Better Than Wolves Forum

I did a few small scale maps for vMC before I started playing BTW. I really enjoyed developing them and I'd like to make a larger one specifically for playing with BTW. I'm hoping for any input on things to kept in mind while designing this world so that it flows with the mod rather than clashing with it.

Few notes:

• Abandoned Villages & Looted Temples will have to be placed manually by me, but I will be upholding the HCSpawn radius in this world.
• Biomes will be grouped together by temperature, transitions will be more subtle.
• Biome size will be between Large Biome and default.
• I do not plan to include alternative/easier ways of acquiring precious resources (Enchanting Tables/Brewing Stands/Vessels/Wheat/etc.)
• Sponges will be naturally occurring.
• There will be no custom Nether or End, they will be generated by default world gen.
• Likewise, caves, Dungeons, Mine Shafts and Strongholds will be generated by default world gen, I will only really have control over the design of the surface world.

Some things I'd like input on

• Size; I've never used the nether for long distance travel, and I would like to design a map that allows for this.
• I am considering adding additional small surface structures with rewards similar to dungeons found a shallow-to-mid-level striations, these structures would reference/pay homage to well known members of this board.
• I've thought about starting the player off in a temperate biome and making the furthest points of the maps the most extreme (tundras/deserts)
• I have no idea how to handle HCStratification, was there ever a tool to convert existing worlds released that I don't know about?
• Anything else you have to share.

Thoughts?

So I don't mean to be a (insert offensive word of choice here), but what gameplay experience are you providing with this map that isn't present in default maps? Maybe I'm misunderstanding you, but it seems to me like you're moving around surface structures(villages, temples, etc.) and adding sponges. I would come up with a more definite plan with potentially larger implication. IMO, messing with biomes could add some value. The idea of having to navigate over a massive snow-covered mountain range or through a spider-infested jungle to reach the only village with say, potatoes within X km of spawn is pretty cool to me.

Another thing to think about, as far as what you mentioned about precious resources. You could consider combat equipment as part of the tech tree. What I mean is that if you put some resources not normally available within HC spawn radius in dungeons, but have them guarded by some sort of boss mob. For example, if you put say, a pig spawn egg or carrot or something in a chest and guard it with a wither, or some uber geared up zombie, there's no way in hell that any player is going to get through that until that player gets to a point in the tech tree where actually traveling and finding those things would be relatively trivial. This would have to be done sparingly and with careful to avoid going down the same road that Mojang did, but I think a little bit of it could add some interesting gameplay options. Do I invest today in securing enough food for a trip to search out an inhabited village with crops, or spend it mining in order to gear up for a boss fight that could catapult me up a rung on the tech tree, but could also kill me, make me lose all that armor and supplies, and start over until I can find an old base?

However:
What gameplay experience are you providing with this map that isn't present in default maps?

This is a question that I would ask myself every time I changed/added/removed something if I were in your shoes

Here's an example of a map I've made and here's a larger one I was working on around the same time, but didn't end up finishing. I don't know, I may care more about landscape than most of the BTW player base. The idea behind my maps is pretty simple; a nicer looking landscape, with biome grouping that make a bit more sense than they do in vMC. I also made these before HCSpawn and HCHunger, and the plan in regards to villages for example is very much along the lines you mentioned.

I could see sweeping landscapes being pretty neat. Random is good but if they can flow and transition more seamlessly all the better.

On the nether, having points of interest at over 2000 block of separation helps. Pretty drastic for overworld but that would help on the nether side to keep portals 250 apart for ease of creation.

Really awsome on the dungeons. You just have to mind going overboard on the goodies in 2k of spawn or as compared to non looted places. Having plenty of more intricate structures would be really neat. There is a ton you could do that would not hurt progression but be cool to find :D

There was going to be a stratification tool maybe but I am pretty sure it was still a thought.

Im interested to see what you can come up with. I think the idea of crossing a mountain being a challenge and the mountain itself almost being a border would be pretty cool.

@Taleric - Thanks for the numbers, this is just the information I was looking for!
@erikdk321 - Definitely going to be plenty of “natural” borders like what you described.

Though, now that I know the “retro-stratifcation” tool hasn’t been released yet, I may have to shelve this project for now :[

Not necessarily, Mud - you could probably do it in MCEdit, if you know the metadata values and the rough levels at which the transitions are. It wouldn't be a fast process, but you could do it. In fact, I'd imagine you could write a filter to do it all for you, which would save you the trouble of switching out the brush every time.

Interesting, I'll look into it. Thanks.

I'd really like to see this, as I have always like the "arty" custom maps whose only purpose was to make the terrain more enjoyable and scenic, yet could never find any that really worked with BTW without later bottlenecking a necessary resource or making other resources too abundant. From the example maps you posted, I'm excited to see what you come up with (I'm pretty sure I did try Eesher Island a long time ago.)


Towards your requested input:

That size sounds good. But don't let a specific size tie you in. In this aspect, use your creative license. For example: add a huge desert with a little jungle in the middle of it or a frozen wasteland with a narrow strip of pine forests along the edge. If you are building it from scratch, put the biomes together in a way that make sense to you and help convey the picture of the world you want to make.

I think the idea of small surface structures like ruins would be neat, but keep in mind the idea behind the mod here. Don't make them super rewarding treasure troves, unless there is a severe challenge to offset the gain to be found. Everything in BTW comes with a price :)

You could start the player off in a temperate biome... or you could start them off in an EXTREME one!!! The beginning of BTW is tough to start with, but I always felt that finding certain biomes was a reward for playing. I'd actually suggest the opposite.

As far as I'm aware, and please do correct me if I'm wrong, the HC Stratification is only generated in new chunks. So if you are building this map from scratch, it will pretty much be done for you. However; if you are modifying an older map to build this, there really isn't a work around, the stratification will only appear in areas that have not already generated.[quote="Mud"]I did a few small scale maps for vMC before I started playing BTW. I really enjoyed developing them and I'd like to make a larger one specifically for playing with BTW. I'm hoping for any input on things to kept in mind while designing this world so that it flows with the mod rather than clashing with it.

I would love to see this, however one important thing to note is that it may be a bad idea to release a render or map of the world, considering the nature of HCS

I feel dumb; I've always worked on maps using a fresh install of vMC, I do believe you're right in saying that so long as this map is loaded and worked on with BTW installed, HCStratification should be in effect. Thanks for that!

TheGatesofLogic wrote:I would love to see this, however one important thing to note is that it may be a bad idea to release a render or map of the world, considering the nature of HCS

Oh most definitely. I'll have to show something when it's released, but they will be more like the zoomed-in shots from Eesher, and nothing like the full-scale isometric rendering of the larger map example I posted.

Using the MCDungeon Generator might be a pretty neat idea, as long as you give the dungeons a second pass and add apropriate loot to the chests. It is an interesting variation of placing the looted temples by hand.

I'm intrigued of the dungeon idea in general. There are a lot of small and medium goodies that can be placed in there. Potions, low tech armor, stone swords, you name it. And don't forget the extra goodies like the vessel of the dragon and all those other blocks you usually get through exploration, that can be placed at the bottom of a dungeon.

Dropping in temples by hand isn't going to be a pain at all, I've already copped a few from a BTW world and turned them into MCEdit Schematics, I just need to hand-place the BTW-specific items like the Vessel in the non-looted Jungle temples.

I'm also playing with the idea of redoing village architecture all together while keeping it simple and using the same original materials, as well as making abandoned villages look far more devastated.

I wouldn't mind if the terrain turned back into vanilla generation at a certain point if the edge transitions weren't obvious. I mean, I've seen people explore in a 10k block radius around spawn, so you couldn't make a landmass that big, but it doesn't matter in BTW. Everyone will eventually go back into the HCS range, so making a custom tailored HCS landscape would be just fine. Beyond that, just smooth it out, turning back into the vanilla generation.

One note: from my recent playthroughs of BTW, it seems like abandoned mineshafts play a large role, since they provide easy access to huge amounts of iron. Correct placement and execution of an abandoned shaft might be interesting/important.

As for BTW specific things, I'm sure there's a few cool things you could drop around the world, without breaking the tech tree. For example, a packed earth biome might be cool, with dead trees.

Unfortunately I won't have control over where Mineshafts generate without disabling stronghold and dungeon generation as well, and I don't want to bother with placing EVERYTHING manually.

I just thought about diamonds.

If you do that map, you actually have to make sure that diamonds are available. It's unlikely they are not, but you never know...

Mud wrote:Unfortunately I won't have control over where Mineshafts generate without disabling stronghold and dungeon generation as well, and I don't want to bother with placing EVERYTHING manually.

Wouldn't it be possible to do it customly from a superflat map as a starter? I know that there are various codes to generate worlds with custom numbers of strongholds and with/out mineshaft in them.

LupusExMachina wrote:I just thought about diamonds.

If you do that map, you actually have to make sure that diamonds are available. It's unlikely they are not, but you never know...

I'm not doing anything special with resource generation, it will be the same as Default.

eternal8phoenix wrote:

Mud wrote:Unfortunately I won't have control over where Mineshafts generate without disabling stronghold and dungeon generation as well, and I don't want to bother with placing EVERYTHING manually.

Wouldn't it be possible to do it customly from a superflat map as a starter? I know that there are various codes to generate worlds with custom numbers of strongholds and with/out mineshaft in them.

That is one way to do it, but I design my worlds in WorldPainter, then go in with MC Edit afterward to tweak things.

In the end, I see little motivation to manipulate the positioning and frequency of Strongholds/Dungeons/Mineshafts, so I'm not too worried about it.

tl;dr I'm not so much interested in designing the subterranean layers of this map, as I've never had issue with the Default generation in that regard. I'm just focusing on the surface landscape.

If you're still looking for input- adding the effect of entropy to abandoned structures would be kinda neat.
-villages closest to spawn could just be piles of broken stone, a bit further out you might see a few walls, temples might be cracked open by large trees growing through them.
I love the look of nature reclaiming an area.

EtherealWrath wrote:If you're still looking for input- adding the effect of entropy to abandoned structures would be kinda neat.
-villages closest to spawn could just be piles of broken stone, a bit further out you might see a few walls, temples might be cracked open by large trees growing through them.
I love the look of nature reclaiming an area.

That was the idea for sure. If you check the micro-village in Eesher Island, there is actually a third house that's broken down and busted up; this is roughly what I had in mind.

I didn't mean that you tinker with the ressources.
For diamonds you need a cave that goes down there. What if there is no appropriate cave system? That is what I meant. It's only a slight chance, but nuclear plants also only have a tiny chance of blowing up. They do so nevertheless.

LupusExMachina wrote:I didn't mean that you tinker with the ressources.
For diamonds you need a cave that goes down there. What if there is no appropriate cave system? That is what I meant. It's only a slight chance, but nuclear plants also only have a tiny chance of blowing up. They do so nevertheless.

You don't need a cave that goes from surface to diamond level, you just need a single exposed diamond vein. As far as I've seen, those are fairly common.

Not to mention that in normal generation, very few caves go all the way down anyways. FC has stated multiple times that you don't need (and shouldn't attempt to find due to their rarity) a cave that goes from surface to diamond level, but should instead mine a bit at mid-strata and find caves that way. Those are much more likely to go down to diamond level.

Derp, it is what I meant. Exposed diamond. A cave system that is down there.
Chances are slim for it not to happen, but you never know. I personally like it on the safe side.

Well, sometimes caves are connected to ravines and those ravines go down to diamondlevel, but other than that its pretty rare.