BTW + Buildcraft

[FlowerChild]

Well, after eying it for a very long time, I was finally convinced to give Buildcraft a try when SpaceToad included engines to power his devices with the latest release.

I started up a new world to that end, and have been playing it the past couple of days, and I have to say...it's a rather interesting mod to combine with BTW, and by "interesting" I mean both entertaining, and weird :)

I was just inspired to climb a mountain and take the following screen-shot which I think illustrates what I mean.

I would like to entitle it simply as "Anachronism" :)

[KriiEiter]

When I first started playing BTW I actually used both together (just the pipes) but I soon found pipes to be overpowered for little to no effort involved.

I agree it is quite an interesting mod, just doesn't quite fit with the feel of BTW or vM.

It's great at doing what it tries to do, and I understand why people love it, but BTW just works better for me on its own.

Looks like you had some fun with mining there. ;D

Edit: I love how you have the BTW stuff in a separate little building, haha.

[FlowerChild]

When I first started playing BTW I actually used both together (just the pipes) but I soon found pipes to be overpowered for little to no effort involved.

I agree it is quite an interesting mod, just doesn't quite fit with the feel of BTW or vM.

It's great at doing what it tries to do, and I understand why people love it, but BTW just works better for me on its own.

Looks like you had some fun with mining there. ;D

Edit: I love how you have the BTW stuff in a separate little building, haha.

Well, it just kinda evolved that way :)

I've been playing it totally "legit", but I was of course compelled to start playing with the Buildcraft stuff first since I'd never used it before. The large tower was my starting location, and I mined downwards to bedrock to get the stuff I needed to build some machines. I started with some mining devices within the tower itself, and used all the cobble I got from those to auto-build the large walls around the compound.

While I did that, I started a hemp-farm in front of the tower (it's behind that large tree, so you can't see it in the screen), and collected a bunch of wolves and dung to prepare myself for the BTW stuff later.

Next was the quarry within the compound, but after constructing it, I still hadn't found any slimes and realized that I was going to have to use wind for power in this world. Given I didn't have much space to build a Wind Mill, I decided I'd build a village next to my compound with specialized BTW buildings (a wind mill, green-house, tannery, etc.) that would all be powered from 1 Wind Mill (just for a different design-challenge).

I didn't really intend to segregate the two mods like that, it just kind happened ;)

But yeah man, I agree with you. While I'm having fun with Buildcraft, and it's making for an interesting diversion, there's no way I'll wind up integrating it into my main save. It's just a little too far removed from vanilla for me to play it in the long-term.

[PatrickSJ]

I've tried BuildCraft with BTW but the meshing and disparity in effort was too drastic. BuildCraft felt too easy to use just like Industrial Craft.

Now, Eloraam's Red Power Wiring. That almost fits BTW. Just need to put iron & redstone in the crucible to get the redstone ingot. Then do an extrusion to make wires...

Hm. An extruder. Mechanical power and it can turn out glass panels/moulding/corners, iron/gold panels/moulding/corners.

[Urian]

Trying out new mods is a great way if you want to try something different :) With the Forge it should also be easier to get them to work together so no need to keep the more extensive mods separate. I'm also very doubtful that they'll make it into my main save unless they fit the mood (the only content mod I use other than BTW is Risugami's shelf mod and even that one isn't in my current main world) but for separate worlds it's a very good way to try something new and perhaps get new ideas :)

[FlowerChild]

I've tried BuildCraft with BTW but the meshing and disparity in effort was too drastic. BuildCraft felt too easy to use just like Industrial Craft.

Now, Eloraam's Red Power Wiring. That almost fits BTW. Just need to put iron & redstone in the crucible to get the redstone ingot. Then do an extrusion to make wires...

Hm. An extruder. Mechanical power and it can turn out glass panels/moulding/corners, iron/gold panels/moulding/corners.

Well, in all fairness to SpaceToad, the inclusion of the engines has made Buildcraft much more interesting from a gameplay perspective IMO. It turns the mod into one that just automates everything into one with its own gameplay progression. Like at the start, you're stuck with wooden engines which really can't do much of anything (other than pump pipes), then you develop a very heavy dependance on coal that leaves you always searching for more. Finally, the oil thing has you constantly feeding your machines with the stuff to keep them going.

For example, I've already completely dried up an oil-well on that quarry in the picture, and I still haven't hit bedrock (luckily found another well relatively close-by).

One thing I must admit that I like about the mod is that it shifts the gameplay back towards the surface, which is a nice change of pace from my usual subterranean lair. Since mining can largely be automated, and since you spot oil on the surface it effectively allows you to live above ground again (which is part of the reason I was inspired to build my "BTW village" above-ground). Personally, I think that aspect of how he implemented oil was quite a smart design-decision.

I'll likely also be giving RedPower a try with this world, as I started this largely as a compatibility test between BTW and the other major Forge-based mods. I didn't want to install them all at once however, as I wanted to be able to analyze the gameplay of each individually, which would be rather hard to do with the number of features the two combined would have thrown at me all at once :)

[KriiEiter]

Finally, the oil thing has you constantly feeding your machines with the stuff to keep them going.

For example, I've already completely dried up an oil-well on that quarry in the picture, and I still haven't hit bedrock (luckily found another well relatively close-by).

One thing I must admit that I like about the mod is that it shifts the gameplay back towards the surface, which is a nice change of pace from my usual subterranean lair. Since mining can largely be automated, and since you spot oil on the surface it effectively allows you to live above ground again (which is part of the reason I was inspired to build my "BTW village" above-ground). Personally, I think that aspect of how he implemented oil was quite a smart design-decision.

That actually sounds quite interesting. I may have to give that another try. The reason I disliked pipes was because of the magical flow they had too, but I really love just watching items scoot through them, it's somehow relaxing.

The oil thing also sounds pretty neat. This could make a reason for Nether traveling to be useful.

[TyberAlyx]

Hello, I have been looking around in this forums for many weeks now but this topic really pushed me to do my first post. Having mods with better than wolves is a really my kind of style.
But now I want to ask about your opinion on equivalent exchange, have you looked on to that? I have been using it with better than wolves and so far my experience is easy yet it is fun in a way because I build more and resource are easy to get without the feeling of cheating like Too many items. I haven't really tried Buildcraft but I looked on to it for many times now and It has been very interesting.

[Flesh_Engine]

Personally i like the pipe system of Buildcraft but not the quarries and the Engines are too out there imo.

But the pipes are nice :)

[FlowerChild]

Personally i like the pipe system of Buildcraft but not the quarries and the Engines are too out there imo.

But the pipes are nice :)

Well, to my mind, the engines just serve to balance the other aspects of the mod. They basically base them around finite resources which are consumed through use rather than just basing them off an infinite source of redstone current.

The way I see it, it's what turns the other aspects of the mod from just being conveniences that make playing Minecraft ridiculously easy into an actual gameplay feature. It won't make much of a difference to people that use TMI or whatever, but to people that actually play Minecraft as a game, it's a pretty huge step-forward for the mod IMO.

[Urian]

I just started testing buildcraft (just = less than 10 minutes ago) an I can't decide how I feel about it. I'm guessing I'll like it better after a while but starting off is weird since the documentation/how-to in the thread is shit (probably since he sells a guide to it) and I'm still trying to figure out what half of the stuff do. Currently I'm stumped about changing the size of a quarry, it seems like whenever I use a non-standard size, it also removes the quarry block - this is a good example of something I'd like more documentation about. Now, perhaps I've just gotten spoiled with the amount of documentation/tutorials/guides for BTW but having no idea what the stuff does do take away from my enjoyment of the mod.

On a side note, shouldn't this topic be in the off-topic section? :p

[KriiEiter]

Personally i like the pipe system of Buildcraft but not the quarries and the Engines are too out there imo.

But the pipes are nice :)

Well, to my mind, the engines just serve to balance the other aspects of the mod. They basically base them around finite resources which are consumed through use rather than just basing them off an infinite source of redstone current.

The way I see it, it's what turns the other aspects of the mod from just being conveniences that make playing Minecraft ridiculously easy into an actual gameplay feature. It won't make much of a difference to people that use TMI or whatever, but to people that actually play Minecraft as a game, it's a pretty huge step-forward for the mod IMO.

Technically there's a redstone engine ;D (however slow it is, but I think you can boost it by powering it with other redstone engines?).

And yes I love that there's actually a power source now, this may actually cause me to start using pipes again.

But on the other hand, pipes take away from the challenges of hoppers/vertical transport which I also think is fun to design.

I guess it really boils down to which you prefer: ease of transport, or fun through challenging design.

[FlowerChild]

I just started testing buildcraft (just = less than 10 minutes ago) an I can't decide how I feel about it. I'm guessing I'll like it better after a while but starting off is weird since the documentation/how-to in the thread is shit (probably since he sells a guide to it) and I'm still trying to figure out what half of the stuff do. Currently I'm stumped about changing the size of a quarry, it seems like whenever I use a non-standard size, it also removes the quarry block - this is a good example of something I'd like more documentation about. Now, perhaps I've just gotten spoiled with the amount of documentation/tutorials/guides for BTW but having no idea what the stuff does do take away from my enjoyment of the mod.

Really? I didn't have much trouble with it. Check out SpaceToad's YouTube channels as he has detailed videos on pretty much every feature (like 10+ minutes each).

As I said though, this really isn't something I'll be including in my main save, and it doesn't feel particularly "right" to me. I consider this just a big experiment with the other Forge mods to see how well they all work together.

On a side note, shouldn't this topic be in the off-topic section? :p

Not sure about that one since it is about BTW + Buildcraft (not just Buildcraft alone).

Technically there's a redstone engine ;D (however slow it is, but I think you can boost it by powering it with other redstone engines?).

And yes I love that there's actually a power source now, this may actually cause me to start using pipes again.

Well, the engine you are referring to is the wood engine, and it can only really be used to power pipes. Anything beyond that you need either coal-based on oil-based engines.

If you're just using pipes though, you are unlikely to see any real difference from the inclusion of engines.

But on the other hand, pipes take away from the challenges of hoppers/vertical transport which I also think is fun to design.

I guess it really boils down to which you prefer: ease of transport, or fun through challenging design.

From a gameplay perspective BTW and BC conflict pretty harshly IMO, and obviously, my preference is for the item transportation methods in BTW.

[Deepsniper]

I like the idea of mixing buildcraft and BTW together. I was looking at it a while back but now it looks more appealing. I believe this would be a nice way to work together with BTW when future ages in the tech tree are developed.

[Urian]

Ok, now I've gotten it to work (mostly, I think) and have played around a bit more. Yeah, it seems to be an ok mod but not really something that fits the feel/atmosphere of Minecraft and if I want modern tech, Industrial Craft -when Alblaka releases IC2- will probably be an option I enjoy more (IC was the first mod I used and I found out about and got interested in BTW from a post Flower made in the IC thread.

[CommisarCain]

I played pretty IC pretty extensively and got into BTW a little while ago from people comparing them on the forums. I have yet to try BuildCraft. Thinking about it though. The ideal set up for me would be that BC or IC would be like an advancement in BTW. An example being I need to build up the tech in BTW to be able to efficiently attempt to upgrade to IC/BC stuff. Needing to smelt steel to make basic machines to make composites. Needing a water wheel to work up to solar power. That sort of thing. But advanced society still needs glue. Read at maximum upgrade I would expect to still need many aspects of BTW. Alot of those modders also dont want to take the time to work the minecraft chutzpa into their mods like BTW either.

Btw is awesome I love the hoppers, pulleys, and platforms. And the hemp. Finally Hemp has its proper place in society.

Edit: Reading that it sounds stilted. I was trying to be brief :)

[dyrewulf]

I had to register to the forum so I could get in on this discussion. Having used all 3 of the major Forge mods together for some time now, this is an interesting topic for me, and I think it's good to see you (Flower) getting to know the other mods that many people will be using with yours.

It's clear there are some distinct differences in approach between Spacetoad and yourself, but both mods offer features that I've found indispensable for building a complete automated system. It may be that in time BTW will incorporate automated mining systems, but right now, the dispenser block is the only thing that could be used for this, and it's obviously not a practical mining solution.

I also like the way the buildcraft tools can be used for many purposes besides the immediately obvious, especially when paired with RedPower and BTW. For example, quarries and builders are a great combo for tree farming. The quarry will get the wood, and the builder will plant the saplings, in quantity. My tree farm system is far more productive than anything that could be made with BTW alone, and it really caused me to need to think outside the box. Pretty much by accident I discovered that the BTW detector block works as a stop for the quarry, which is essential for a tree farm, because by default the quarry will simply mine to bedrock, which will destroy the planting system. I have 2 detectors per farm, one on the level of the sapling, and one right below that. When my timer based system detects that no wood has been quarried for a set amount of time, a piston pulls down the upper detector, and the quarry then mines off the stumps. It won't mine below the floor due to the 2nd detector. When enough time has passed to allow the quarry to finish clearing the stumps, the upper detector slides back into place and the builder plants new saplings, which get quarried off as they grow.

One other mod I use in combination that helps to offset the "overpoweredness" of buildcraft is Strategic OreGen, which makes iron, gold, and coal hard to find (you must search for trace deposits, then dig and explore nearby caves to find the large snake-like deposit that will inevitably be somewhere nearby). It is very much in keeping with the limited-supply oil in the latest version of buildcraft. Once you find the veins, you then need to quarry them out, then transport it to a central location, etc.. I think these are good additions to the game, giving us more of a purpose to put these systems to use for us, and could be further improved upon if it were to become a standard feature of either BTW or Buildcraft.

Thanks for a great mod, I certainly appreciate that there are people like you willing to put the time and effort into this, and then to provide it freely to the rest of us who get to reap the benefits.

[Urian]

Another mod I've been playing around with latey is Millénaire and it looks like it will join Forge as well :) So far I'm not certain what can be built with it and BTW in tandem but it sure is a fun diversion and a good source of glass (with the right type of village) that still requires a decent amount of effort.

[Gdnite]

I'm playing BTW with Buildcraft and I love the play style looking for oil adds a whole new type of gameplay to it. I think its fun to play with and if it had the balance BTW does i think it would be great.

[Brethern]

First visit to the forums and I'm glad to see this being discussed.

I started playing minecraft the beginning of this year. Very quickly I got bored of SSP since I'm not a creative person and I'm not the kind of guy who can make their own fun. So I started playing SMP that got boring since it was the same thing. I started to think why? The reason is that I need something to work towards I want to build things legit and sitting infront of 8 furnaces smelting cobble isn't fun.

BTW Buildcraft and IC change that. You start off normally but eventually you can automate things. BTW allows fire to be harnessed as a weapon and allows food to be cooked enmass. Buildcraft gives you to ability to do tedious tasks with ease. IC well it speaks for itself you need to have a basic concept of engineering to get full efficiency out of it.

Each mod by itself gives you things to do. But all together it gives minecraft a flavor that only those who tasted can understand.

[PringleMan]

YAY I am fantastically happy that FC gave it a try!

At the very least you could look at it as something for much further up the Tech Tree. I agree that BC does NOT mesh well into Minecraft in general. A large part of it is the texturing, its just too removed from the general look and feel. Redstone is a bit different which is why I love RedPower, plus most people hide their redstone contraptions and the cover plates from RedPower are great for that. Buildcraft kind of has to be out in the open though.

I think if the mod had a more "pneumatic tube" feel to it, it would not be so estranged from BTW. The engines were a right step, but after a while they still feel like you are just powering them, and I am not entirely sure how one might fix that.

[Deepsniper]

Been playing with buildcraft, redpower and BTW for a little bit not aka about 12-13 hours and I really like it. The biggest issue I've run into so far as an annoyance is how overpowered the pipes really are. I mean 2 cobble and 1 glass and you get 8 pieces of pipe really? The rest of it togehter is pretty fun and well the quarry I have setup is a nice 22x22 one that I plan on turning into a mob farm, the things you can do when you realize how you can mix mods together. I don't think I'll be using hoppers much anymore seeing as the diamond pipes can sort things out per the block (which I find insanely overpowered). I'll post pictures of everything together on my BTW world thread.

[Brethern]

Don't quote me on this but I do believe spacetoad did license Buildcraft under open source. Meaning that you can develop for it.

That being said it's possible for a user to integrate BC in BTW much more cleanly. Then they can distribute their code for others to see after giving spacetoad a heads up.

[Deepsniper]

-shivers-

Now that is a scary thought... steel pipes? nethercoal powered quarries? or even mech powered quarries....

Edit: Does anyone know if nethercoal works in the steam engine? and if so Im giving up on hunting for oil...

[Brethern]

-shivers-

Now that is a scary thought... steel pipes? nethercoal powered quarries? or even mech powered quarries....

Edit: Does anyone know if nethercoal works in the steam engine? and if so Im giving up on hunting for oil...

If the steam engine recognizes it as burnable then yes.