Better Than Wolves Forum

Is it currently possible to get the respiration enchantment on the plate helm?

A quick search of all posts regarding this suggests that it was once possible using the vanilla enchantment table before the ability to enchant steel was removed from it. Flowerchild even added a special case for it making it possible to get a level 5 enchant (versus the normal max of 3), as well as a boost to the amount of time of water-breathing each level of respiration added.

However, since the infernal enchanter and arcane scrolls were implemented, along with the removal of steel enchanting at the vanilla enchanting table, it seems that it is impossible to get respiration on a plate helm. No mob seems to drop a respiration scroll, and though it was speculated that there might be other ways of getting enchantments on equipment (ranging from drowning oneself to exploiting the landscape), none seem to have been confirmed. Also, though Flowerchild has confirmed that neither unbreaking nor efficiency have scrolls, he has not (so far as I am aware) issued a similar confirmation regarding respiration.

So to reiterate, is it in any way possible (arcane scroll or otherwise) to get respiration on a plate helm?

Currently there is no way to obtain a respiration scroll legitimately, and scrolls are needed to enchant any steel tools/armor.

FC stated previously that scrolls were on his to do list for wrapping up BTW so it is possible that these may be available in a later update.

Ok, thanks for the quick reply. I wasn't aware Flowerchild had already mentioned he was still working on arcane scrolls, so sorry for bothering everyone with a redundant question.

Though to clarify: there are no secret hidden ways of getting enchants that Flowerchild snuck into the mod?

I think the plate helm has respiration built in.

DNoved1 wrote:
Though to clarify: there are no secret hidden ways of getting enchants that Flowerchild snuck into the mod?

no, currently the only way to legitimatly obtain them is as a rare drop from specific monsters depending on the scroll. you can however enchant a diamond helm useing the vanilla enchanter. will probably take you a couple of trys but you will eventualy get one.

as a side note, i suspect FC may rip out the vanilla enchanter altogether once he finishes up the other arcane scrolls. thus makeing enchants much harder to get, and there for more vluable.

Edit:

ThePuzzleMasher wrote:I think the plate helm has respiration built in.

no, they dont, i almost drowned with a full suit the other day....

odranoel wrote:as a side note, i suspect FC may rip out the vanilla enchanter altogether once he finishes up the other arcane scrolls. thus makeing enchants much harder to get, and there for more vluable.

I suspect as much as well ;)

I've never been particularly keen on vanilla enchanting for multiple reasons, amongst which is the work to reward ration being way too low. You can gain access to enchantments so rapidly that there's hardly any satisfaction to be gained from acquiring them and everyone just winds up constantly running around with enchanted gear as if it's the default. They basically just became the new defacto standard for vanilla gear, when vanilla gear really wasn't in need of a power boost to begin with.

I personally have only enchanted using the Infernal Enchanter for quite a long time now, and it's made the whole thing a much more satisfying experience overall. I really need to think about which enchantments I want and put a significant effort into getting my hands on each one.

Once I am done with the beacons (which should be sometime in the next few days...my ideas for the remaining two kept getting bigger as I worked on them, but I'm rapidly finishing them up now), I'll likely be tackling "finalizing" enchanting within BTW, which will include adding sources for the remaining scrolls, and adjusting the overall system.

FlowerChild wrote:...the work to reward ration being way too low. You can gain access to enchantments so rapidly that there's hardly any satisfaction to be gained from acquiring them and everyone just winds up constantly running around with enchanted gear as if it's the default.

I totally agree. Once you have an enchantment table, even if you have no bookshelves, it becomes standard to put level 1 erchants on everything you use since it instantly increases it's effectiveness for the cost of killing 3 and a half mobs.

FlowerChild wrote:I really need to think about which enchantments I want and put a significant effort into getting my hands on each one.

Speaking of which, can we safely assume that squid will be the source of respiration? If so, I can start work on a massive squid farm in a landlocked area once I finish up my crucible/kiln setup. Though I understand if you have something much cooler in mind and wish to keep it a secret.

FlowerChild wrote:

odranoel wrote:as a side note, i suspect FC may rip out the vanilla enchanter altogether once he finishes up the other arcane scrolls. thus makeing enchants much harder to get, and there for more vluable.

I suspect as much as well ;)

I've never been particularly keen on vanilla enchanting for multiple reasons, amongst which is the work to reward ration being way too low. You can gain access to enchantments so rapidly that there's hardly any satisfaction to be gained from acquiring them and everyone just winds up constantly running around with enchanted gear as if it's the default. They basically just became the new defacto standard for vanilla gear, when vanilla gear really wasn't in need of a power boost to begin with.

I personally have only enchanted using the Infernal Enchanter for quite a long time now, and it's made the whole thing a much more satisfying experience overall. I really need to think about which enchantments I want and put a significant effort into getting my hands on each one.

Once I am done with the beacons (which should be sometime in the next few days...my ideas for the remaining two kept getting bigger as I worked on them, but I'm rapidly finishing them up now), I'll likely be tackling "finalizing" enchanting within BTW, which will include adding sources for the remaining scrolls, and adjusting the overall system.

Yay, and I only just got my IE made :)

DNoved1 wrote:Speaking of which, can we safely assume that squid will be the source of respiration? If so, I can start work on a massive squid farm in a landlocked area once I finish up my crucible/kiln setup. Though I understand if you have something much cooler in mind and wish to keep it a secret.

Yeah, that's a safe assumption. However, I will also likely be making the squid spawning restrictions from the mod non-optional to prevent people getting the scroll through just using a regular mob-trap, so if you're going to build one ahead of time, it's best to leave that option on.

FlowerChild wrote:

DNoved1 wrote:Speaking of which, can we safely assume that squid will be the source of respiration? If so, I can start work on a massive squid farm in a landlocked area once I finish up my crucible/kiln setup. Though I understand if you have something much cooler in mind and wish to keep it a secret.

Yeah, that's a safe assumption. However, I will also likely be making the squid spawning restrictions from the mod non-optional to prevent people getting the scroll through just using a regular mob-trap, so if you're going to build one ahead of time, it's best to leave that option on.

for interests sake, will aqua affinity drop from squids too, or be removed, or something else?

Aw crap, now I need to figure out how to farm squids, ah well, good to hear that we will be getting new scrolls sometime relatively soon though :)

I quite like Vanilla Enchanting... to me, it feels like a "tier 1" enchanting.
I mean, until you get access to steel, you often use diamond weapons that you can then enchant. Moreover, when you finally get yourself the Infernal Enchanter you are able to re-use those bookshelves. And it somewhat makes sense to have an enchanter at a low tech level, since things like paper have no other use (in the early game, don't get me wrong) and are available very soon in game.
One last thing is that the Infernal Enchanter feels like an upgrade, where you can choose your enchantment and have higher level ones.
So yeah, I hope you won't remove the Vanilla Enchanter! It feels (to me at least) right in its place. But if you do... well, I'll do with it! I was somewhat scared at first by changes like HCB at first, but now I love such features!

FlowerChild wrote:

DNoved1 wrote:Speaking of which, can we safely assume that squid will be the source of respiration? If so, I can start work on a massive squid farm in a landlocked area once I finish up my crucible/kiln setup. Though I understand if you have something much cooler in mind and wish to keep it a secret.

Yeah, that's a safe assumption. However, I will also likely be making the squid spawning restrictions from the mod non-optional to prevent people getting the scroll through just using a regular mob-trap, so if you're going to build one ahead of time, it's best to leave that option on.

Would it be better to have aqua affinity drop from squid and respiration from fishing?

XantyZon wrote:Would it be better to have aqua affinity drop from squid and respiration from fishing?

Ummm...no. Seriously man, do you really want to be stuck fishing for prolonged periods to get an enchant?

And guys: I was nice enough to answer the above to give people a chance to prepare. Don't turn that into a suggestion fest as to how you think I should be proceeding.

FlowerChild wrote:
Ummm...no. Seriously man, do you really want to be stuck fishing for prolonged periods to get an enchant?

And guys: I was nice enough to answer the above to give people a chance to prepare. Don't turn that into a suggestion fest as to how you think I should be proceeding.

Squids it is. Thanks for the heads up. I already have a squid farm up and running and I'm glad that I don't have to rush on my redneck fishing farm yet.

BlackCat wrote:Aw crap, now I need to figure out how to farm squids, ah well, good to hear that we will be getting new scrolls sometime relatively soon though :)

It's been done.

TaterBoy has a squid farm on Wasteland, which as you recall has water at y=4. You should be able to take a tour if you ask nicely.

xou816 wrote:I quite like Vanilla Enchanting... to me, it feels like a "tier 1" enchanting.
I mean, until you get access to steel, you often use diamond weapons that you can then enchant. Moreover, when you finally get yourself the Infernal Enchanter you are able to re-use those bookshelves. And it somewhat makes sense to have an enchanter at a low tech level, since things like paper have no other use (in the early game, don't get me wrong) and are available very soon in game.
One last thing is that the Infernal Enchanter feels like an upgrade, where you can choose your enchantment and have higher level ones.
So yeah, I hope you won't remove the Vanilla Enchanter! It feels (to me at least) right in its place. But if you do... well, I'll do with it! I was somewhat scared at first by changes like HCB at first, but now I love such features!

I agree fully. I wouldn't mind if the vanilla enchanter gets capped at level 10 or something, but it shouldn't be outright removed. In my opinion, it just isn't good game design to make XP entirely useless up until the point where you have large mob traps running. I don't feel like enchanting should be something you only do when you've already done everything else there is to do.

SilenV wrote:I agree fully. I wouldn't mind if the vanilla enchanter gets capped at level 10 or something, but it shouldn't be outright removed. In my opinion, it just isn't good game design to make XP entirely useless up until the point where you have large mob traps running. I don't feel like enchanting should be something you only do when you've already done everything else there is to do.

You're making a lot of statements...some very strongly worded, without any "why" behind them.

Also, if you plan on remaining on these forums, I'll once again say that critiquing unreleased features is not the way to do it.

FlowerChild wrote:

SilenV wrote:I agree fully. I wouldn't mind if the vanilla enchanter gets capped at level 10 or something, but it shouldn't be outright removed. In my opinion, it just isn't good game design to make XP entirely useless up until the point where you have large mob traps running. I don't feel like enchanting should be something you only do when you've already done everything else there is to do.

You're making a lot of statements...some very strongly worded, without any "why" behind them.

Also, if you plan on remaining on these forums, I'll once again say that critiquing unreleased features is not the way to do it.

As I said, it's my opinion, going by what we know so far. (namely that the infernal enchanter would be the only enchantment source, and that scrolls are extremely rare) I can refrain from sharing it if that's what you prefer, but I was under the impression you'd be interested in some form of feedback, especially considering the existence of a suggestions section.

SilenV wrote:As I said, it's my opinion, going by what we know so far. (namely that the infernal enchanter would be the only enchantment source, and that scrolls are extremely rare) I can refrain from sharing it if that's what you prefer, but I was under the impression you'd be interested in some form of feedback, especially considering the existence of a suggestions section.

Actually, the suggestions sub-forum is more a garbage dump so that suggestions don't overflow into other areas, because I generally despise them.

And again...you're critiquing unreleased features, which is a particular no-no here considering that you very likely don't know all the details of what it is that I'm working on.

If you read through the thread before deciding to post to it, I suspect all that would be apparent, and now you're just being argumentative for it's own sake. Taking some time to think that over before posting further to these forums is probably the right course of action here.

To sum up: calling something I am working on and which you haven't even played yet "bad design" doesn't make for constructive input. It just makes you an asshole.

SilenV wrote:

FlowerChild wrote: You're making a lot of statements...some very strongly worded, without any "why" behind them.

Also, if you plan on remaining on these forums, I'll once again say that critiquing unreleased features is not the way to do it.

As I said, it's my opinion, going by what we know so far. (namely that the infernal enchanter would be the only enchantment source, and that scrolls are extremely rare) I can refrain from sharing it if that's what you prefer, but I was under the impression you'd be interested in some form of feedback, especially considering the existence of a suggestions section.

Opinions in general are fine. Suggestions outside the suggestion forum are not. Judgement and opinions on unreleased features beyond FC specifically requesting it especially by new members is also a no no.
Your opinion was based on your specific play style too. The IE is useful before a mob grinder and is in no way the 'end' of the tech tree.

Edit: Also if you read the suggestion rules, it makes it very clear suggestions are in fact, not welcome. The suggestion sub forum largely serves as a location to collect all the noise and bad ideas in one place to reduce clutter, and provide a choke point for application of the ban hammer.

I've tried to manipulate water to farm squids and while i've made very deep systems the depth itself is artificially flowing water and not source block so i'm pretty certain you actually need source blocks for squid to spawn, because i've not gotten any spawns. I've abandoned my ideas for a squid spawner using pumps. I think you need to find a pristine, unmolested water source that has significant depth in a rather dry area, or eliminate all other water sources so you only have one deep pool that was there from the beginning.

I'm pretty sure squid will spawn in any water block, source or no. After all, this is what made squids such a problem when people used water flows in their traps.

Worth noting though, and not immediately obvious, is that squids only spawn below a certain height level (62 or around there) to prevent squids from coming out of mountain springs.

Changelog for 3.90 wrote:Added spawn restrictions to squid so that they can only spawn in significant bodies of water. This can also be disabled in the config file, but otherwise, no more squid jamming up your mob traps, or finding shallow pools of water containing stranded squid!

Hadn't you noticed they were less of a pain since you installed BTW? ;)

EDIT: Reread and realised that the main point was about what kind of water block they can spawn in. But the point still stands, regarding them no longer being a pain in general water flows

Like Eriottosan said BTW changes the way squids spawn. I'm not quite sure what a "significant" body of water is but i suspect that there is a strict distinction to be made between water source blocks that do not flow and flowing water that depends on a source block for its existence. My one experiment using a 2 deep pond failed to generate any squids when i made it 8 x 8 x 8. A good 6 m of that depth is all flowing water though.

However another nearby jungle pond, or lake if we consider the diminutive scale of everything in mc, is overflowing with squid as it's the deepest body of water in the rendered environment and made of all source blocks.

Maybe 8x8x8 isn't big enough but I'm averse to large systems so I abandoned that project.

I do remember the old days when squid would show up in my hemp and reed channels though and am glad for the elimination of that problem.