introduce a ballistae block/entity for the broadheadarrows

[CreeperCommando]

First please note this is just a suggestion, I'm thus letting the forum-community (and if this seems a good idea even FC O.o) decide if implementable or not :)
Secondly I searched for ballistaes in the forum but couldn't find any (except a topic in design philosophies), so I'm guessing it's not fully mentioned as a suggestion

I would much rather have a more specific block/entity for firing the broadhead -arrows than the dispenser,
mainly because it sucks having a block that is limited to only 6 directions in space.
The dispenser is fine for traps inside complexes or maybe building a battleship just for fun, but there is a clear gap between manually shooting and self firing mechanism.
This gap in usability is mainly in allowed angles to aim and to acquire target, and the first one would do tons to cover this gap.

My suggestion is the design smaller ballista mounted on a wooden frame/stance (forgot the right word <.<;;)

Picture:

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Some ideas to flesh it out:
1. Needed to load ammo in a size restricted ammo slot to restrict independence of ballista

2. mechanical power needed between shots to rearm the ballista, supplied either by adjacent handcrank or by axles from below. (to restrict fire speed and size of selfiring contraptions)

3. A GUI (the thing that pops out when right-clicking chests, craftingbenches etc.) for ammo and aiming.

4. Aiming could be made simple by a control interface composed of a 'clock' interface to select the
'phi'-angle (NSWE-plane) and a slider for the 'theta'-angle(up-down angle), a good idea though is to limit increments of angle to 5, 10 or 15 degrees as this gives the impression of a 'cleaner' interface.

5. Should only be able to fire broadheads (and MAYBE arrows) this IS a specialized tool and shouldn't have more functionality than a dispenser or a BD, although as it is loaded by mechanical power it could maybe be more of a hardhitter...

6. I believe that being something that faces more than the 6 allowed faces/angles for cubes, it would probably work better as a entity, or maybe a comb. of both?

What are your thoughts?

[Mrchaim]

First things first, I'll link a nigh on identical thread to this topic - viewtopic.php?f=10&t=905

As a friendly heads up, it's generally really appreciated if you check through for previous threads similar to your idea, to help with avoiding posting a duplicate thread.

That said, the last thread ended in flames, and this post has been put together alot more coherently (Much appreciated there), so here goes my take:

I like this a bit more than the "sentry gun" take. The idea of having to use mechanical power to reload it is very neat - It makes me think of this as almost more a siege type weapon - something you build to take down ghasts from hopper incidents gone wrong, or to snipe a creeper from the safety of your base.

I'm not convinced it's entirely necessary or worth the eating of a block ID - On the other hand, by making it so distinct from how the dispener/block dispener functions, it does help push it to something that's more interesting to consider. The problem is that it's functionality is aggressively limited - it fires arrows. Arrows with precision aiming and heavier firepower, sure, but this is still something that can already be done between the bow or a dispener hooked up to a pulsar. 1.8's ability to let you draw your bow back for extra power will probably only worsen this idea, sadly.

I think, really, for it to be justified the combat mechanics in the game would have to be much deeper. If you had to fight off invasions from things ala Dwarf Fortress, or if you could use it to fire specialized goo-bombs that would trap things, or perhaps TNT Broadheads for remote demolition, that's when you start opening up some good idea space - and even then i remain unconvinced.

So - cool in theory, less so in practicality would be my current stance.

[M!C]

Could you give an example of when you need your ballistae?

As long as you're present yourself you can always use your bow (damage or range are no reason to implement sth.).

And whenever you're not present there needs to be a trigger. The triggers available atm (pressure plates, DBs) all check only one block so you can easily use a regular dispenser to aim at them.
IF the only use of your idea is to make more positions to fire from available it won't even be considered.

[CheGiuAn]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AX5bhTHVS1s

[BigShinyToys]

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I was looking for the Wall mounted Crossbow form Underworld rise of the lycans ( a very awesome film) but this is the only crossbow I found . I think that People want a mounted weapon so they and place them across there battlements and make their buildings look cooler. But for practical porous You would only use one of these do you could hide behind a shield of some kind on the front and talk no damage form Arrows fires be Shielded . But ever since the Block dispenser could fire arrows people have wanted to move it to strange angles And set it to fire there.

From a practical point Making it like a water wheel (That being that you can place it but it is an entity would be a Drain on system resources.) But would be totally possible. It would fit the themes of this mods medieval weapons and armor But not the direction FC wants to take it. (Please feel free to correct me) This would be cool but I cant see it happening so soon after FC added a wicked strong bow and armor that is "Bullet Proof" in most situations.

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Code: Select all

//variables init:
public ModelRenderer Base;
public ModelRenderer Bow_part 1;
public ModelRenderer Bow_part 2;
public ModelRenderer Bow_part 3;
public ModelRenderer Bow_string;
public ModelRenderer Bow_string0;
public ModelRenderer Center;
public ModelRenderer Stand;
public ModelRenderer wheel;
public ModelRenderer wheel0;

//constructor:
Base = new ModelRenderer(-2, 74);
Base.addBox(0F, 0F, 0F, 32, 4, 32);
Base.setPosition(-16F, 0F, -16F);

Bow_part 1 = new ModelRenderer(18, -19);
Bow_part 1.addBox(0F, 0F, 0F, 17, 4, 2);
Bow_part 1.setPosition(-8F, 24F, -16F);

Bow_part 2 = new ModelRenderer(28, -46);
Bow_part 2.addBox(0F, 0F, 0F, 11, 4, 2);
Bow_part 2.setPosition(6F, 24F, -16F);
Bow_part 2.rotateAngleY = 0.20943951023931956F;

Bow_part 3 = new ModelRenderer(55, -10);
Bow_part 3.addBox(-11F, 0F, 0F, 11, 4, 2);
Bow_part 3.setPosition(-6F, 24F, -16F);
Bow_part 3.rotateAngleY = 6.073745796940266F;

Bow_string = new ModelRenderer(47, 11);
Bow_string.addBox(0F, 0F, -32F, 1, 1, 32);
Bow_string.setPosition(0F, 27F, 16F);
Bow_string.rotateAngleY = 0.4886921905584123F;

Bow_string0 = new ModelRenderer(47, 2);
Bow_string0.addBox(-1F, 0F, -33F, 1, 1, 32);
Bow_string0.setPosition(0F, 27F, 16F);
Bow_string0.rotateAngleY = 5.794493116621174F;

Center = new ModelRenderer(-55, -94);
Center.addBox(0F, 0F, 0F, 4, 24, 32);
Center.setPosition(-2F, 4F, -16F);

Stand = new ModelRenderer(-21, 48);
Stand.addBox(0F, 0F, 0F, 4, 8, 32);
Stand.setPosition(-2F, 0F, 11F);
Stand.rotateAngleX = 5.951572749300664F;

wheel = new ModelRenderer(-48, 32);
wheel.addBox(0F, 0F, 0F, 4, 16, 16);
wheel.setPosition(16F, -8F, -8F);

wheel0 = new ModelRenderer(-49, -23);
wheel0.addBox(-4F, 0F, 0F, 4, 16, 16);
wheel0.setPosition(-16F, -8F, -8F);

//render:
Base.render(f5);
Bow_part 1.render(f5);
Bow_part 2.render(f5);
Bow_part 3.render(f5);
Bow_string.render(f5);
Bow_string0.render(f5);
Center.render(f5);
Stand.render(f5);
wheel.render(f5);
wheel0.render(f5);

I nocked up a moddle with FMCmoddler v 0.26
the code should be able to be added strate into the game code I think??

[CreeperCommando]

This is why I love BTWs community, reasons to uphold communications over cyberspace (read as lack of MC forums hoodlums).
As I said before it was mostly an idea to discuss, I know BTW is more about tech tree + automation + multistructures.
But to be honest I, as probably most hatchling turtles, wont hold a candle against FCs gamedesigning abilities...



Mrchaim:
When you showed that link, I realized I remembered some of that stuff actually (ie big chance that I've seen that topic...), I'll do a better (read as thorough) research next time. Shame on me :(

Second points I'll take as compliments :3
I love the ghast idea you had, my idea was by hooking up a grid of them you could precisioncarpet (aka artillery-wannabe) a specific space/area giving much more versatile area denial countermeasure

It's true that it is aggressively limited, I was more concerned to make it distinct from the dispenser as a initial standpoint, but note it IS also powerful compared to the dispenser which in my opinion is a 'indoor' type of toy-err trap.
Excellent point with 1.8 update, hopefully Notch won't add one hit kill or similar silliness, although I'm confident FC is prepared for such things.

There came what I believe the first killingblow pretty much, yes the fighting mechanics is pretty much... the three stooges and one baseball bat in minecraft. Mu guess is also that after the 1.8 update the battle mechanics will be the three stooges and a fancy baseball bat ;_;
I feel a huge lack in design of the mobs...
Yes this idea would be better as something implemented for PvP but darnit, everything made by FC is millions times better!


M!C:
Perfect question there! and to be honest this idea is more of a reaction to FC implementing broadhead arrows to be shootable through dispensers, that itself is a concept I don't feel right with.
Reason is that I feel that the dispenser is a 'cheap' toy from Mojang, ok when it came out it was kinda cool, but nothing more, it's only use as far as I know is trapmaking indoors (is it worth creating an outdoor musketline to kill a single creeper?), henfarms and feeding loocked in wolves.
A second reason is that it seems weird that Steve must use a C-bow to fire Bh-arrows but the dispenser can do this with a simple bow inside it + with the power of redstone!
Coming back to your question barred the obvious, medium distance signal transmission (read as Ballistae + DB) through odd angles/ angled upwards perhaps? (gap filler between redstone and the lens perhaps?)
Also note that more power doesn't necessarily mean easier kill, when talking about Ballistaes note that they are siege engines their shots could have certain abilities such as shattering glass or travelling clean through thinner and softer obstacles such as panels and perhaps dirt, if that could add more interesting adaptions of ingenuity.

Sorry I made a long rant of your question, but if you want a short answer it's: just about as much as I need dispensers if not more...

Although your first situation also speaks against dispensers, the second is still an indoors toy (read as only play in narrow rooms), if Mojang had the ability to implement a random discrepancy in the arrows trajectory it wouldn't be that hard to add even a control for small adjustments, for example a maximum of 15 degrees from centre off trajectory + random discrepancies added. Right now its 'main' function is only effective when en masse, which compared to 'effectiveness' is kinda ridiculous...

I've added reasons in the above answer to your need question, if you think they can have their set niche of purpose is up to you.


CheGiuAn:
I'm really not a fan of 'no words, only an URL'.
Those don't add a thing to discussions, are actually rather rude, and I was expecting something like what the three other guys provided.

BigShinyToys:

Albeit two points I don't have anything to say, seems rather spot on arguments you have there chap!

1. I'm personally not a fan of referencing movies, but that's my opinion ^^
2. I mentioned a possibility of penetrating/breaking certain blocks somewhere higher up in this post could perhaps add a bit more spice in usability.

You also added the second killing blow for this implementation, entities are not a good solution en masse.



Lastly I could add the last nail in the coffin for this bugger, being something hard to code somewhere near pulleys and platforms but with such vague usages, I have trouble seeing it worthy of FCs attention. Although I put up the idea for the purpose of fleshin it out...

[rosstafan]

FC has implied that he really doesn't want to include another entity in the game
Also it would be alot simpler just to allow the current dispenser to fire broadheads