Hang in there Notch (Being ultra rich and lonely)

[Taleric]

I hope he can keep it together :(

https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/ive- ... 00734.html

[Rob]

Wow. I'd imagine he's the real life equivalent to turning on all the cheat codes in a video game. It makes everything pointless.

He needs a purpose in his life and I hope he finds it soon, for his own sake. :-(

[FlowerChild]

Yeah...

Even if his most recent tweets are the most extreme (he had a cringe worthy drunken series a week or two ago about getting dumped that had me shouting "dude...just stop tweeting" at my monitor), it's looked like he's been sliding into a downward spiral of meaningless debauch for awhile now.

Hopefully he'll rediscover why he did things for his own reasons, rather than just for survival, or strictly for other people, eventually. I don't think massive amounts of cash necessarily sucks all the meaning out of life, as much as it removes one of primary drives to find meaning.

I'd imagine he's the real life equivalent to turning on all the cheat codes in a video game. It makes everything pointless.

Well put. It's like he went from survival mode to creative and is realizing there's no reason to work on anything anymore.

[MaxAstro]

So... Notch needs to install the IRL version of BTW? :)

Reading about things like this kinda reinforces to me that I don't think I actually want to be rich... I hate struggling to make ends meet, but if video games have taught me anything it's that struggling is kinda the point...

[FlowerChild]

I think the struggle to find meaning is a fairly fundamental part of the human condition. I also think the struggle to survive or to achieve some personal measure of monetary success can act to mask that and give the perception of meaning, and the removal of that can force you into a confrontation with who you actually are that you might not be entirely prepared for.

I've certainly never been wealthy, and there are probably very few people alive that can fully relate to Notch's situation. However, having been "lucky" enough to have achieved several of my dreams in the past, the struggle towards which filled my life with a perceived meaning, I think I can relate at some level to the emptiness that actually achieving them can leave you with.

It reminds me of the "now what?" questions in this scene from Fight Club:

[Gilberreke]

I have a compulsory need to try and help people. This makes me want to hang out with the guy and try to find meaning. I'm probably the worst guy for that job :p. It'd just end in more debauchery, because I have that same issue.

This is a perfect example of why people should stop thinking "the American dream" is about wealth and material gain. There's a reason the constitution defines it as "Pursuit of happiness" instead. I take the American model as an example, because it's a well-documented one, but it's pretty universal.

I also think the ending to Fight club is too simplistic, even though I love it. I don't think there is a big epiphany to be had where suddenly you regain that will to go out and enjoy life in a simple manner. In a way, I do hope that epiphany exists and that Notch finds it, god knows the guy deserves to find it :)

[FlowerChild]

I also think the ending to Fight club is too simplistic, even though I love it.

First time I saw Fight Club (I saw the movie before I read the book), I was severely pissed off about the ending, so I don't disagree. I was able to get over it with time given the rest of the movie is so stellar, but I felt writing the whole thing off as insanity with the ending was quite a cop out.

Anyways, was just reminded of that particular scene with this conversation. Was in no way presenting Fight Club as a whole as some kind of answer to Notch's (or anyone's) problems ;)

[Larmantine]

I'm trying to imagine myself in his shoes right now... Personally, if I'd have so much free time... no I can actually relate, I've felt isolated and desperate when achieved certain goals, but really man, world is full of possibilities even you have more money than you can spend in a lifetime. I'd probably consider trying some serious amateur-ish sports/moto-sport career, or hunting or to tame a raven, or visit the poles monthly to gaze upon the northern lights, the world is so full of things, I wouldn't even need different people, I'd be ready to try things alone. I find it hard to believe that he has done it all or has no more interests or pursuits. I think the logical answer here is: he's feeling too alone, and never has had decent love in his life, he expected to get that with money. I think that's one of the reasons why simpler people (not saying that Notch is a simpleton or smth) are not always meant to become overwhelmingly rich, because up until then they've always believed that money is key to every goal.

[Miss_Kat]

Given that he is/has been a single dude, buying that giant mansion was probably his first mistake. You just.. don't really need that much space? He prob would've been better off like, decking out a penthouse suite somewhere. Then he'd have neighbours he could see regularly, things like that.

At least, that's what I woulda done, if I was single and suddenly a billionaire. No need to saddle myself down with a humongous house if I don't have a family to fill it with, yet.

[Wafflewaffle]

[quote="Miss_Kat"]Given that he is/has been a single dude, buying that giant mansion was probably his first mistake. You just.. don't really need that much space? He prob would've been better off like, decking out a penthouse suite somewhere. Then he'd have neighbours he could see regularly, things like that./quote]

I dont think he needs more people or to make better decisions with his money. He needs a "job", less distractions and more responsabilities. My grandfather always tell me that if you are stressed you have no time to be depressed. And as someone who's seen both sides of this coin, i'll take stress everytime.

Depression is a bitch becouse it saps your will to do the very things that could get you out of it. Like a fucking black black hole you just cant escape. Your body is actually better prepared to handle stress as it is a evil manifestation of our "fight or flight" instinct, its the lesser of two evils.

[Miss_Kat]

Depression is a bitch becouse it saps your will to do the very things that could get you out of it. Like a fucking black black hole you just cant escape. Your body is actually better prepared to handle stress as it is a evil manifestation of our "fight or flight" instinct, its the lesser of two evils.

Yep, as someone with depression that is something I know very well. I'm just saying the great big emptiness he lives in cannot possibly be helping. I know my depression got worse and worse the more secluded I was.

But yeah, you're right, actually being productive, feeling productive, anyway, is also helpful. Shame he just doesn't seem to have the love of making games anymore, or he's gun-shy about it now.

He could be pulling a Scott Cawthorn and pumping out a new game every couple of months, and he doesn't even have to worry about them being successful. (In fact based on what he says he wouldn't even want them to be.)

I haven't been reading his tweets, but I do hope he's at least seeing someone/getting some help for how he's feeling. I know it helped me a lot once I started seeing someone and having someone to talk to.

[Gilberreke]

I'm trying to imagine myself in his shoes right now... Personally, if I'd have so much free time... no I can actually relate, I've felt isolated and desperate when achieved certain goals, but really man, world is full of possibilities even you have more money than you can spend in a lifetime. I'd probably consider trying some serious amateur-ish sports/moto-sport career, or hunting or to tame a raven, or visit the poles monthly to gaze upon the northern lights, the world is so full of things, I wouldn't even need different people, I'd be ready to try things alone. I find it hard to believe that he has done it all or has no more interests or pursuits. I think the logical answer here is: he's feeling too alone, and never has had decent love in his life, he expected to get that with money. I think that's one of the reasons why simpler people (not saying that Notch is a simpleton or smth) are not always meant to become overwhelmingly rich, because up until then they've always believed that money is key to every goal.

I think you might be on to something with the traveling. I'd probably do a world tour if I became a billionaire. Especially places of stunning nature.

[DaveYanakov]

Kat, you're making me start to think that my intention to build a real home thirty feet underneath a decoy home and rarely leave if I ever come into far too much money is an unhealthy one. =)

I've been in his shoes before albeit with less money available. Having far too much free time, more space than you need and no one to share it with can be a lethal combination. It's one of the reasons I plan to live in one or two shipping containers worth of space should I ever find myself that alone again. Depression really sucks.

[Wafflewaffle]

It's one of the reasons I plan to live in one or two shipping containers worth of space should I ever find myself that alone again. Depression really sucks.

Dude if you ever get that lonely get yourself arrested, you get a cozy cell and a roomate to boot. You'll get food, exercise, meet new and exciting people, maybe get a tattoo a stab wound. If you think about it, its kinda like a spa vacation really.

I bet you make a skin pack on prision arquitect about it.

[murillokb]

I always had this feeling that he sees himself as a "cheater" and this makes him sad. As if he didn't deserve the success. I can see myself feeling like that in his place.

[Larmantine]

I think we're missing the point here. Most likely I'm wrong (yet again), but I think it is a simple depression that every human being has been through once or more in life, namely, we've all felt alone, discarded, unneeded, pointless, hopeless, etc. The fact that notch is quite rich makes this depression (appear) stronger.

[FlowerChild]

I think we're missing the point here. Most likely I'm wrong (yet again), but I think it is a simple depression that every human being has been through once or more in life, namely, we've all felt alone, discarded, unneeded, pointless, hopeless, etc. The fact that notch is quite rich makes this depression (appear) stronger.

Eh. I dunno if anyone here is really labeling him as special in some way, other than his extreme wealth, and possibly with his public outing of his baggage through twitter ;)

I think that it's more just a matter of it being an interesting subject for us to talk about given he's at the core of why many of us are on these forums in the first place. Thus, what happens in his life feels of significance to many of us, especially given many of us have probably been following his rather crazy ascent with some interest for years now. Given it's such a central struggle to many people's lives, I also think his situation is rather interesting given the "money doesn't bring happiness" aspect to it.

As I said above, I do think that kind of sudden wealth can act as a catalyst to throwing you into an emotional crisis given it represents the removal of an aspect of a person's life that gives many of us perceived meaning (the struggle to survive and "get ahead"), but no, I don't think the resulting crisis is particularly unique.

[Larmantine]

wise words

That's pretty much what I've wanted to say, you've put my thoughts in words better than I did. :)

Anyhoo, for me personally, Notch wasn't really that much a person of interest to me, whose thoughts or principles of life I cared for. Maybe that's why I don't see it as such a big deal like others. You guys on the forums here however, have thought me a thing or two about life (as silly as that sounds), and really I tend to view this group as people I know already personally, like friends to normal people (IRL I have never had such a thing as a best friend or a close friend, aside from GF's, but even they have become distant over time).
You will probably going to laugh but I've literally have ''seen'' some of you in my dreams, FC I think was even 2-3 times. You were some kind of god like figures in the universe of these dreams, which simply gave me advice on how to live my life and how to do certain things correctly. Can't remember the specifics, but the fact that I had some discussions in my dreams with you guys should pretty much tell you how I feel about this forum and what it means to me. Sorry for being the creepiest creep here. Depending on the next reply I'll probably going submerge back in the wall of lurkers ;)

[FlowerChild]

Eh. I'm probably not the best guy to take inspiration/advice from man. I'm just a grumpy old(ish) man that likes to make games, and claim no wider wisdom about life in general ;)

[SterlingRed]

I know twitter isn't really the best venue to discuss personal depression and other issues, especially given part of the path for Markus Persson's life to arrive at this stage is due to public criticism. But, I find myself respecting the guy for being candid. It's one of the things I've always liked about him. How many celebs do you see air out their dirty laundry on their own terms without trying to use it as a publicity stunt? I'm sure there are a select few but I can't think of any.

I don't think any of us are in a position to say what he should do or even that we could do better. Yeah it's easy for me to sit here and say that I'd spend billions wisely and wouldn't lose passion for my job and other interests, but only because that's a situation I'll never be in. Were that to suddenly happen to me, I know it would change me for sure and my current convictions could be easily and drastically changed. The creative mode analogy was very apt. Without passions outside of career and general survival, I can imagine life gets very lonely and feels meaningless.

I respect Notch a lot for creating minecraft and working through a lot of the early publicity issues and it's been sad to watch his struggle for the last few years. My heart breaks for the guy and I hope he finds something that reignites his passion again, whatever it may be.

[FlowerChild]

I know twitter isn't really the best venue to discuss personal depression and other issues, especially given part of the path for Markus Persson's life to arrive at this stage is due to public criticism. But, I find myself respecting the guy for being candid. It's one of the things I've always liked about him. How many celebs do you see air out their dirty laundry on their own terms without trying to use it as a publicity stunt? I'm sure there are a select few but I can't think of any.

It's not necessarily the best thing for him however. Given he's a public figure, it's almost inevitable someone will come back later and use it against him, potentially rubbing already painful incidents in his face. Even without mass exposure, going on a depressed bender is one thing. Winding up with additional regrets that you then have to deal with on top of whatever else is bringing you down tends to make it worse.

When I was shouting at my monitor (figuratively) for him to stop tweeting, it was more out of concern for him than anything else, as IMO, he was just making things worse for himself down the road.

Hey, if it's a sober and informed decision to do be totally candid, more power to him. I don't think it's necessarily the healthiest thing to put your private life on public display regardless, especially since that kind of thing tends to become a lifelong part of your public record now, but at least it would be a conscious choice.

I think the "old man" factor comes heavily into this as well, as I still cling to what are rapidly becoming outdated concepts of privacy and tend to look at stuff like social media in general and the way people have come to use it, with horror.

[MoRmEnGiL]

The main issue with being filthy rich in relation to loneliness, is that you live in a completely different world than most other people. Their everyday worries and struggles, you can't really relate to in most cases, and it's hard to talk about mundane things, survival/everyday topics, it is not easy being disconnected with 99% of humanity on a fundamental level.

You can adjust, but the trauma of effectively losing almost all your old friends is not to be taken lightly.

[Wafflewaffle]

I think the "old man" factor comes heavily into this as well, as I still cling to what are rapidly becoming outdated concepts of privacy and tend to look at stuff like social media in general and the way people have come to use it, with horror.

You are not alone, i've abolished social media from my life in the early 2000s cuz of girlfriend issues. Ever since I try my best to keep my friendships in the real-life. Its awesome when I talk to people on the street i havent met in years and we can have a normal conversation like people who havent been stalking each other. I dodge 7 out of 10 dramas my friends have just because i cant read what other people talked or did on their facebooks. I would recommend.

[FlowerChild]

You are not alone, i've abolished social media from my life in the early 2000s cuz of girlfriend issues. Ever since I try my best to keep my friendships in the real-life. Its awesome when I talk to people on the street i havent met in years and we can have a normal conversation like people who havent been stalking each other. I dodge 7 out of 10 dramas my friends have just because i cant read what other people talked or did on their facebooks. I would recommend.

Yeah, I was an early adopter of social media as well, as I was a tech oriented guy, and it was mainly a nice community of geeks at the start (kinda like the internet used to be). As it became more and more mainstream however, at a certain point there was a definite "whoa...this has gotten out of control" moment there and I cut myself off from it entirely.

IMO, people do make mistakes, and (within reason...I'm not talking about murder or what have you) they should be able to make them without being judged in the court of public opinion, and without them becoming attached for life. I'm genuinely concerned for kids today and how a lot of them are going to have whatever stupidity they inevitably commit while learning to be a reasonable human haunt them indefinitely. Is there any one of us that doesn't have an embarrassing incident in our past that we wouldn't want to have follow us around like that?

I also agree that having constant exposure to your past and say what's going on with old ex's or what have you because you would feel bad unfriending them is rather unhealthy. As is one of the themes of Strange Days (good flic if you haven't seen it), I think memories fading with time is an important component of moving on with your life.

As an aside, I wonder how Notch's ex feels about his drunken public exposure, including the mild vilification of her given reasons, of their breakup to 2.5 million followers. That information wasn't exactly his alone to share so publicly, and I know for myself if I were to see something like that on the social media of someone I was considering dating, it would be a big red flag right there.

[Wafflewaffle]

Yeah... imagine trying to find a decent relationship in an ocean of superficial, crazy and il intentioned people that surround someone as rich as him. Lets say there is someone he can have a healthy relation with, would he be able to identify it or paranoia would rob him this chance. The more we talk about it the less i really like the idea of sudden richness.

I have a friend that is a psychologist and he once told me how mentally disturbed the majority of people on the upper classes can be. The idea of making lots and lots of money fast becomes an addiction, rewarded by society, reinforced by it actually, that breeds sociopaths and megalomaniacs, whose children are taught that their absent parents are their role models. Extreme abuse of drugs and a disconection from reality are common. He told me about man who was diagnosticated with schizophrenia, whose family denied he was sick cuz he could still run his company. How fucked up it is to be too rich to receive basic treatment for a illness.