Better Than Starting Manned (Flower's WIP KSP mod )

[Stormweaver]

I kinda like the idea of the little guys getting out and climbing across a number of ladders praying not to fall off. That way, you have a reason to take more than one; spares. But yeah, I've seen how easily they can...bounce off the side of the ship for no reason.

[FlowerChild]

I could only find this for transferring crew between parts. Less than ideal it may be, but it does have that functionality.

Hmmm...yeah, not exactly what I wanted there, but the guy does have an open license so at least I can reference the source code to see if I can turn it into a docking port thing.

I kinda like the idea of the little guys getting out and climbing across a number of ladders praying not to fall off. That way, you have a reason to take more than one; spares. But yeah, I've seen how easily they can...bounce off the side of the ship for no reason.

Yeah, I dunno man. I thought about it but I think it just complicates designs in an unintuitive way when the descriptions for docking ports even mention being able to transfer crew through them.

Might be funny, but I don't think it's a viable gameplay mechanic.

[Dale]

I have messed around with the demo, not much to speak of so after reading this topic I am tempted to buy so that I can try out BTSM.. Wish there was some videos of what you have been working on, or some screenshots, anything. Looking forward to trying this out soon.

[FlowerChild]

"Balance" doesn't exactly make for interesting screenshots man :P

[TheAnarchitect]

Depends on if you're talking about game design, or space acrobatics.

[FlowerChild]

Depends on if you're talking about game design, or space acrobatics.

And here I was wasting all this time contemplating crew transfers through docking ports when what was really required was a tight rope :)

[FlowerChild]

I have seen the light! I have recognized the error of my ways! Manned missions should indeed come earlier in the tech tree!

In the spirit of my reformation, I present you with the Tech 3 Kerbal Catapult:

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...with extra batteries for extra safety!

I guess I should also mention that pressurized cockpits (or the lack thereof in this case) are now a thing. I should probably also mention that Jebediah is no longer with us.

[FlowerChild]

...and with the purchase of one additional node at tech level 3, Bill Kerman makes history by successfully surviving his first rocket flight...

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Now we're talking science :)

[FlowerChild]

Hehe...ok, I'm really happy with how this is turning out. I've played up to tech 4 with it now, and I find it diversifies the gameplay nicely with a bit of craziness.

The above is what I was talking about with regards to integrating planes into the tech tree BTW. I came up with the idea of making the space capsule at tech level 5 where you can finally put a Kerbal into orbit an evolution of the plane cockpits. At level 3, you get the first cockpit, but it's totally unpressurized, so if you take it too high (which is very easy to do...I strapped all those batteries to that first rocket above to try and weigh it down so it wouldn't go as high...and failed), the kerbal winds up dying (go go code altering me). BUT, it's still high enough that you can grab some science from the crew report at low altitude.

At tech level 4, you get a pressurized cockpit that will take you into the upper atmosphere, again for a bit more science, however, it will explosively decompress if you take it into vacuum.

This finally leads us to tech level 5, where the first manned capsule offers the ability to keep Kerbals alive in space and put them into orbit, which I find creates a nice life-support tech progression leading up to it (and beyond with the space suit thing I put in yesterday's release).

On the gameplay side I find what it does is throw in some very different missions into the mix at tech 3 and 4 where you're actively trying to do the opposite of what you normally are, and NOT go up too high, which helps break up the "launch a probe into the upper atmosphere" missions substantially as you work your way up to orbit.

It also plays nicely off the low and high altitude experiment thing, as for example, you get the pressurized cockpit at the same time as the goo containers, so you can launch one manned mission with two strapped to it to cover the low and high atmosphere and the crew reports for the same, and then launch a probe which has two to test low and high orbit (I'm going to get rid of the surface level experiments on Kerbin entirely for next release, so testing on the launch pad won't be a thing anymore either).

And honestly, it's just a good bit of "AAAAAHHHH!!!!" fun to strap a poorly equipped Kerbal to a rocket and try to avoid having him explode on you :)

[thekyz]

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[TheGatesofLogic]

Have you considered adding KIDS as a "required mod"? it has some issues (like the excessive options available) but it corrects many of the issues with the system KSP uses to implement ISP. Basically, KIDS does for engine efficiency what FAR does for drag, when in conjunction they can scale to a beautiful system that can REALLY improve the aerodynamics and thrust systems. Here's a link: http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/thr ... caler-v1-2

[Taleric]

KSP's appeal as an educational tool is nice and all but the same thing did jack for satisfying vMC play.

http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/2036 ... ig_way.php

Glad FC is saving unique challenges to enjoy from the growing wreckage :)

[FlowerChild]

Have you considered adding KIDS as a "required mod"? it has some issues (like the excessive options available) but it corrects many of the issues with the system KSP uses to implement ISP. Basically, KIDS does for engine efficiency what FAR does for drag, when in conjunction they can scale to a beautiful system that can REALLY improve the aerodynamics and thrust systems. Here's a link: http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/thr ... caler-v1-2

Yeah man, I checked that out earlier this week, and I like what's being done there, but it's a little "too optional" for my taste (I'm having similar hesitations about Mission Controller as well actually).

I'm trying to create a more unified way to play KSP career mode that's balanced around a specific set of parameters, much for the same reasons I focus on that in BTW. Thus, I don't really want individual player configurations to be part of that equation. Much like BTW, when I release this thing it will likely be with "play it or don't play it...up to you" as the only real option.

I do plan on taking a closer look at the above though and looking at the precise values it's tweaking and in what ways though to get a better idea of what I want to do with my own changes.

[Mason11987]

A.... cheap ability I found that existed that might be worth eliminating if it's not too hard.

Turns out that even though my ship might not have battery power enough to make it from kerbin, to the mun, and back without running out, if I deploy my parachute just as I accelerate out of mun orbit to a <70k periapsis with kerbin, I know that **eventually** my kerbal will land safely on kerbin.

Normally you can't deploy the chute without a battery, but since I deployed in game about an hour prior to arriving at kerbin just before I last battery power, it all worked out, and my kerbal just landed safely.

[FlowerChild]

Yeah, that's cool man. Hopefully if I can get some kind of reentry effect going, that won't be a viable tactic as your chutes would just rip/burn off if already deployed on reentry.

Also, one way or another, I plan on getting some kind of life support going, which will also take care of this from another angle.

For now, I'd advise against using those kinds of tactics if you really want to give the balance a go, because they likely won't work in later versions.

[PatriotBob]

Yeah, that's cool man. Hopefully if I can get some kind of reentry effect going, that won't be a viable tactic as your chutes would just rip/burn off if already deployed on reentry.

Also, one way or another, I plan on getting some kind of life support going, which will also take care of this from another angle.

For now, I'd advise against using those kinds of tactics if you really want to give the balance a go, because they likely won't work in later versions.

Damn it FlowerChild, stop doing this crap to me.

Soon all the other mods just won't seem that great... and I'll just be using BTSM...
CAN'T I PLAY A DAMN GAME WITH OUT YOU MAKING IT AWESOME?
Awesomer?
More Awesome...

Damn it, I'm going to go eat pumpkin pie while I still think that it tastes good.

[FlowerChild]

Awesomer?
More Awesome...

Awesomesauce :)

Well, I'm not there yet though, but I'm hopefully heading in the right direction.

The guy maintaining Deadly Reentry just put out a new version to cover the problems I mentioned above, so time to burn a few probes :)

[Stormweaver]

Damn it, I'm going to go eat pumpkin pie while I still think that it tastes good.

I've been meaning to get a new sig for ages. Thankyou.

I discovered the parachute thing by accident yesterday; it was a weird feeling sending my almost dead probe on a collision course with kerbin just to find that the parachute would work >.<

[Larmantine]

Thank you for this wonderful mod. You made me play it all night. But I'm seem to be stuck at tech 3. I don't know how to get science other than by measuring temp, pressure or using that gravity-thingy. But now they are obsolete. HALP

[DaveYanakov]

I am definitely going to have to set aside some time for this. I was listening to Chris Hadfield's interview on NPR a couple days ago and I kept thinking about this mod and how I wanted to go home and try it.

edit- Actually I am going to go ahead and link that interview here. It was frankly fascinating. http://www.npr.org/2013/10/30/241830872 ... n-to-earth

[jkievlan]

Thank you for this wonderful mod. You made me play it all night. But I'm seem to be stuck at tech 3. I don't know how to get science other than by measuring temp, pressure or using that gravity-thingy. But now they are obsolete. HALP

Have you tried using the gravioli meter in different biomes (this requires getting your ship into a trajectory that travels some distance over the ground while in space)? Also, if you can land your ship in various biomes, you can use the temp and pressure sensors on the ground to get more science.

[Stormweaver]

Also, if you can land your ship in various biomes, you can use the temp and pressure sensors on the ground to get more science.

That's a thing? Huh, I was only putting the temp & pressure sensors on things when I was going to new places. Might have to do a new playthrough now I know that.

[FlowerChild]

Ah! Feedback! Woot!

Was getting kinda lonely in here :)

There's only two biome sensitive instruments at present, as I've intentionally toned that aspect down from vanilla to deemphasize science on Kerbin. It's a space game after all, and you'd figure other agencies on Kerbin would already be testing the shit out of it so that landing in a particular spot or taking a soil sample wouldn't mean shit. On the gameplay side, I find the biome mechanic on Kerbin to be way too grindy and is really outside the focus of the game.

So yeah, only the Gravioli Detector and crew reports are biome sensitive at present, and that's only in low orbit (> 70km < 250km altitude). Soil samples will also be biome sensitive later to give reason for multiple moon landings and lunar rovers, but I'm working on a way to filter those results so they don't apply to Kerbin (at present if an experiment is biome sensitive it's biome sensitive on ALL bodies, and there's no way to filter one out and say "all bodies except Kerbin" or whatever).

That's the same reason why taking readings on the launch pad to "calibrate" your instruments is also a thing right now, because without that, you wouldn't be able to take surface readings on other planets. I'm trying to get rid of that restriction at the same time, because the calibrate thing is just silly and annoying, and leads to gamey behavior like putting a rocket on the launch pad, then immediately recovering it.

Also note that I've modified the descriptions of many parts to reflect their function in BTSM where it differs from vanilla, so be sure to read those as they'll often clue you into how they're supposed to be used and provide valuable warnings (like about not having space suits at tech 5 ;) ).

But yes, DON'T go trying to land your ship in different biomes or whatever. That won't do shit for you in BTSM. Landing and recovering vehicles does give you science, but it shouldn't be biome specific.

[Larmantine]

Gods. Spent the whole day figuring out how to create an orbit for my satellite without SAS and decouplers. I even tried sequentual exploding with RT-10 solid boosters, like Scott Manley did it here.

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Once or twice I managed to make into orbit, but there wasn't enough fuel to do a burn. Can someone suggest something? I am still new to this, BTSM is awesome but when you get stuck you become desperate.

[FlowerChild]

Gods. Spent the whole day figuring out how to create an orbit for my satellite without SAS and decouplers. I even tried sequentual exploding with RT-10 solid boosters, like Scott Manley did it here.

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Once or twice I managed to make into orbit, but there wasn't enough fuel to do a burn. Can someone suggest something? I am still new to this, BTSM is awesome but when you get stuck you become desperate.

What tech level are you currently at man? How you make it into orbit will be highly dependent on that.

Also keep in mind that orbit is not really feasible without a node or two purchased in tech level 4, so if you're before that point, you probably shouldn't be aiming for it in the first place :)