Better Than Wolves Forum

Ok so I bought KSP and installed the mod and I'm having fun. I seem to be stuck though. I've gotten to the gravioli detector but other than taking a reading at ground level I can't seem to use it at all and can't seem to get any more science out of the thermometer or barometer. I feel like I'm missing something.

Sarudak wrote:Ok so I bought KSP and installed the mod and I'm having fun. I seem to be stuck though. I've gotten to the gravioli detector but other than taking a reading at ground level I can't seem to use it at all and can't seem to get any more science out of the thermometer or barometer. I feel like I'm missing something.

Yeah, I need to change the Gravioli detector description to be more intuitive. It needs to be used in low kerbin orbit, which basically starts at an altitude of 75km. You need to get up that high, trigger the thing, and you'll get different results depending on what type of terrain you are over, so if you attain a stable orbit (particularly polar), you can amass a crap ton of science. Without a stable orbit, you should still be able to angle your craft to cover a few different biomes and accumulate enough science to proceed.

If all else fails, you can also design a rocket to get into high kerbin orbit (above 250km I believe, and I've done it even at tech level 1) where you can trigger your thermometer and barometer for additional readings to milk that last bit of science.

How am I supposed to get up that high?? I tried creating a staged rocket but I can't see any way of detaching the stage the stage above it just tries to fire and then everything goes rather poorly. Is that technology later or am I just doing it wrong? I can't seem to get above 20 km with a single stage.

BTW Sar, awesome that you decided to pick it up, and even more awesome you're doing a totally cold playthrough with the mod. Your feedback on the new player experience should be invaluable :)

Sarudak wrote:How am I supposed to get up that high?? I tried creating a staged rocket but I can't see any way of detaching the stage the stage above it just tries to fire and then everything goes rather poorly. Is that technology later or am I just doing it wrong? I can't seem to get above 20 km with a single stage.

Depends on tech level, but if you take a look at the rocket I pictured a few posts ago it'll give you an idea of one possible approach.

I don't think that one hits the 250Km mark (which is tricky to get to, but unnecessary to proceed), but I think it gets to around 120 km or something.

One thing to keep in mind is that triggering all boosters at once is actually less efficient a lot of times than triggering them in groups or individually. If I remember right, efficiency drops off dramatically due to air resistance at sea level once you exceed a speed of around 150 m/s, so an ideal design would get your rocket up to that speed as quickly as possible without going too far beyond it (you can go incrementally faster than this as you gain altitude due to the decreased air density).

So yeah, that design I picture above is staged to fire the side boosters in pairs for that reason, and then finally trigger the center one. None of the stages separate from the rocket (that comes at later tech), they just stay attached, but are much lighter once their fuel is expended.

Ok sorry I'm an idiot I just figured out you can stick other boosters onto the sides of the rocket :P

Also 100km yay!

Sarudak wrote:Ok sorry I'm an idiot I just figured out you can stick other boosters onto the sides of the rocket :P

Hehe...there you go :)

Oh, just noticed something with regards to the biome thing from earlier, as I'm doing a playthrough right now, and couldn't really understand what the problem was previously.

At around tech level 3: try to launch during the day :P

Biomes are MUCH more visible when they are lit ;)

Ok so I'm back to being stumped. I have all the T3 tech except advanced rocketry. I've done the gravioli on I think all but the arctic (there's no way of knowing what you've already done which is one frustration especially given how tight the science points are) and all the temp and barometer as well at the Goo experiments (returning the data to kerbal was an interesting challenge). At this point I'm not sure what to do to advance. I don't think I have sufficient resources to get to mun, in fact I haven't even managed a stable orbit yet although I think that is within my grasp. My biggest frustration is how my rockets always tend to tumble even when perfectly balanced. I feel like I must be doing something wrong there but no idea what.

Sarudak wrote:Ok so I'm back to being stumped. I have all the T3 tech except advanced rocketry. I've done the gravioli on I think all but the arctic (there's no way of knowing what you've already done which is one frustration especially given how tight the science points are) and all the temp and barometer as well at the Goo experiments (returning the data to kerbal was an interesting challenge). At this point I'm not sure what to do to advance. I don't think I have sufficient resources to get to mun, in fact I haven't even managed a stable orbit yet although I think that is within my grasp. My biggest frustration is how my rockets always tend to tumble even when perfectly balanced. I feel like I must be doing something wrong there but no idea what.

Have you utilized all your tech? I was able to pull in some extra science in by using my survivability and collecting some of my ships I was able to land safely.

Yup, you get science for landing vehicles safely and recovering them at the tracking station.

Other than that, use all your instruments at all the possible locations (don't forget low atmosphere and high are separate "science zones" and also don't forget to calibrate at the launch pad), and transmit results.

If you go rocketry first at tech 3, it can be tight, but should be pretty straightforward otherwise. Not sure which points you might be missing there man.

Sarudak wrote:My biggest frustration is how my rockets always tend to tumble even when perfectly balanced. I feel like I must be doing something wrong there but no idea what.

If you're at tech 3, don't forget the upgraded fins that act as control surfaces. They provide more than enough control to keep relatively straight in the atmosphere. If you're tumbling once you're out of the atmosphere, not much you can do there at tech 3, other than to try and make sure your rotation is minimal when you exit the atmosphere and lose the ability to turn.

Weeee!
Really enjoy just squeaking by in science points :)

I was actually stumped for a bit after getting liquid fuel :P

Looks like "science" to me :)

And yeah, like I've mentioned a few times here going for liquid fuel first is the hard path to take, and if you do that, you'd better be darn certain you can reach high orbit with it.

I kinda like that part as it's a bit of a slap on the wrist for going "more power" instead of "more science" :)

FlowerChild wrote:I kinda like that part as it's a bit of a slap on the wrist for going "more power" instead of "more science" :)

Choices have consequence?
WHAT SENSE DOES THAT MAKE?
Next thing you know you'll be telling the players they can't do something, or are restricted in some way...
Slippery slope my friend...

Nice job at slowing taking dominion over my gaming library. :)

Oh. If rocketry is T3 then I must be T4... :P

I have the maneuvering thrusters but every time I use them I always end up in some kind of high altitude tumble...

Sarudak wrote:Oh. If rocketry is T3 then I must be T4... :P

I have the maneuvering thrusters but every time I use them I always end up in some kind of high altitude tumble...

Ah, you'll need several of them to be able to thrust in all directions (usually 3). Other than that there's the whole thing about conservation of angular momentum that may be coming into play :)

Actually, for that part you are likely beyond what the campaign can teach you. I suspect going through the vanilla tutorials on orbital mechanics and such, which are accessible from the main menu, you'll get a handle on navigating in space.

Keep in mind though that the tutorials will likely rely on SAS to stabilize your ship automatically, which you don't have access to at that point in the BTSM tech tree, and that you'll have to learn to do it manually through applying small amounts of RCS thrust and counter thrust.

Sarudak wrote:Oh. If rocketry is T3 then I must be T4... :P

I have the maneuvering thrusters but every time I use them I always end up in some kind of high altitude tumble...

torque man, gotta prepare for balancing your torques

Hmmm... Yeah maybe understanding what that big weird ball thing at the bottom of the screen was would have helped me in my attempts to get into orbit... :P

Cause navigating by just looking at the camera is really really hard....

Sarudak wrote:Hmmm... Yeah maybe understanding what that big weird ball thing at the bottom of the screen was would have helped me in my attempts to get into orbit... :P

Hehe...yeah, that's pretty central :)

Most of the game is really played from that navball and the map screen. The main screen only really serves as eye candy and an interface to trigger various part on your spacecraft, and I certainly wouldn't try piloting using it as a reference (except maybe with aircraft in the atmosphere).

Oh...and for landing. Yeah, the main view is pretty crucial for eyeballing distance to ground when trying to put a lander on the Mun and such.

Sarudak: to use RCS effectively, you want to make sure that your ports are equidistant from your center of mass.

While I haven't played the modded tree myself, I was giving someone in the IRC a bit of help with rocket design. I found it's perfectly possible to build a craft capable of reaching high orbit out of a single LF800, an LV-T30, and four of the shorter boosters, with whichever probe core, batteries, and experiments you wish to carry.

Don't forget though: parts are modified as well, particular the weight values of early probe cores and batteries ;)

But yes, it's still entirely possible.

Sooo.... the two games I am playing are the two you are currently modding...

The fates have chosen the only two games I've purchased within the last couple of years wisely.

I can't wait to try it out after I get the little one to sleep.

Stuck trying to get my first tier 5 tech, until I finally pulled off my first near Mun approach! Using simpler rockets made it more difficult but really rewarding! I'm pretty sure I'm just going to save up my science until you put out a new release addressing later tech though. My probe got thrown out of kerbin orbit but I figure I could manage a Mun orbit at least.

Mason11987 wrote:Stuck trying to get my first tier 5 tech, until I finally pulled off my first near Mun approach! Using simpler rockets made it more difficult but really rewarding! I'm pretty sure I'm just going to save up my science until you put out a new release addressing later tech though. My probe got thrown out of kerbin orbit but I figure I could manage a Mun orbit at least.

Oh yeah man, you can definitely pull a low Mun orbit, even with level 4 tech and start milking the Gravioli detector there. I was playing around with it earlier, and at tech 5 I was able to land a probe as well :)

So I finally got a low kerbin orbit with the help of the nav ball and that felt totally awesome and now I'm ready to try for mun if I can manage a rocket that can make it there. I want to say that this has been awesome fun. I'm assuming I need to make it to the mun with the tech I have to manage enough science to get to T5? Also I'm not sure I understand the point of advanced rocketry in T4. It seems to give me a smaller engine that is less powerful for it's weight as well as smaller fuel tanks that hold the same amount of fuel for their weight. Why would I want that?