Better Than Wolves Forum

Five years ago I made a thread like this, and recent playing of BTW has inspired me to give it another go.

Edit: Epsilon added even more to this chart, check out his post

This is a mapped out Tech tree flowchart as of BTW v4.B00002. Spoilered below is a (massive 3MB) image from my dropbox, but you can also access the chart directly. I think the original will work with this dropbox file. I also made an svg.

Link to image It's a draw.io diagram so anyone else can do something with it afterwards.

I did this mostly so I could help refine and update the wiki with all the recent changes that have drastically changed the game, especially the early game.

This is definitely not a perfect view, so feel free to share anything I got wrong, but I think it's pretty good.

Thanks FC for making a game so crazy that it spawns something like this!

Thanks for putting the time into creating this again! I used the previous version extensively to keep myself on track. I just made a new world after a packed summer and will definitely be using this.

AAAAAHHHHH!!!!!

Having your own madness externally mapped and charted is oddly disturbing ;)

This is super awesome. It's definitely scary to see how big the mod really is. Especially the fact that villagers take up 1/4 of the entire tech tree (rightfully so, I spent a couple hundred hours at villager trading).

It's definitely very thorough and well done, but there were few more minor things I noticed:

• Beacons appear to be missing
• It says construct nether portal under stronghold
• The soul flux --> thick potion is awkwardly floating way below the rest of the potion stuff
• Combining the cauldron and stoked hibachi says it makes a stoked crucible
• Piston packer recipe for packed earth should be made from loose dirt
• Piston packer is missing recipes for clay, dirt, sand, gravel, and sandstone
• Maybe there should be something for the high campfire burning meat
• It looked to be missing wicker blocks, wool blocks, wool slabs, and paintings
• Padding blocks and beds are missing

FlowerChild wrote:AAAAAHHHHH!!!!!

Having your own madness externally mapped and charted is oddly disturbing ;)

Déjà vu :)

dawnraider wrote:This is super awesome. It's definitely scary to see how big the mod really is. Especially the fact that villagers take up 1/4 of the entire tech tree (rightfully so, I spent a couple hundred hours at villager trading).

It's definitely very thorough and well done, but there were few more minor things I noticed:

• Beacons appear to be missing
• It says construct nether portal under stronghold
• The soul flux --> thick potion is awkwardly floating way below the rest of the potion stuff
• Combining the cauldron and stoked hibachi says it makes a stoked crucible
• Piston packer recipe for packed earth should be made from loose dirt
• Piston packer is missing recipes for clay, dirt, sand, gravel, and sandstone
• Maybe there should be something for the high campfire burning meat
• It looked to be missing wicker blocks, wool blocks, wool slabs, and paintings
• Padding blocks and beds are missing

Great, all fixed. Thanks!

jorgebonafe wrote: Déjà vu :)

It's always been oddly disturbing :)

This is fantastic work. We have needed one of these for a long time now!

One thing I noticed: Netherrack is listed as a precondition for a heated cauldron, but it is possible to heat a cauldron with a campfire. In my most recent play through I managed to achieve saw tech long before I accessed the nether. The portal is not as early of a bottleneck as it used to be.

Nice to see you put in the effort and do this amazing visualization again.

One minor thing I noticed (unless I'm missing something on how the mod works):
the Librarian LvL4 level up trade is missing/not labeled.

EDIT: minor corrections.

Another thing I didn't see is padded armour wich you can do as long as you have plenty of fabric and whool and is a good leather replacement at that stage of the game

Mason11987 wrote:It's a draw.io diagram so anyone else can do something with it afterwards.

I'm interpreting that as a permission to post my moddyfied version of your chart here. If I'm wrong dooing that I'll take it down as soon as you tell me to.

PNG on DropBox plus the .io file. List of changes:

• Eddited starting Section trying to tidie things up
• Eddited Nether section not to be a requirement for the Couldron
• Added Enchantig Section
• Added a colorcode for Food and Weapon Items
• Added detailed Description to most non trivial "find" Arrows
• Added farming cycles for Wheat, Melon & Pumpkin
• Added some explanation bubbles for complex mechanics (Animal Hunger, Beacons, Mechanical Power)
• Added an exploration Section
• Expandet Beacon Section
• ColocCode for Tools & gravity affected blocks
• ColorCode for Structures
• Added a Title
• Included credits in the bottom right corner

List of work in progress:

• More explanation bubbles for complex mechanics
• Add a simpel "BiomOverview" table (continuing this work of mine)
• Maybe add some guideline along the lines of the ages of progression
• I'm questioning the brewing part, as it's not lining up with the Wiki, and I don't know what informations are more up to date

I'm sure there are errors in my chart (spelling wise, as well as gameplay wise), so please tell me if you spot one.

EDIT: Updated to 2020 v5.1 Version

I've been constantly updating my version over the last two days (including the link, so the posted version is still my latest version).

But my knowledge is limited, and the Wiki is not up to date on everything. Also, collecting all the latest information from the Forums is time consuming and sometimes no verified information can be found.
Therefore, I'm not sure about the correctness of many things included in the chart, and I would appreciate any corrections reported.

Of special concern are:

• higher tech content in general
• brewing
• enchanting
• information about hardcore Animals and hardcore farming
• spelling
• general consistency

Thanks again to Mason11987 for the original version and the .io version he provided, so I could continue with my additions.

Looks great!

Regarding brewing, the wiki is off. It lists creeper oysters for splash potions, but FC changed it back to gunpowder when he moved gunpowder back to pre-end tech.

Will look at the rest when I get a chance. Thanks for extending it so much!

What is all this madness wow. Btw is HUGE!

End game stuff looks pretty good. I rewrote most of the villager page after FC's most recent round of changes to that once I got to that tech so I trust that that is at least mostly updated. I may not have gotten everything though on that so I'll have to do another pass on the wiki page to make sure everything is good. The rest of endgame looks good, very little outside of villagers has changed there in a long time.

Other notes:

• Enchanting is missing the thorns enchant. No arcane scroll for it but the vanilla enchanter can do it and so can the priest. Bane of arthropods also has some weird formatting happening.
• In piston packing it says dirt pile --> loose dirt --> packed earth, but dirt piles pack into normal dirt not loose dirt.
• Brewing is missing invisibility and instant damage (made by adding a venom sack to night vision and instant health, respectively).
• Might want to make note of the nausea effect from grinding netherrack.
• Padding, padding blocks, and beds should be moved outside the "requires steel" box (and probably moved up to the top), and padded armor also needs to be added.

dawnraider wrote:End game stuff looks pretty good.

Nice to hear, thanks.

dawnraider wrote: Other notes:

• In piston packing it says dirt pile --> loose dirt --> packed earth, but dirt piles pack into normal dirt not loose dirt.
• Brewing is missing invisibility and instant damage (made by adding a venom sack to night vision and instant health, respectively).
• Might want to make note of the nausea effect from grinding netherrack.
• Padding, padding blocks, and beds should be moved outside the "requires steel" box (and probably moved up to the top), and padded armor also needs to be added.
• Enchanting is missing the thorns enchant. No arcane scroll for it but the vanilla enchanter can do it and so can the priest.

Fixed all the above. Padded armor was already in there way up, when padding first appears, in the "iron required section", but it's not listed as "padded armor" but as the names of the 3 parts one can make.
The one below is still fighting hard not to get fixed:

dawnraider wrote:

• Bane of arthropods also has some weird formatting happening.

The links in my original post were updated.
But just in case:
PNG plus .io file.

Hey guys,

I'm planning on jumping back in and trying to get through the mod once more in the near future. Thus I was checking if this visualisation is still up to date.
So far I found two areas that appear slightly out of date, and that I would like working on:

• Villager trading. According to the Wiki-page that was updated quite recently the visualisation is out of date for some trades, and level ups.
• Breeding. I'm far but sure that the listed breeding items are still up to date...

What I'm looking for is feedback of what is correct and what not so I can correct the chart, and keep it up to date.

There's also a list of other augmentations I'm thinking about adding to the chart, so let's hope I stay motivated :D

thanks for your help in advance.

Eyeballed the breeding items and they look correct.

chicken - chicken feed
pig - chocolate
sheep - pumpkin pie
cow - cake

Hey,

Lately I had far more fun playing around with the TechTree-Chart, rather than playing the Mod. Guess I'm still afraid of the early game. Specifically of the frustration that comes with dying and my lack of understanding how to transition to "the mid game".

So I just updated the Links in my Post here. So, here's the latest Version: Just some minor changes and improvements.

• Trade Section is up to date with the Wiki (I have no ability to confirm the information myself atm)
• Added "exploration Section" featuring the generated structures that play important roles in the mod
• Added many more explanation bubbles
• Eddited Bookshelfs to reflect how they can be obtained

Doing the above I realized that the whole chart is getting somehow messy, and I would like to clean it all up. Also, seeing my obsession with adding explanation bubbles, I thought it might fit well to elevate the project by making it more of a guide.
So my thoughts are to break the tree up in subsections (As some of them already present themselves within the current version), each with its own little focus. Those subsections might themselves be organized as a tree like structure, but might also have a sense of progression within them. This also would allow to neatly fit in sections that explain parts of the mod not jet well represented. I imagine adding a kind of "Bestiary" listing every mob in the Mod and explaining it. In similar fashion I would like to add a "Biom Overview" along the lines of what I did way back.
Then this should align quite well with the idea of "The Ages Of Progression" that is still present on the wiki, though marked as outdated. In an attempt to revive it, I thought of separating different "stages" the player is in by the "goals" they are pursuing at that stage. And also having the possibility to have multiple "fields" the player is progressing in at once.
So the different fields I had in mind are:

• Food
• Shelter/Building
• Tools/Weapons
• Automation or Mechanical Power
• Magic (Brewing and Enchanting)
• Exploration
• Trading

Then taking food as an example the different stages therein could be:

• Hunter/Nomad <- get some Club or a Stone Axe
• Shepard/Domesticator <- have some chicks/sheep/cows you domesticate for eggs/wool/milk
• Farmer <- grow wheat/carrots/potatoes
• Animal Breeder <- breed animals for their flesh

Goals in other fields could be: make a workbench, construct a windmill, ...

Those are just suggestions, and I'm still unhappy with what I can come up with in many areas.
And here is the part where I appreciate any other ideas that get thrown at me, so I can pick them up :D

Whoah! I'll need to spend some more time on it to dig through things but I noticed (or couldn't find) that a hopper wicker filter separates gravel into sand (blocks) and flint.
I also didn't see hafts (they use glue) although I could have easily missed it.
It might be worth noting in the chart somewhere that animal breeding can't be completely automated at this point (other than chickens), and that keeping animals alive is difficult.

As far as ages, personally I'd define them based on the mod tech tree, whatever bottleneck unlocks additional abilities, resources, etc. I think at every stage of the game think about why the player needs to move forward in the tech tree.
For example, the early game is all about not dying. Learning how to take things slow; protect and feed yourself. But once you manage not to die for a dozen or so in game days, why does the player need to move forward? Permanent lighting. Yeah nether is needed for bellows and the saw but from the players perspective "what problem am I trying to solve" the ability to have permanent lighting is a game changer. It results in less risk to dying, less hunger consumed to light fires, the ability to repeat caving runs with fewer resources and less risk, etc. All of that is before the saw.
Other notable game changing advancements that come to mind are:
Mechanical Power (allows semi automation, tech advancement, additional resources, etc)
Sustainable Food (this can be broken out into farming and domestic animal breeding)
At that point, the player will be in the muddy mid game. There's been a lot of discussion over the years about players getting stuck here and not progressing because there isn't any external pressure to push the player to branch out beyond base building, semi automation, aesthetics, etc. Eventually players want to fully automate things, get better food, or what not and start exploring.
Exploration leads to Villages which can be broken out into a farming upgrade (wheat, carrots, potatoes), and the healing villagers 'mini game'.
From here on out, the entire mod is about the villager trades. As soon as the player realizes the massive volume and variety of items required by villager trades it should drive the player to figure out automation, additional exploring, etc. It's all about the trades.
Once trades are complete and the End is conquered, then it becomes truly sandbox since there are no additional challenges built into the tech tree to unlock, other than just get all the things and defeat hardcore spawn, although once a player has sfs from the End, a hardcore spawn should be a rare event.

In my own play, what you call "magic" I honestly pretty much ignore. I save ingredients for potions to use in villager trades instead, and only use potions for withers and the dragon until I've unlocked the End. Enchantments are nice, I toss those on whenever I have enough xp but I really don't focus on them. They can make things slightly easier, but I don't know that it's really a focal point of the game. A lot of enchantments are useless (pre infernal enchanter) and some make things worse (I'm looking at you knockback. Worst. Enchant. Ever.). That being said, having a set of armour enchanted with fire and arrow protection definitely makes the nether significantly more manageable. Also a respiration helmet is also extremely useful to collect along the way. I very much could be in the minority on this one.

So an important note is that chickens cannot be automated fully either, since chicken feed needs to be manually crafted.

As for tech stages, I usually organize it as the following:

• Start
• Crafting table
• Nether/permanent lighting
• Stoked fire
• Villagers
• Soulforge
• End

I don't really think sustainable food is any sort of bottleneck, more of just a side goal that becomes easier as you tech up. Mech power I kind of just merge with the nether as a requirement for permanent lighting.

SterlingRed wrote: ↑Wed Sep 02, 2020 3:37 pmIn my own play, what you call "magic" I honestly pretty much ignore. I save ingredients for potions to use in villager trades instead, and only use potions for withers and the dragon until I've unlocked the End. Enchantments are nice, I toss those on whenever I have enough xp but I really don't focus on them. They can make things slightly easier, but I don't know that it's really a focal point of the game. A lot of enchantments are useless (pre infernal enchanter) and some make things worse (I'm looking at you knockback. Worst. Enchant. Ever.). That being said, having a set of armour enchanted with fire and arrow protection definitely makes the nether significantly more manageable. Also a respiration helmet is also extremely useful to collect along the way. I very much could be in the minority on this one.

I don't tend to focus too much on enchants either besides getting efficiency on picks, and smite and/or looting on swords. I have always found fire protection nigh useless though because why would I use something to mitigate an effect when potions exist to completely cancel it? I am a prodigious user of potions though. I always carry health potions, and I carry fire resist while caving or in the nether, night vision while exploring, and invis also for the nether.

Quickly wanted to thank you for the input.
I have my ideas, and you inspired some new ones and directed the ones I had. Unfortunately atm I'm busy doing university stuff so it might take a while until you can see the fruits of this labour.