If the world were perfect...

[DukeCunning]

I have learned late in life that "The world is FAR from perfect". However, if the world was perfect, BTW would be the vanilla Minecraft standard code base and all the other mods (which I haven't played in a VERY LONG TIME because I like BTW) would be added to it.


Just Sayin'

[Xeo]

Honestly, if all mods were built off of BTW I doubt anything would really change. BTW's features would pale in comparison to all the overpowered stuff added by other mods and most of the hardcore features would be ripped out like FC does with new vanilla features. Imagine how we view vanilla/FTB/tekkit, then imagine yourself viewing BTW the same way, what would you want to do? In their shoes I wouldn't want anything to do with BTW even if it was vanilla. But I'm just a cynical pessimist, who knows what would happen if the world was perfect?

[DNoved1]

However, if the world was perfect, BTW would be the vanilla Minecraft standard code base...

Sounds like RTH. I look forward to the day :)

[FlowerChild]

Honestly, if all mods were built off of BTW I doubt anything would really change. BTW's features would pale in comparison to all the overpowered stuff added by other mods and most of the hardcore features would be ripped out like FC does with new vanilla features. Imagine how we view vanilla/FTB/tekkit, then imagine yourself viewing BTW the same way, what would you want to do? In their shoes I wouldn't want anything to do with BTW even if it was vanilla. But I'm just a cynical pessimist, who knows what would happen if the world was perfect?

Ah...but Mojang has a distinct advantage over me in that the majority of players of a game will never install a mod. However, the majority of people that install a mod like BTW, will of course be inclined to install other mods as well.

[BrainNoMore]

Honestly, if all mods were built off of BTW I doubt anything would really change. BTW's features would pale in comparison to all the overpowered stuff added by other mods and most of the hardcore features would be ripped out like FC does with new vanilla features. Imagine how we view vanilla/FTB/tekkit, then imagine yourself viewing BTW the same way, what would you want to do? In their shoes I wouldn't want anything to do with BTW even if it was vanilla. But I'm just a cynical pessimist, who knows what would happen if the world was perfect?

But, but, but; wouldn't then players originally experience more balanced and more rewarding game, without all the preconceptions about difficulty and learn to love it, so if they would use unbalanced mod something would feel off, so most mod developers would at least try to find way to emulate their mod while steel keeping the game balance?

[CreeperCannibal]

Honestly, if all mods were built off of BTW I doubt anything would really change. BTW's features would pale in comparison to all the overpowered stuff added by other mods and most of the hardcore features would be ripped out like FC does with new vanilla features.

This brings up the memory of re-designing the big mods like Buildcraft, Red Power, Industrialcraft, ect, around BTW. I'll just say that there is a lot of over-powered feature nerfing and ripping.

[FlowerChild]

This brings up the memory of re-designing the big mods like Buildcraft, Red Power, Industrialcraft, ect, around BTW. I'll just say that there is a lot of over-powered feature nerfing and ripping.

Well, I doubt very many would argue that the result wouldn't be a heck of a lot of fun, if BTB was any indication.

The main game definitely sets the tone for any mods that follow. If a mod doesn't attempt to adhere to it, then people are much more likely to notice that something is off with it. When I started BTW, that tone was rather ambiguous for vanilla as it was definitely a work in progress. Now, the tone is basically non-existent, with vanilla seemingly looking to mods to set it rather than the other way around, so it's kinda "anything goes" with regards to modding.

[william711]

I wouldn't say that vanilla minecraft's tone was ambiguous, at least not back when you started making this mod. The primary reason I liked your mod above all others when I first started using it was that it was the only mod I had found that seemed to be natural addition to vanila minecraft. a lot of mods added industrial aspects to the game that just didn't feel right. Btw added steel to the game but instead of making it like real world steel, you made it have magical background calling soul forged steel. a tiny detail like that actually helped it fit into vanilla better.

[FlowerChild]

I wouldn't say that vanilla minecraft's tone was ambiguous, at least not back when you started making this mod. The primary reason I liked your mod above all others when I first started using it was that it was the only mod I had found that seemed to be natural addition to vanila minecraft. a lot of mods added industrial aspects to the game that just didn't feel right. Btw added steel to the game but instead of making it like real world steel, you made it have magical background calling soul forged steel. a tiny detail like that actually helped it fit into vanilla better.

Well, I think with regards to technology, it was a tad ambiguous with stuff like the powered rails not really having an in-game justification, or later on, pistons being similar. I think the whole gunpowder/TNT thing didn't help either.

I feel I had a good sense of the overall tone, but I don't think many people did. It may have had a tone, but I still maintain it was an ambiguous one and I think elements like the above didn't really give a good indication of where the game might wind up going by the time it was complete.

[Racooknight]

Well, I doubt very many would argue that the result wouldn't be a heck of a lot of fun, if BTB was any indication.

If I may speak my own mind about BTB : I think BTB was actually an okay material for another kind of gameplay. I personally liked the automated mining machines, mainly because I'm not a big survival player. I think minecraft isn't a good combat game overall; the system has evident flaws, I guess because it's never been its aim since the beggining. I'd rather play either a good RTS (say Total War series !) or any of the millions FPS out there if I wanted a combat game.

Hence, I played BTB more as a "factory simulator" : I decided to never mine by hand, except for the few materials I'd need for the first drilling machine, and rather I used my time trying to figure out a sorting system for all the useless cobblestone I'd gather, and so forth. Though the pipes didn't make it much of a challenge; water-based systems were wayyy funnier.

It's not a really strong case I'm putting up here, and I'm certainly not trying to revive BTB; my point here is that "fun" depends on what you expect from a game. As I expect RTH to be a strong game, composed, I guess, of combats features, because FC is at the commands, I was never convinced that improving the fighting gameplay was the way to go with minecraft like they did with the adventure update, or like certain mods do.

To get back to the topic : my perfect world would have games that focus on a specific aspect, and try to get it right, rather than aim in the dark for every and each player type. BTW code being the base for every other mods would be a bless regarding the optimization rampage FC's been on (may he live long and happy forevermore, if only for that), but would certainly not go well with the spirit other mods are in. And I'm not even arguing about the "no difficulty" doctrine from so-called "industrial" mods, that certainly can't go along with BTW, from either a gameplay point of view, or from a technical point of view. (Does FC's code actually hampers cheating and/or cheaty features ? I don't know shit about it, but I think so ?)

As FC, as far as I know, is trying to get a very clear vision to come to life, people that'd like to mod on RTH would have to do so only after mastering the few basic rules of that vision to use the functionalities that he'd hard-code in it. If BTW was the base for minecraft code, that would be true to a certain level too. (BTW being a mod on top of minecraft, as opposed to RTH being stand-alone and answering to no one but FC)

Correct me if I'm wrong here.

[FlowerChild]

Survival gameplay isn't (necessarily) combat gameplay man. If anything, I think the changes I've made in that regard *discourage* rather than encourage combat by making it a risky affair that's best avoided entirely.

[Racooknight]

I was saying "I'm not much of a survival player" according to vanilla MC's survival, which IMO brings only monsters to the addition, thus combat, since food really isn't a problem in vanilla. Please excuse me for the confusion. I do think your changes to survival mode are making it a true game, not just "creative without free blocks or flying", and I can only applaud your work.

My point is precisely that I'd love a survival game without combat; rather only elaborate food or stamina pools system, maybe sanity if you're into Lovecraftian stuff ;o

Minecraft is spread on a whole lot too many different styles, if you ask me.