for a mild rebuke... :P

Probably best to ease into the ways of the hammer ;)

[MaxAstro]

Well, all I can really add to this is that I strongly feel that the sequel is the proper balance of win and loss for the future of the mod.

Personally, in reading this, my biggest initial reaction was worry that the "start from Home" choice would be winning, because with everything I've put into BTW, I want to feel like I've ~earned~ Home. I don't want to be just handed it.

Obviously, for reasons discussed to death before, making Home a new world in original BTW as was planned isn't really a feasible solution. So yeah. I am 100% behind the sequel solution.

P.S.: That note about the device actually being working in that video you made blew my mind. You had Home up and running, even in a very early prototype, and you kept it secret this long? That level of restraint in a developer is practically unheard of - I certainly can't think of any other mod developer that would be able to resist the impulse to "show off the shiny" as it were.

I tip my hat to you, because that's one of the things I like most about you - your ability to keep me guessing about what's coming next. You're like the J.J. Abrams of mod developers. Except you actually have a plan for where your going. And you don't just make up your plot points based on fan reaction and then pretend it was always that way. And you actually have answers to the questions you dangle in front of us.

You know what? Nevermind. That metaphor sucked. :)

[logorouge]

It took me several months to come to terms with it, but the vanilla Minecraft I loved is long gone and I'm only playing for the BTW content since then. So, if you decide to go with the sequel option and start anew, I won't even look back before using the Device (which is quite sad in a way). But I have to say, it's good to see you so excited at the potential of a sequel/TC.

[Mudkipz]

Would the change to being a TC open up the possibility of you being able to include custom sound files (without players having to use an additional api)?

[FlowerChild]

Ok, I believe this conversation has run its course. I'll let everyone know when I come to a final decision on this.

And guys, thanks again for all the support that you showed in this thread. It really did mean a lot to me. I just know that it's reached the point now where more and more uninformed/unrelated comments/questions will be posted which will ultimately detract from the overall positive vibes here, and I don't want to let that happen :)