Embargo Lifted! (Open Early Game Discussion)

[Xaedblade]

Your understanding is wrong. They average 1 string drop (if they have any left), but it's not consistent. I think of it as you're hacking up this creature first killing it, then trying to salvage web stored in some organ, resulting in the variability based on how much string you ruin in the process.

Letting them shoot the web is indeed a more reliable way of extracting string from the spider, but also more time consuming. Both methods will result in the same amount of string accumulated over time. It's all a matter of whether you can afford the extra time or the extra risk, meaning the optimal approach will tend to vary based on circumstances.

I have a pretty low tolerance for gaminess, but I don't believe this qualifies. It's an intentional mechanic that engages the player in tactical decision making.

I see your point. There is a much greater risk in letting them shoot at you vs just hacking them and that does also explain my misunderstanding. Not sure where I got the guaranteed 1 string idea from.

Just a side note(spoiler just in case)

Spoiler

Show

I noticed while I was playing that sometimes the spiders will agro at me if I kill one of their friends. Not sure if that is just a coincidence or not but it definitely makes me think twice now.

This has been a very frustrating and amazingly fun set up updates for sure :D. Thanks for your work ;)

[FlowerChild]

I see your point. There is a much greater risk in letting them shoot at you vs just hacking them and that does also explain my misunderstanding. Not sure where I got the guaranteed 1 string idea from.

Well, when I first implemented the string depletion mechanic on spiders, it was a guaranteed 1 drop. I introduced the variability in a later release to introduce the decision making process I described above. If you look through the change logs for the past couple of months you'll probably find those bits.

This has been a very frustrating and amazingly fun set up updates for sure :D. Thanks for your work ;)

Glad you're enjoying it :)

[Egger3rd]

I'm really liking the changes so far. I had progressed through almost all of the available tech tree on a previous save, but I started a new world anyhow to experience the recent updates fully. Otherwise I would probably see the roads and landmarks I made and just end up skipping the new content. I didn't want that.

It was initially frustrating and like scraping at bits of the world just to survive a night. Spiders hate chickens, and you can get string from such altercations. Barring that though, you have to actually brave the night and provoke them. Or if you're lucky they'll be hopping around on your roof still at dawn. I never would have thought that was a lucky occurrence before.

With the change in torches, it makes more sense now to strip mine top to bottom. That way mobs at least wont spawn in that area during the day. So, I did that. What I really should have done was just woman up and do some shallow cave exploration. Strip mining took so long that I ended up running out of food, string, and iron even. This mod favors the bold now, and I think that's good. It makes early combat more meaningful and forces me out of my comfort zone.

[Egger3rd]

I felt totally outclassed by the "Show us your builds!" posts, but I still thought it would be cool to share the photo albums of my recent early-game base. So, I'm posting them here. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Base Overview
Renewable Food Progress

[eleninrec]

I felt totally outclassed by the "Show us your builds!" posts, but I still thought it would be cool to share the photo albums of my recent early-game base. So, I'm posting them here. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Base Overview
Renewable Food Progress

I like your neat simple design. Could you give more information about the 0.5-offset door thing? That sounds interesting.
Can players normally walk through it? What do you do when a creeper or skeleton is waiting at the gate?

[SterlingRed]

I have acquired diamonds for the first time since the hardcore early game! I feel more accomplished getting this far than I did with automated sfs in previous play throughs. Diamonds used to be a big step in the progression, but now it feels like a giant leap. It's cool. Nice job FC!

[Gilberreke]

I like your neat simple design. Could you give more information about the 0.5-offset door thing? That sounds interesting.
Can players normally walk through it? What do you do when a creeper or skeleton is waiting at the gate?

Players can walk through normally. If a skelly is there, you've fucked up, you have to make sure there's no spots for it to stand during daytime, so it'll burn. As for creepers, they won't try to path towards you, so you can devise a plan to get rid of it.

The very rare cases where they do path through is when they get bumped. For example, a zombie is standing next the to entrance, another one tries to get in and bumps the first one into the opening. It happens.

Ways to fix possible problems: you can make sort of a double airlock and it'll stop 99% of bad things happening, make sure there's a 90° bend in between the airlocks so a mob can't see inside. As for the creeper problem, two entrances mostly stops that problem.

[Egger3rd]

I honestly couldn't have explained it better. Gilberreke hit points I hadn't even thought of. I find that even when they do get bumped in they act like they are stuck and won't proceed any farther in. Also, if the protective tunnel is long enough, by daytime you could just travel completely out of the area the mobs had spawned in overnight.

Pros and cons are involved in this kind of design for security vs. materials vs. time in use. I think the half-block exploit is mostly good for just diving into safety when being chased by mobs. I still use a door now that I can make planks for it because skeletons will still shoot through the half-block path. Could do the 90 degree bend, but I like symmetry when I can spare it.

It's fun just playing around and seeing what works, mostly. Also, being overly concerned about safety is really what has hampered my progress the most in this game. I hate caving, but you pretty much have to do it now. Otherwise the game will likely take a looooot longer. I seriously have played this game more than any other game, and I still suck at it because I'm a such a chicken shit.

[eleninrec]

Wow, you two together almost gave me a research report there. It really teases me, and I want to definitey test it in the next HCS. Feels a bit exploity, but it requires mortar or snow and lies between a jumping puzzle and a proper door... I may just treat it as a brief optional step of gating progression.

Egger3d, I am another chicken shit here, and I want to avoid caving as much as possible. Have you had good luck in your strip mine? Currently I am thinking about making one, since surface iron is getting low.. Would you recommend it?

[Egger3rd]

Have you had good luck in your strip mine? Currently I am thinking about making one, since surface iron is getting low.. Would you recommend it?

I have not had much luck with it. I think I hit two pockets total from this one, which used up almost the entirety of my iron axe. I'm saving the rest of its durability in case I find a deep cave with diamonds. Stone axes are slow, but with a hemp farm I have an infinite source of string replacement (four to a leaf when ground).

I've been thinking of modifying my strategy to be more like branch mining, but I don't know how to work that into a proper base, so it would likely eat into my daytime minutes. My new, yet untested strategy is to create a long line downward with chimneys for light, and branch at the bottom layer. It really is better to branch mine, resource-wise.

What worked in my last game was to mine from a torch's tile as far as your arm reaches (five blocks, I think), going to that point and mining the same at 90 degrees right or left, adding a torch there. That seemed to be enough for my last game to not allow mob spawns, but with moonlight being less effective I might double the amount of chimneys vs. torches. Still would have to contend with any night-time spawns, but it would likely only be one-on-one combat, which is relatively easy.

[AllenWL]

Discovered hardcore knitting just in time to barely survive a creeper blast. Thank the gods for sheep.

On the topic of mining though, I feel like mining in the same cave more than 2~3 times is really inefficient in the early game. Since torches burn out, every trip after the first requires more and more torches to reach the ores. Even if there are ores left over in the cave, it simply takes so much torches to reach it after the first few times that it doesn't seem worth it.

[swedemon]

I'm really enjoying the new early game!

Have someone found out if there's a new recipe for the stone furnace? Or is it completely replaced by the brick oven?

Maybe I just have to make more ovens, because I find the smelting speed so damn slow! :D

[Fret]

I'm really enjoying the new early game!

Have someone found out if there's a new recipe for the stone furnace? Or is it completely replaced by the brick oven?

Maybe I just have to make more ovens, because I find the smelting speed so damn slow! :D

The stone furnace has indeed been completely replaced. You'll have to use brick ovens or a kiln later on (for some recipes).

[NotEvenOdd]

The new mining mechanics are great. Breaking down stone into multiple chunks of stone and gravel is particularly satisfying. It took a while to realise stone pickaxes are back though; in the meantime I was foolishly trying to mine coal and iron with a stone.

[jorgebonafe]

So, my trip to the desert temple was partially successful. It took me several ingame weeks of exploring to find one, and when I did, there were two diamonds inside. At the time, it felt like a kick in the balls.
After yet a long extra time exploring and not finding another, I made my long way back to my base. I accumulated enough meat to last me a long time.

At this point, my last hope really was to go caving for it. I used an iron pick to get to the lower strata, and started digging straight looking for a hole.

Two directions and two caves later, I found a ravine. Nearly shitting my pants I explored it expecting mobs to rain on me at any moment, and then I came across two diamonds. If it wasn't for those other two I found before, this story might have had a worse ending.

According to the statistics thing, I've played for 34 hours. I haven't died yet. I'm starting to believe when I die in this world I will die in real life too.