BTW Exposure

[BinoAl]

Out of curiosity, what's the biggest exposure BTW has gotten, than you've seen? I noticed this picture a few minutes ago, and never realized Notch himself had tried BTW:

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[FlowerChild]

He didn't actually try it, but just liked what he saw in the video. To my knowledge he's never played *any* MC mods, and that's the only time he's directly acknowledged one (or at least was certainly the first). I think it's a matter of principle for him, which I can understand given I avoid playing mods other than BTW as well.

And yeah, that whole thing, with the Yogscast and Notch combined was probably the biggest. It's also when I learned that I didn't much care for that much exposure :)

[BinoAl]

He didn't actually try it, but just liked what he saw in the video. To my knowledge he's never played *any* MC mods, and that's the only time he's directly acknowledged one (or at least was certainly the first). I think it's a matter of principle for him, which I can understand given I avoid playing mods other than BTW as well.

Ahh, that makes sense. The way the screenshot looked, it seemed like he had actually played it. Slightly less significant, but still kinda odd to imagine, this still feels like a small community to me :)

[FlowerChild]

[
Ahh, that makes sense. The way the screenshot looked, it seemed like he had actually played it. Slightly less significant, but still kinda odd to imagine, this still feels like a small community to me :)

Well, if you actually read his comment in the screenshot you posted, he says himself there that he didn't play it :)

[BinoAl]

Well, if you actually read his comment in the screenshot you posted, he says himself there that he didn't play it :)

...Where? :0
I took that as he doesn't usually look at mods, not as him saying he didn't play it. Then again, I take most things the wrong way, lol

[Wafflewaffle]

Ow thats the origin of the Yogaboo invasion? The more you know... i guess

[Katalliaan]

Bino, that stuff below the thumbnail is from the description of the video.

[Blazara]

I think I still shudder slightly when thinking of the Yogaboo invasions. "let thm ad to yogpack" is probably burnt into my brain.

[thekyz]

Funny, that post on G+ from Notch was what made me discover BtW :p

[Rob]

I found BTW through CilantroGamer's Twitch.tv Stream. I watched him feed his animals by throwing wheat at them. I was like "Which mod does THAT?". Looked it up. Then I was here. Funny how breeding cows without clicking is what got me interested in BTW. :P

[Sandrew]

My first introduction to BTW was actually through that yogscast video while searching for a minecraft mod. Though those two guys really didn't do a whole lot to sell it, the fact that it was the only mod that preserved the ambiance of the game is what pulled me in.

[Stormweaver]

I had seen the mod thread a bunch of times, and generally ignored it because wolf mods are bad. Then one day I clicked for the hell of it and found out it wasn't a 'Lets make wolves the focus of everything' mod and thought it was cool. Then I saw the yogscast video on it.

Then I saw how many views the video had and heard the line about the yogbox. Went to MCF, popcorn was had.

[FlowerChild]

Then I saw how many views the video had and heard the line about the yogbox. Went to MCF, popcorn was had.

I'm glad the 5 years it shaved off my life were entertaining :)

[FlowerChild]

Ow thats the origin of the Yogaboo invasion? The more you know... i guess

No, the video itself and the way they presented the "we're going to try to get this into the Yogsbox if the author will let us..." (which acted as a battle cry to their viewers to spam me to death about it) was what did it. Notch's post came awhile after by which point things had settled down slightly already, and it was really just a pleasant thing for me when that happened.

Plus, the Yogscast viewer base is of a particularly...erm..."special" nature :)

One of the funny parts about it was that when I saw the video, I was reconsidering my stance on mod packs, or at least making an exception for them as they had seemed to do such a nice job with the video (I had never heard of them before then). When their fans descended though, the manner in which they behaved turned me off so severely that any question of me ever doing that immediately went out the window and I went into "back against the wall" mode.

[ada221]

and if I had never seen that video, i would have stopped playing minecraft over a year and a half ago, never gotten involved in these forums, and never had true appreciation for a challenging game

oh yeah, and the exposure to modding in general that resulted (BTW was the first time I had heard of mods in general) is partially what drove me to go for a degree in Computer engineering in college instead of Electrical or Mechanical.

looking back on it, that one video lead to a series of events that changed my life.

[FlowerChild]

Well, there's no doubt that some good came out of it. On a personal level though: it was hell :)

I don't think I ever came closer to quitting than in the wake of that video, and I think it killed at least a month's worth of my productivity. So, it came very close to totally invalidating any good that might have come out of it too.

[destineternel]

Luckily I found BTW before even seeing that video. It was some guy with a sexy accent aka 'Battosay' that sold me. I think I actually found out about that video quite awhile after I started playing BTW and thus began my dislike of all things yogscast. But that is a whole other topic. If it wasn't for that video and the drama that came from it the question is "where would BTW be know?"

[FlowerChild]

Luckily I found BTW before even seeing that video. It was some guy with a sexy accent aka 'Battosay' that sold me. I think I actually found out about that video quite awhile after I started playing BTW and thus began my dislike of all things yogscast. But that is a whole other topic. If it wasn't for that video and the drama that came from it the question is "where would BTW be know?"

It would be a very different mod to be sure. When that video launched, I was designing steam power as my next addition, and had been leading up to it for awhile (for example, the original intended use for Tanned Leather was for machine belts). The chaos that resulted sent me for such a loop that those plans fell by the wayside and I never felt inclined to return to them (kinda like what happened to candles and the whole magic system I had planned to be associated with them when BWF hit).

Now, I have no idea whether that would have been a good or bad thing as BTW wound up evolving in an entirely different direction which steam power doesn't mesh well with, but I can say with a fair amount of certainty that BTW would be an entirely different thing altogether now.

[FlowerChild]

As an addendum to the above, I think the lasting effect those two events had on BTW (and they're probably the most significant external factors to have transpired), was to push me away from what I felt to be the desires of the groups that were attacking me.

The Yogscast crowd obviously loved the big showy tech aspect of the mod, like Wind Mills and Water Wheels, so it pushed me away from additional flashy features along those lines (like steam power).

The BWF crowd liked the potential way that BTW could act as some kind of early game bridge leading into their other "tech mods", so instead I was pushed away from additional systems that would play into that and started focusing on overall game balance in directions that were conceptually incompatible with that use.

These weren't conscious decisions, but one thing you have very little control over in such a creative endeavor is what you *want* to work on, and of course, when you have a strong external negative stimuli, classical conditioning virtually guarantees that what you *want* will change rather dramatically. Also, as I've mentioned in the past, you can't really design a game that you wouldn't enjoy yourself and have it come out fun.

In both cases I made several attempts to return to what I was working on before the event happened, and I'd always wind up procrastinating or deciding to work on something else that was "more fun" and didn't make me feel like crap for catering to the desires of my enemies. In both cases, I basically got back up, dusted myself off, and instead of giving up, changed in ways that allowed me to keep going but in a different direction. They definitely did change me though, and definitely did change BTW.

[Mason11987]

It would be a very different mod to be sure. When that video launched, I was designing steam power as my next addition, and had been leading up to it for awhile (for example, the original intended use for Tanned Leather was for machine belts). The chaos that resulted sent me for such a loop that those plans fell by the wayside and I never felt inclined to return to them (kinda like what happened to candles and the whole magic system I had planned to be associated with them when BWF hit).

I had always wondered about Steam Power (I remember the whistle!) but as time went on I didn't want to ask about it as I figured you just went another way. Glad you addressed it in some way here. Thanks for the follow up though about those two types of changes two, really interesting to see how BTW has been impacted by these events.

And even the split from forge, and the more recent split from vanilla had it's own impacts too, as you definitely became less hesitant to do base class edits after that, I remember when you refused any change to world gen because of a desire to limit base class changes.

[Sarudak]

That's interesting that it affected you in that way. I always wondered a bit why steam power never materialized since you had already put into place all the pieces for it but now it makes a lot of sense. So I guess that means that without the yogaboos we'll be getting lots of big flashy features with RTH. As a side point I always think it's interesting how you insist that you don't really care about graphics when you're mod is one of the most graphically impressive mods to me and I really love how you pay close attention to details like sounds that really add to the immersive feeling of the mod.

[FlowerChild]

And even the split from forge, and the more recent split from vanilla had it's own impacts too, as you definitely became less hesitant to do base class edits after that, I remember when you refused any change to world gen because of a desire to limit base class changes.

Oh yeah, the Forge split definitely had an impact, but I don't really consider it to be the same kind of thing as it was my decision to do that. It was a conscious decision to move in a particular direction as opposed to something that felt largely thrust upon me externally.

That's interesting that it affected you in that way.

My gruff persona may not make it evident a lot of times man, especially since it's my nature to respond to aggression with greater amounts of the same, but both those events hurt me deeply.

I've made the analogy before, but I'm basically a toy maker. I enjoy making fun things that other people enjoy, and really, it's my life work and what I consider to be my primary purpose.

When those very same people then turn on you in such a vicious manner as a result of you trying to make fun things for both your enjoyment and theirs, free of charge no less, it really does cut to the bone, and you don't feel inclined to further enable them by making the kind of toys that they enjoy.

I always wondered a bit why steam power never materialized since you had already put into place all the pieces for it but now it makes a lot of sense. So I guess that means that without the yogaboos we'll be getting lots of big flashy features with RTH.

Well, the end result hasn't been entirely negative. I think what it's resulted in is me experimenting with a whole lot of different forms of design in BTW that I might not have otherwise, and as I've mentioned before, I've learned a hell of a lot along the way.

In a simplified version, I've now gained experience with tech play AND magic/fantasy play AND survival play in a voxel world when I may have pigeon holed myself more otherwise and just kept doing what I was doing if all I was receiving was positive stimulus in response.

So yes, I think this will greatly benefit RTH in the long run as it means that I've gained a far broader range of experience that I can now apply to my own game.

As a side point I always think it's interesting how you insist that you don't really care about graphics when you're mod is one of the most graphically impressive mods to me and I really love how you pay close attention to details like sounds that really add to the immersive feeling of the mod.

Well, it's not that I don't care about graphics. It's much like the story thing for me. I'm habituated to working in an industry that has put an increasing, and what I consider to be misguided, emphasis on both story and graphics, often to the detriment of actual gameplay.

So, in response to that, I've learned to say "fuck graphics" & "fuck story", and when people push me towards either of them, I tell them where to shove it.

Meanwhile, yes, I am aware that BTW is probably one of the stronger mods for MC in both of those areas, and you've all heard me rant about it when Mojang fucks those things up with elements like horses, so obviously, I do care about them at some level. What I don't ever want them to do is become a driving influence in my designs as they become for so many other games. To me, they're a final level of polish that exists to serve and enhance the design, not the other way around. That doesn't mean I won't try my best to ensure that they match or even exceed (like I feel is the case with sound) the quality level of vanilla, but what it does mean is that I won't put the cart before the horse and make them a determining factor in my design process.

The squid are a good example. Like, I decided on the gameplay behavior I wanted with them in terms of flinging the player into the water THEN I focused on how I would get squid animations working to make that look decent. I think the animations look pretty darn cool if I do say so myself, and I take pride in figuring out a way to get them to do that (no other MC mob does anything even remotely similar to it), BUT the gameplay most certainly came first.

[BinoAl]

It would be a very different mod to be sure. When that video launched, I was designing steam power as my next addition, and had been leading up to it for awhile (for example, the original intended use for Tanned Leather was for machine belts). The chaos that resulted sent me for such a loop that those plans fell by the wayside and I never felt inclined to return to them (kinda like what happened to candles and the whole magic system I had planned to be associated with them when BWF hit).

Huh, I had always wondered about both of those systems, actually. While it sucks to know that they were thrown aside eventually because of these events, it does have a large positive impact. I can honestly say I've enjoyed the early-game rebalancing far more than I would have enjoyed a simple extension of the tech tree into steam

[FlowerChild]

Huh, I had always wondered about both of those systems, actually. While it sucks to know that they were thrown aside eventually because of these events, it does have a large positive impact. I can honestly say I've enjoyed the early-game rebalancing far more than I would have enjoyed a simple extension of the tech tree into steam

...maybe :)

No way to really tell without playing it man. I obviously would have still been the designer in that case, so you can be certain that I would have brought my individual flair to it. I can also say that I've seen nothing in MC mods, or in any other game really, that does what I intended to do with it.

I don't think it would have been better or worse...just different, and likely with an entirely different fan base (probably a much larger and more annoying one).

[Sarudak]

I still wish I knew exactly what you had planned for steam... :P