Flower's Dev Diary (Oct 2nd)

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FlowerChild
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Flower's Dev Diary (Oct 2nd)

Post by FlowerChild »

Figured I was about due for one of these in the final stretch of BTW :)

As always, rules for this thread:

-DO NOT post suggestions.
-DO NOT critique unreleased features. Wait until you've had a chance to try them before passing judgement.

Here's a screenshot of my main base in my "new" world to kick things off:
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Unfortunately, in this case I've decided to build mostly underground, which doesn't make for the most exciting screenshots, but you can probably notice a few difference since last time, and no, I don't go anywhere near that farm at night ;)

Most of you probably noticed that while small, the last release (4.89999) included a note specifying that with the exception of villagers, it represented the more or less final balance of BTW. I say "more or less" as I will of course continue to make small tweaks and fixes here and there for the indefinite future, but it was a rather major milestone in terms of overall development, as what you're playing now very closely resembles the final form of BTW.

Now comes the hard part :)

We're rapidly approaching the 2.5 year mark since the first release of BTW and working on it has become an integral part of my life. It certainly feels weird to be closing one door after another and realizing that I'll never be touching one particular system after another again.

The past couple of days I've been playing a lot of BTW, and I'm very pleased with how the whole thing has come together. I find myself with so many different projects I could work on at any particular time that I often switch back and forth between them based on my mood. Better yet, whereas I couldn't play the game for more than an hour in the past without spotting at least one thing that I felt needed to be changed, now I can just sit back and play while my inner designer voice is largely silent.

Things it has observed with a silent nod of approval though:

-Oceans, jungles, and deserts feel dangerous now, to varying degrees, but all feel like genuine navigation hazards now as opposed to just different scenery. Beyond that, each biome really has its particular feel as you move through it that presents different concerns based on the availability of particular resources or the dangers you face. Even when doing something as trivial as moving through grasslands now, there's the knowledge at the back of my mind that if I run out of wood, I'm going to be in trouble. I'm extremely pleased with that part as I feel it's really brought the gameplay into what was largely just aesthetic diversity in the world in the past. I think water in particular has benefited the most from this change. Oceans feel dark and mysterious like there might very well be something hungry waiting in its depths for you to get to close, and even crossing a river has become worthy of at least a moment of consideration in terms of whether you want to risk walking along the bottom in armor or remove it to swim across. Even during the day, working near water makes me feel nervous as I always have it in the back of my mind that one misstep could spell my demise. Overall, I'm finding these changes have made exploration much more engaging and less a matter of just constantly holding down 'w' while throwing in the occasional jump.

-As you can see, the tree line in my base above has begun to get pushed back. Even though it's a small thing, thematically I like deforestation going hand in hand with progress an awful lot, and I am also quite happy to see me using the various wood types more based on whatever I happen to have in plentiful supply rather than just always burning birch for example. While it's exceedingly difficult to run out of wood, I am pleased that wood is actually a consideration now rather than just being a non-issue due to its hyper growth rate. I also find myself valuing the saplings I gather in my wanderings and bringing them back to base to expand my ever growing tree farm instead of just burning them like saw dust.

-With the changes to push SFS later in the tech tree, I find myself relying much more on diamond tools and vanilla enchanting, which is as I hoped when I made the change. Attaining SFS has become a much more long-term or "end game" project which I don't feel particular rushed to get to. Just having recyclable iron, diamond, and pistons at my disposal feels like a huge step up to reward my nether adventures.

Now, why I say the hard part comes next, is that frankly, endings are a bitch. The last two bits I have to work on, namely HC Villagers and the ending to BTW's "story" are intimately linked to each other (guess that's a bit of a spoiler, but not entirely unexpected by now ;) ), which is why I've waited until now to finish off HC Villagers. The broad strokes of my overall plan for this are all in place, but there's still the matter of keeping things contained so that I don't wind up spending months on this last portion, while still providing a satisfying conclusion to the whole thing that's fitting what I feel to be the quality of the rest of Better Than Wolves.

So, for now I am operating under the principle of "I'll know it when I see it" and continuing to search for villagers in my own world trusting that when I get to that point the final pieces of the puzzle will come together for me. Much of the development of BTW has reflected my own experiences in the game and my desires for what I wish the game was doing as I play through it, and I think this will be no exception.

Anyways, wish me luck. We're in the absolute final stretch now :)
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Yhetti
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Re: Flower's Dev Diary (Oct 2nd)

Post by Yhetti »

I have to say man, this is great. I was into Minecraft for a while, and that became boring, about two years ago was when I downloaded BTW for the first time. I remember I had started playing it and I enjoyed every bit of it. I think the point at which I had decided that I would never really be able to enjoy vanilla Minecraft again(No turning back) was when I first got to Steel and I stated building a couple of simple machines; I felt like I had really mastered my Minecraft environment. I enjoyed watching your interpretation of Minecraft grow up, so hats off and good luck on your future game. When I have the dough, I'll try and donate a handsome amount to you.
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Gormador
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Re: Flower's Dev Diary (Oct 2nd)

Post by Gormador »



Feels appropriate.

So yeah : good luck to you FC ! And, I would add : good luck to us all, those who will die when villagers will understand that making weapons out of iron isn't that difficult. The pain is near.

(Now I actually picture Steve fighting hundreds of villagers, all armed to the teeth, and laugh at how stupid that would be ^^)


Anyway, reading your dev post is always interesting. And as this topic probably is the last for BTW, I'd like to thank you for taking the time to write those as it was very helpful in making us (well, at least me if I'm the only "dumbass" of the crowd) understand some of your design decisions that might not have been clear enough for a noob who wants to easily win the game ;-)

Thanks man, for this and everything else !
FlowerChild wrote:If you have a suggestion, I recommend that it have pure manna from heaven flowing forth from its vagina to warrant posting it at this point in time.
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FlowerChild
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Re: Flower's Dev Diary (Oct 2nd)

Post by FlowerChild »

Yhetti wrote:I enjoyed watching your interpretation of Minecraft grow up
I think that's a good way to put it. I was remarking to myself earlier this week that it's interesting in that most of the major mods that were roughly equivalent to BTW (in terms of scope anyways) back in the day continued to expand upwards in terms of tech and functionality, which at a certain point I think dead ended them design wise. Meanwhile, for the past year or so by contrast BTW has been expanding *downwards* tackling the game upon which everything else was based instead, and as a result, I've never even come close to running out of things to work on.

So yeah, I think "growing up" is an apt analogy. BTW started off expanding upon vanilla and eventually got to the point where vanilla just wasn't enough to sustain it, so it struck on its own. I think my move towards RTH and a fresh new start entirely independent of MC is a natural continuation of that process.
Gormador wrote: And as this topic probably is the last for BTW
Well, I think I am inclined towards writing up at least one more retrospective one once everything is said and done, so it may not actually be the last :)
Mason11987
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Re: Flower's Dev Diary (Oct 2nd)

Post by Mason11987 »

Just made me happy reading this. Good luck out there, and I can't wait to see how you put the cherry on the top of BTW.
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odranoel
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Re: Flower's Dev Diary (Oct 2nd)

Post by odranoel »

i know i havent been active much lately (and havnt had much time to play at all unfortunatly) but i still check the forums religously almost everyday. thats something i cannot say for anything else really. because i know no matter what the future holds in terms of games, i already have THE game. and ill never again have those moments where i have free time, but dont know WTF i wanna play.

heck, in anticipation of the biggets gameing event this year (GTA5) i made sure in advance id have about a full week free in order to play it. i figured my god, 5+ years in dev, 260+million $ budget, just the fact its GTA, im guna be playing this game for months, if not years........ i beat it and got bored of it in 5 days.....O.O

i was stunned. i mean, i had since discovering it been in love with BTW, but my recent experience with GTA 5 really cemented it for me. this game/mod/TC is truely special and remarkable in so many ways i couldnt even list them all.

so its with a wide variaty of mixed emotions now to see the mod/TC come into its final phase. its been a fantastic journey. and i have many new releases to read over to get my self up to date (your been busy!) but i keep telling my self, dude this isnt the end, this is the begining! it just feels like the end cuz of the way i got used to the BTW dev cycle. theres so much to do in BTW that you will always have some kind of project in mind or something to aim for.

i still think this mods brightest days are yet to come. and finalization might actually make alot more people inclined to try the mod/TC. knowing its a complete and polished package, that you know dosnt have any loose ends still or yet underdeveloped features will probably make it ten times more appealing then it already is. that combined with how awsome BTW is when you play it, i really think this mods popularity is soon to explode.

Once again i salute you master flower, your consistent ability to out do your self and constant quality of releases has truely been unparalleled. i along with everyone else wait in anticipation to see the final rabbit pulled out of your silly hat. :)
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Chomamonka
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Re: Flower's Dev Diary (Oct 2nd)

Post by Chomamonka »

Rather than make a long speech here's my little nugget. Better Than Wolves is THE best game I have ever had the pleasure to play, no ifs, ands, or buts. This fact makes me shiver with anticipation for not only RTH but what that game could (should) mean for the gaming world :)
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EpicAaron
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Re: Flower's Dev Diary (Oct 2nd)

Post by EpicAaron »

I certainly took notice of the deforestation aspects of the mod. Over the course of an in-game week I went through an entire swamp forest without replanting. A forest is now considerably harder to grow back than it once was :) And those vines are lost forever.
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CreeperCannibal
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Re: Flower's Dev Diary (Oct 2nd)

Post by CreeperCannibal »

My first few months of vMC were filled with notes on what felt wrong with the game. BTW has satisfied every expectation of what I wanted minecraft to have/be, the unnmovable water and lava sources, health affects with lingering hunger and HP, gangbanging endermen, deforestation, and yes, creeper balls among a long list of other things. I look foward to RTH in the coming (insert time span here).
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Mikko_blu
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Re: Flower's Dev Diary (Oct 2nd)

Post by Mikko_blu »

It's good that you are are finalizing it. It'll be nice to close the book and kiss the cover once it's all done. You've made extreme progress, and I'm even more impressed than i was the last time i came around. Keep up the great work, as always :)
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wizardglick
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Re: Flower's Dev Diary (Oct 2nd)

Post by wizardglick »

The bridge to your farm looks like a death trap :-)
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FlowerChild
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Re: Flower's Dev Diary (Oct 2nd)

Post by FlowerChild »

wizardglick wrote:The bridge to your farm looks like a death trap :-)
Like I said, I don't go anywhere near my farm at night :)

I've been meaning to fence that whole thing off, but have been spending most of my time in the nether and now exploring for villages and swamp huts since hats came into effect.
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Kezza
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Re: Flower's Dev Diary (Oct 2nd)

Post by Kezza »

Like you I am at the stage where I am using mostly diamondtools and the vanilla enchanter.
I never used these that much like now, very good job. It is now a integrated part of the game.
I like it a lot and thank you again for your gamedesign mastermind!
AdmiralJonB
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Re: Flower's Dev Diary (Oct 2nd)

Post by AdmiralJonB »

I know I haven't exactly posted much for a very long time, but I wanted to make a comment now that Better than Wolves is coming close to an end.

When I was first introduced to Minecraft, I thought it was quite an interesting concept. I played it for a bit, but I always found myself bored after I got to diamond (this was before, or around the time the Nether was introduced). There were just not enough things I felt were worthwhile doing. There may be a new feature introduced now and then, but it was all something that was over quickly. All my friends were talking about how great it is to create things and to explore, but for me: I could see no reason to do those things as there was no real purpose behind most things other than to just pass time. I have these problems with other sandbox games: I don't like doing things in games if it's just 'fun' without any sort of progression.

Don't get me wrong, I love to explore game worlds and to create buildings, but only if there's a purpose behind it.

This is where I feel Better Than Wolves really shines. It really provides that sense of purpose to everything you do. Exploring the lands now has a reason. You have a reason to dig down to the depths to get better materials other than to just speed up your digging speed. You have a reason to go to the nether other than just exploration. In fact, everything you do feels like it's all working up to something bigger and better in both the short and long run. All while having to keep an eye out the entire time for that creeper around the corner waiting to kill you. It's amazing how you've managed to make death feel so bad, but not actually lose everything you've done with the hardcore spawning. The 'persistent roguelike' term that came up a bit back is really quite fitting.

Not to say I agree with all the decisions (quite a lot actually) throughout the years, but they are actually design decisions rather than just doing something for the sake of it. A point that keeps coming up with me and my colleague about vanilla: why did they add booster rails when they had the powered minecart? Sure it was to appease the fans when fixing a bug, but then why didn't they think to work on the already implemented mechanic of the powered minecart? Or with the booster rails, why is the powered minecart still in the game? I think my point is: everything that was added in BTW always had a sound reason behind it, whether as a player I agreed or disagreed.

So I mainly came here just to praise Flowerchild for his game design. You've done a fantastic job, much better than many AAA sandbox games imo. You've crafted an experience that's both fun for the short term and long term, which is clearly not easy. This also makes me completely hyped for RTH.

As a C/C++ programmer and teacher hoping to stop being lazy at some point and starting my own non-work game projects, you are definitely one of the few game designers that have inspired me. Thank you for Better than Wolves, and your insight into design over the years.

And that ended up a lot longer than I thought it would. Sorry :)
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Re: Flower's Dev Diary (Oct 2nd)

Post by VegasGoat »

I'm new to this mod and forum and just wanted to praise your work on this mod. You've given me a reason to do a lot of things in Minecraft that I've never done before, like building a mob grinder, exploring the nether and even just breeding animals, and made it fun and interesting with a goal. Your posts about game design have been very interesting and informative, and I plan to apply those concepts to my own projects. I'm looking forward to this RTH project, even though I just heard about it. I'm definitely going to follow its development closely and donate when I can.

Keep up the good work.
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Re: Flower's Dev Diary (Oct 2nd)

Post by Gilberreke »

Haha, I'm so excited for what's coming. This is like watching the final episode of an epic TV series :)
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Gormador
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Re: Flower's Dev Diary (Oct 2nd)

Post by Gormador »

Gilberreke wrote:Haha, I'm so excited for what's coming. This is like watching the final episode of an epic TV series :)
Hey ! Don't say that ! Recent events have proven this is more likely to not be a good thing ! :p
FlowerChild wrote:If you have a suggestion, I recommend that it have pure manna from heaven flowing forth from its vagina to warrant posting it at this point in time.
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Re: Flower's Dev Diary (Oct 2nd)

Post by FlowerChild »

Gormador wrote: Hey ! Don't say that ! Recent events have proven this is more likely to not be a good thing ! :p
I'll aspire to not be a Dexter or Battlestar Galactica :)
Hipnos
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Re: Flower's Dev Diary (Oct 2nd)

Post by Hipnos »

Huzzah! I have been checking the forum daily to see if registration was available again! I feel like that time I spent two days (real time!) searching for a village in my world - on the brink of giving up hope and returning to base I decided to check this one last corner: a HUGE village right next to a desert temple! That was one of the biggest thrills I have ever got from any game, and now I get to thank you for it: Flowerchild, you are a game-design genius and I thank you whole-heartedly for making my Xbox redundant and giving a sheen to the WASD keys on my laptop;)

Better Than Wolves:- more fiero moments than any game, ever.
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Sir C
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Re: Flower's Dev Diary (Oct 2nd)

Post by Sir C »

I'm highly looking forward to seeing how you wrap this amazing piece of work up. I was introduced to BTW by a friend and had never been into MC beforehand. I pretty much only bought MC so that I could play BTW and it's been an amazing experience so fa, an experience that has probably eaten more of my spare time than any other game I've played!

I am extremely excited about RTH considering BTW was some what of a testing platform for your vision. Mad props to you sir!
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Ribky
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Re: Flower's Dev Diary (Oct 2nd)

Post by Ribky »

FlowerChild wrote:
I'll aspire to not be a Dexter or Battlestar Galactica :)
More of a Breaking Bad kind of ending :) I know I won't be disappointed, you haven't let me down yet. I love you man.
The spice must flow...

[03:28] <Detritus_> Weird, I'm still logged in her
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FlowerChild
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Re: Flower's Dev Diary (Oct 2nd)

Post by FlowerChild »

Sheesh, so much flattery. I really don't know how to handle it :)

Even if I don't have an answer every time (I seem to be way better at dealing with conflict than praise), please know that I sincerely appreciate everything you guys are saying.
Ribky wrote:I love you man.
Awwwwww :)
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Re: Flower's Dev Diary (Oct 2nd)

Post by TallTyrionLannister »

Hey FC, as a newer member of community (I came in after most of the early game hardcore changes were added), I have to say that I've always found the BTW experience to be highly polished. I've yet to progress to SFS (I was there ever-so-briefly before it was pushed up the tech ladder, and now I've discovered an indelible bond to diamond tools) yet have pumped 100+ hours into my game world. For the first time ever, I'll be venturing into The End... I've never felt compelled before. My project list is 2 digits long and growing exponentially as I discover more and more about how deep this game goes (I'd call it a mod but I really don't think that does BTW justice at this stage). What I like the most about BTW is the "puzzle" aspects that it lends to building and automation.

Anyway, I'm going to put my money where my mouth is. Just wanted to join others in expressing my thanks. I look forward to the end of BTW and the next chapter, which is really promising considering how professional you've shown yourself to be. I also want to say thanks for your zero tolerance on bigotry man - banhammer aside, it's nice to know there is a place on the internet that's safe. :)
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dawnraider
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Re: Flower's Dev Diary (Oct 2nd)

Post by dawnraider »

After almost two years here on the forums, I must say that I've really enjoyed playing the mod and watching it grow, as well as interacting with the amazing community and reading your insight on game design. It has made me seriously consider going into a field with game design. These last few changes seem like the perfect ending to BTW (and the perfect beginning to RTH), and I can't wait to see what you do with villagers.
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Dreambolt
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Re: Flower's Dev Diary (Oct 2nd)

Post by Dreambolt »

Been a long while since I last posted but I have to say FlowerChild, your total conversion makes every step along the tech tree feel like a real achievement. I can't for a second doubt that what ever you end up doing with villagers will be excellent.
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