Personally Satisfying Aspects of BTW?

[BlackCat]

So I've thought about this for a while, and a recent conversation on the IRC had me wondering: What is it in BTW that really gives you the greatest feeling of satisfaction?

I've seen people build enormous mobtraps and be so ecstatic that they can hardly even put it into words, yet at the same time I often see people having the same reaction after building some snazzy contraption that takes up very little space.

Personally, I absolutely love the intellectual stimulation of the advanced redstone mechanisms, and mechanical contraptions that are possible with BTW, it's a feeling that I can't really put into words.

Just sort of wondered about this, I'm interested to see what the rest of the community thinks.

And to FC, a great many thanks for all the hard work you put into making this mod really satisfying and creative.

[nmarshall23]

Two things,

The Block Dispenser, and the Hopper.

Now, that I've moved on to advanced redstone stuff, I'm so very taken with the Block Dispenser.
It enables so many builds, that just wouldn't be possible, otherwise.

How hoppers work, and filtering stuff, is my other obsession.

[8bitBob]

For me it's building the absolute most compact device I can come up with. It borders on fetishistic.

I'll get a working version of a machine made in about ten minutes. Then I'll spend hours redesigning, refining and compacting it until my brain is overworked and I have to sleep.

Then I'll come back to it in a few days with a fresh perspective and work on it even more.

It's something I haven't found in any other mod (or game for that matter), as most others usually have fairly straight forward and simple answers to automation and crafting. There's no real room for compacting designs so the only thing to do is make bigger and more convoluted Rube Goldberg-esque monstrosities, which is not my style.

[BobSlingblade679]

I first got into btw when I saw the mattock. A shovel and pick in one!!!

On the race up the tech tree to create the coveted mattock I discovered the saw. This was probably the first time I truly noticed just how much effort is rewarded. I had been making gears by using two full planks and thoiught nothing of it till I got the saw and found out you could cut corners. Holy shit, that felt rewarding! I think that's the biggest thing for me- a lot of effort is required to progress but you are finely rewarded for doing so.

I've always loved puzzles. So, when I got to the point where I was tired of manually creating soul urns and discovered block dispensers, once again, I was supremely rewarded for my efforts. Not only did I have access to this limitlessly powerful block, I also spent hours figuring out how to make the most efficient-but-simple soul urn bottler I could (which wasn't much cuz I didn't even know about using BD's as counters!).

You're right, man, its hard to put my love of this mod into words. That's just a very VERY small portion of all the things I could praise about the design and sheer fluidity of this mod FC has created and I think that's why its hard to describe- there's just SO MUCH.

[FlowerChild]

For me it's building the absolute most compact device I can come up with. It borders on fetishistic.

This is very interesting man. I don't think I've considered before that my tendency towards big bulky machines might actually appeal to people that enjoy optimizing for size.

Because you're right: if everything is compact already by design, there's no real motivation towards this kind of problem solving.

Good post. You've given me something new to think about.

I had been making gears by using two full planks and thoiught nothing of it till I got the saw and found out you could cut corners.

Oh...and wow. It never occurred to me that I had been accidentally witty there either :)

[tom_savage]

For me it's building the absolute most compact device I can come up with. It borders on fetishistic.

Ditto, I will build and rebuild a system so many times, it's ridiculous. I will generally have roughly 10-15 designs on the same thing before I find the absolute best way. Then comes the condensing. Seeing where I can cut corners (Also, on that note, I found out a week ago that you can cut corners into gears. I face palmed so hard.), and getting rid of redstone. IMO, the less redstone, the better. So, to me, the puzzle aspect of BTW is really was gives me the greatest joy. I love the ability the BTW blocks give the rest of the game--combined with the redstone blocks from vanilla, there's so many ways to come at the same solution, finding the best one is quite the challenge!

[BlackCat]

Ah, so I'm not alone in the "Make it smaller!" feeling, and the euphoric feeling that comes with making those types of builds.

I also find myself working on the same build over and over until I can't find any way to make it better, at which point I get real crazy and try to make it even better. The most satisfying moment of all in my entire BTW experience was the completion of my automatic pottery machine, and the feeling that gave me was totally indescribable.

New things for FC to think about? Awesome :)

[Detritus]

The thing that I find most satisfying in BTW, is the sheer amount of effort required to advance, but when I do finish something (Like reaching SFS) the sheer joy I felt was monumental. I am an RPG player at heart (as well as puzzle games) and so I like to have some form of end goal, but one that I can reach by solving puzzles and doing other things in a sandbox environment. BTW fits into both of these categories for me.

[BobSlingblade679]

I had been making gears by using two full planks and thoiught nothing of it till I got the saw and found out you could cut corners.

Oh...and wow. It never occurred to me that I had been accidentally witty there either :)

xD

I thought it just went along the lines of the high-effiency recipes. I'm really quite surprised if that wasn't an intentional reward.

Another example of why I love this mod that's fairly recent: I made a world with my son a long time ago but didn't do anything BTW-wise until after the update that added the Element. I worked up the tech tree till I needed an hibachi and headed for the Nether! I figured, eh Blazes aren't so hard. Yeah... Apparently I've never fought them without SFS armor. xD

I died several times trying to encase the spawner cuz I was a bit slow at first and something like ten of them (maybe more) were flying around me raining death from above by the time I even got up to the damn thing. I made it out of cobblestone, which I harvested by pick rather than a stone-generator cuz I didn't have BD's yet, obviously. Such a simple but well-thought-out change caused me to do several things I never would have done otherwise. Like going to the Nether in the first place. Before I found BTW I only went there for glowstone and then I was done. I went and found a fortress when I got BORED and figured I'd never been there so what the hell?

Now, I NEED the nether. I NEED blaze rodS. PLURAL! Not just one rod to make a single brewing stand for potions I'll never use, but one for a stand for fire resistance potions, more for combining with slimeballs to make the mat the potions are made from, and hibachis so I can progress. And since I needed it earlier in the tech tree it incentivized me to put the effort (and my own blood) into converting that blaze spawner into a dual-purpose farm: moss stone and blaze rods.

I'm kinda sad I didn't join BTW earlier than I did, because I think the emergent gameplay derived from his design decisions is more apparent when you've lived in the status quo and then he topples your world and says, "HCB is default now :P" for example. HCB bucket has been praised to death already, so I won't go there.

Anyway, thanks so much, FC. As far as recent changes, the addition of the element has got to be my favorite.


--edit--
fail quote

[BobSlingblade679]

--edit--
double post; sorry, slow intarwebz

[8bitBob]

Good post. You've given me something new to think about.

Heh, it's embarrassing how pleased I am by this. I guess I really am just a fanboy at heart.

To be honest though I actually thought this was an intended design decision. These emergent, dynamic solutions to problems just seem so quintessentially BTW, and yet eerily reminiscent of designing contraptions in vMC.

Although, now thinking about it, that makes sense. Everything automated or contraption-like in vMC is essentially unintended, so it makes sense that BTW would feel the same when the problems aren't designed with a specific solution in mind. The best kind of puzzles are always the open ended kind that no one even told you was a puzzle.

Ah, so I'm not alone in the "Make it smaller!" feeling, and the euphoric feeling that comes with making those types of builds ... and the feeling that gave me was totally indescribable.

What's funny is trying to explain this to other people. I have many times tried in vain to explain to my friend why being a block smaller on the X axis is so God damn cool and how it took me four hours to come up with. I damn near lost my shit when I made a break through with my fully auto kiln/cauldron/crucible and compacted it to a 3x7x6, yet my friend couldn't care less.

[FlowerChild]

To be honest though I actually thought this was an intended design decision. These emergent, dynamic solutions to problems just seem so quintessentially BTW, and yet eerily reminiscent of designing contraptions in vMC.

The optimization part really isn't, as it isn't something I focus on myself as a player (I tend to build *really* big and like the aesthetic of doing so).

Game design wise, I largely focus on the big machines with interlocking parts because I feel that MC shouldn't be played in the crafting grid, and that designing and building stuff yourself in 3D out of blocks is really where the fun is at.

To me, assembling the engine out of parts is way cooler than buying it pre-assembled, and in a game that provides you the freedom to do so, then I think that the more stuff you construct yourself, the cooler and more satisfying it is when you complete a project.

So yeah, thanks again for pointing out the rationale behind this play-style to me. I always knew that people were into optimizing this way, but I didn't quite "get it" especially in terms of why they'd be draw to BTW if they wanted small contraptions. Now it all makes sense :)

[8bitBob]

To me, assembling the engine out of parts is way cooler than buying it pre-assembled, and in a game that provides you the freedom to do so, then I think that the more stuff you construct yourself, the cooler and more satisfying it is when you complete a project.

Coincidentally, one of the first things I ever made in Garry's Mod was a working car that was powered by exploding barrels. It only lasted a few minutes before exploding but holy shit did I love that thing, so I definitely can agree with this.

So yeah, thanks again for pointing out the rationale behind this play-style to me. I always knew that people were into optimizing this way, but I didn't quite "get it" especially in terms of why they'd be draw to BTW if they wanted small contraptions. Now it all makes sense :)

Glad to have been of help. :)

[FlowerChild]

Actually, just a little follow up: in analyzing my own tendencies as a player, this actually makes a lot of sense.

A big part of my "job" in making the mod, and what I had been doing professionally so long, involves optimizing. Thus, it's a pattern of thought that typifies work for me rather than play. That kinda explains why I don't lean towards it as recreation.

On the other hand, what I really don't do much of at all is work with my hands and build actual physical objects. I think in that sense, I find a great deal of satisfaction in building things in MC (although it isn't physical, it creates the appearance of it being so) and building them very large as the objects physical presence when I'm done relates directly to what I am deriving satisfaction from (the act of building).

Also, from a in-game design standpoint, I usually tend to build so that I can expand upon a machine's design later if necessary, and leaving lots of open space lends itself to that.

So yeah, now that I understand how you guys play it, the above represents how I do by contrast ;)

[Panda]

How beautifully i can make my dream empire with Better than wolves and my texture pack! And completely legit!

[BlackCat]

I'm glad that people are being so open and engaged in this type of topic, I was worried about offending FC with a "this is my favorite part of BTW even though it's only a small part" type of situation, but thankfully it was not misconstrued as such. It's great to see everyone's opinions, especially that of 'the man himself.' My understanding of the mod, and of the community, has certainly benefitted from this.

Thank you all :)

[SterlingRed]

Fantastic Flaming Phallus.

Other than that, one of my favorite features of btw is that most of the progression through the mod is spent actually playing in the game environment. I know this might be a little bit of a strange thing to notice, but seriously in many of the other major tech mods, most of your game progression is through spending absurd amounts of time in crafting grids and block GUI's. We make stuff in btw by building machines to do it, not by making it all in the crafting grid. I like that.

And milk tossing villagers to man the phallus.

[dawnraider]

I have a similar veiwpoint to FC. I love having giant imposing structures that I can say "man, I spent a lot of time on that, but it loos really cool" to. But I don't like those buildings to be useless, and btw allows me to fill those buildings with contraptions. I ,like sterlingred, also love the effort it takes tobprogress, but unlike some mods, you aren't just grinding to a goal, there are things to build in order to progress, not just random items that are stupidly expensive .

[Ferrus.Manus]

I think my favorite aspect of BtW is that I don't have a favorite aspect. I find the mod so well-rounded and balanced that no feature or aspect really stands out for me, they are all really good.

[shifty]

So yeah, thanks again for pointing out the rationale behind this play-style to me. I always knew that people were into optimizing this way, but I didn't quite "get it" especially in terms of why they'd be draw to BTW if they wanted small contraptions. Now it all makes sense :)

What's great is that both styles of play work fantastically. Take for instance the gearbox and its rules (max axle length 3, gearbox won't power another gearbox next to it), you get to build a massive structure and I get to solve a spatial puzzle as I try and condense a machine into the smallest possible space.

I think part (or all) of the reason I love this mod is how naturally it extends the vanilla Minecraft experience. I always felt that what vMC lacked was a motive for building unless you are the architectural type. There are few people, such as Etho, who make impressive builds using vanilla but what you've provided is a reason to build structures and the means to do so. There are no one block solutions here :)

[KittenToaster]

In my mind vMC gave us a good set of outputs such as light, sound and moveable blocks (pistons) but there is nothing on the input side to actually utilize them aside from BUD pulses.

BTW builds on this and provides the ability to monitor and correct the world around you through various inputs, detector blocks, lens, buddy blocks, etc. With those tools pretty much anything is possible without any human interaction. Chickens glitching into walls and suffocating when the chunk reloads was my last project that is relevant to this thread, DB doesn't see a chicken, so dispense eggs until one spawns and it fixes itself.

So yep, personally satisfying aspects of BTW ... I would say the ability to read the world around you and automate/fix itself, or alert the player when a device has gone ... "tits up"

Granted when you combine mechanical / redstone circuits and have no real indication of what x,y,z position you are building at can be mind boggling at times, but I like it that way, building modular circuits is much more fun than a single block solution (hello Buildcraft quarries :( /sigh )

EDIT Though != Through. XD

[OlbaiD]

For me, going through the ages of progression, reaching the next level in the "tech tree", is very satisfying - because i like the idea to upgrade myself and my "base", going better and stronger.

Also, trying to combine the aesthetic side of the game with the mechanical side of the mod is also very interesting.

Enderman hunt has become funnier and challenging w/ the changes. Never really cared that much from them. Now i see one and start running to kill them.

[nmarshall23]

For me it's building the absolute most compact device I can come up with. It borders on fetishistic.

I'll get a working version of a machine made in about ten minutes. Then I'll spend hours redesigning, refining and compacting it until my brain is overworked and I have to sleep.

Then I'll come back to it in a few days with a fresh perspective and work on it even more.

After reading this, and playing for a bit, yea.
I also end up doing this too.
Hmm, at times I enjoy re-engineering.. Often the first iteration of a machine isn't as aesthetically pleasing as I would like.

I've redesigned my wood chipper 4 times, this last one will be more about being aesthetically as pleasing as possible. Showy even.

Or as in a recent case, my auto pottery machine was causing me a lot a lag.
My frame rate would drop when ever I got close to it.
I figured that lag was because I was running several redundant turn tables all of the time.

Back to the OP, good insight, 8bitBob, I do like that, TMTOWTDI.
Oh dear, my Perl roots are showing.

[devak]

My most satisfying aspect of BTW, is that everything has it's own goal, needs and prerequisites.

BTW makes sense out of a messy game. I get XP from mobs only, Bonemeal acts the way its should, animals pick up wheat (it's baffling Mojang never added this), and i have blocks to interact with the world. Redstone has a purpose.

It is very satisfying that BTW makes it a real game and not a mess of features

[FlowerChild]

animals pick up wheat (it's baffling Mojang never added this)

I think this comes down to Mojang not wanting to encourage automation. You see it in a lot of their design decisions, like with regards to mob traps and such.

I honestly think they want the game to basically be an RPG, when it has the potential to be so much more.