Are we all idiots?

HaloGamefreek · Post by **HaloGamefreek** » Fri Nov 16, 2012 2:15 pm

As a kid I came to believe that people in general are stupid. Myself included. But is this just a statistical thing? I grew up in a highly populated area in southern California. So was it just that there were a lot of people who are only acting dumb some of the time? Or was I just smarter as a kid?

Edit: I test quite well but I've made some stupid decisions in my life. Yeah... I'm an idiot.

kaos78414 · Post by **kaos78414** » Fri Nov 16, 2012 2:21 pm

You probably are. But I don't consider myself an idiot, thank you very much. :P

EDIT: Only joking, in case that wasn't clear.

Stormweaver · Post by **Stormweaver** » Fri Nov 16, 2012 3:35 pm

If you define 'idiot' as someone as below average intelligence, then yes, people are idiots. That's the problem when failure is so much more noticeable than success.

Just do what I do. Accept it, move on, and secretly plot to shower the world with fire and brimstone once you have a chance to usurp whatever deity you believe in.

Ozziie · Post by **Ozziie** » Fri Nov 16, 2012 3:48 pm

HaloGamefreek wrote: I've made some stupid decisions in my life. Yeah... I'm an idiot.

You're only an idiot if you don't learn from them...

Pucc · Post by **Pucc** » Fri Nov 16, 2012 4:10 pm

“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”

― Albert Einstein

The Phoenixian · Post by **The Phoenixian** » Fri Nov 16, 2012 4:38 pm

I think this is a matter of definitions, (Read: I can't tell what you mean when you say "idiot".)

If you judge idiocy by the saying that someone who performs stupid actions is an idiot then I might contend that that kind of idiocy is not something you are but something you do.

In this case, no one inherently an idiot but everyone is capable of being an idiot.

If Idiocy is judged by saying that someone who consistently performs stupid actions is an idiot, then that's a different matter and a can of linguistic worms I won't open just yet.

On another note: "HaloGamefreek"? that's a name/description reminiscent of someone else I know. You wouldn't happen to know a "The Phoenixian" from somewhere else would you?

abzu93 · Post by **abzu93** » Fri Nov 16, 2012 6:49 pm

I've come to define idiotic behavior as those behaviors or speech in an individual or group that are inconsistent with what they experience as reality. Especially if it results from consciously choosing to overlook reality because it disagrees with one's beliefs or feelings.

From my experience, most people are brought up to embrace beliefs over reality, and from what I understand, our brains seem to function this way as a matter of course. Critical thinking is a learned skill and requires training and practice.

So yeah, I guess it makes sense that most people will come across as dumb as posts; but none of us are really wholly exempt.

Utterbob · Post by **Utterbob** » Fri Nov 16, 2012 7:02 pm

Well I have been tested several times, using a number of methods and all of them show my IQ to be well and truly into the genius level range, yet I have a lot (and I mean A LOT) of trouble with spelling. Spelling is the most noticeable but also not the only area I have that is below normal ranges. It's all a matter of perception, my IQ tests and academic record show me to well over the average, any non-heavily-edited written work would (and has) make me look like a complete idiot.

With that said it's much easier to see stupidity than intelligence (as Stormweaver mentioned). Imagine walking down the street looking for intelligence... how would you tell a brilliant scientist from someone who was right around average? They are both just people walking down the street not being idiots. On the other had the one walking across the street, without looking and nearly getting getting run down, then stopping to turn around when their friend calls out to them and therefore staying in front of the car, is clearly an idiot!

IQ testing is based on averages so you have to assume that, given the population is normally distributed (and IQ is), that there are just as many people above average as there are below average, we can just see the dumb ones more easily.

Pucc · Post by **Pucc** » Fri Nov 16, 2012 8:43 pm

In my opinion IQ tests are a bit inadequate in what they aim to measure. What I mean is they test a very specific set of skills rather than the full range of possible intelligences. Intelligence comes in many shapes and forms although society tends to view the academic variety with more significance. Take for instance a footballer, now I'm sure the majority of the population will hold the opinion that footballers have a low intelligence compared to say a doctor. However, the footballer possesses a sort of physical intelligence that the doctor does not, and which of course the standard IQ test does not examine for. It then maybe suggested that intelligence is perhaps a construct of our society and thus kicks off the endless debate through which no-one can prove who is of greater intelligence than who. So lets just say we're all geniuses at something and that to begin to compare and argue which intelligence is superior would be stupid, :).

Utterbob · Post by **Utterbob** » Fri Nov 16, 2012 9:41 pm

Pucc wrote: Post subject: Re: Are we all idiots? Reply with quote
In my opinion IQ tests are a bit inadequate in what they aim to measure. What I mean is they test a very specific set of skills rather than the full range of possible intelligences. Intelligence comes in many shapes and forms although society tends to view the academic variety with more significance. Take for instance a footballer, now I'm sure the majority of the population will hold the opinion that footballers have a low intelligence compared to say a doctor. However, the footballer possesses a sort of physical intelligence that the doctor does not, and which of course the standard IQ test does not examine for. It then maybe suggested that intelligence is perhaps a construct of our society and thus kicks off the endless debate through which no-one can prove who is of greater intelligence than who. So lets just say we're all geniuses at something and that to begin to compare and argue which intelligence is superior would be stupid, :)

Actually I was going to mention something along these lines too but my post was long enough as it was... I agree completely, I certainly do not consider myself smarter than someone who scores lower in an IQ test, only smarter in the area tested at most. Creativity is one that immediately jumps to mind, I have very little of that and it is something not captured at all by IQ testing.

MoRmEnGiL · Post by **MoRmEnGiL** » Fri Nov 16, 2012 11:14 pm

Stormweaver wrote:If you define 'idiot' as someone as below average intelligence, then yes, people are idiots.

But if people are on average below average intelligence.. you divide by zero man :P

People are by definition of average intelligence, they cannot be anything else, or the average intelligence wouldn't be the average intelligence :P

(Sorry, couldn't resist)

Stormweaver · Post by **Stormweaver** » Sat Nov 17, 2012 1:56 am

MoRmEnGiL wrote:
Stormweaver wrote:If you define 'idiot' as someone as below average intelligence, then yes, people are idiots.
But if people are on average below average intelligence.. you divide by zero man :P

People are by definition of average intelligence, they cannot be anything else, or the average intelligence wouldn't be the average intelligence :P

(Sorry, couldn't resist)

+1 idiot point for not reading second sentence :p

LupusExMachina · Post by **LupusExMachina** » Sat Nov 17, 2012 5:10 am

With the definition of Idiots being anyone below average intelligence, it cut's the whole thing down to half the population.
If you count in people who make stupid mistakes, you pretty much covered the whole population. We do that. Everyone does.
Luckily the stupid mistakes get less the older you get and the more experience you accumulate.

They won't catch me twice.

MoRmEnGiL · Post by **MoRmEnGiL** » Sun Nov 18, 2012 9:57 pm

Stormweaver wrote: +1 idiot point for not reading second sentence :p

Lol :P

The second sentence has nothing to do with the logical fallacy (even if hypothetical) of the first sentence :P

Btw, if you ask me, idiocy has nothing to do with the amount of intelligence or IQ, and everything to do with how you use it (or choose not to as is the case).

Sometimes smart people act the dumbest.

Post by **FlowerChild** » Sun Nov 18, 2012 10:26 pm

Just as a general comment on this thread: intelligence is relative, thus we are all idiots to someone. In that sense, I'll say "yes" to the question in the thread title (and I include myself in that as well).

Also, the smarter you are, the greater number of people will appear to be stupid. This may sound like it's a good thing, but it also means that you're more and more isolated and find it more and more difficult to find people to relate to (I also suspect this must be true of people on the opposite end of the spectrum). A very intelligent friend of mine used to consider it a curse as a result, and to act in direct opposition to your ability to be happy. It's not an opinion I fully share, but I do see some truth to "ignorance is bliss" and all that.

Azdoine · Post by **Azdoine** » Sun Nov 18, 2012 10:41 pm

In my opinion, in most cases, people aren't genetically predisposed to stupidity. Either they're lacking in knowledge (which is ok), or never learned how to think critically/effectively (which is much worse).

Of course, there are also the people who just don't care enough to learn, and these are the real idiots, who I despise.

Wafflewaffle · Post by **Wafflewaffle** » Mon Nov 19, 2012 12:10 pm

People are pretty smart individually and especifically (as in trained to do few extraordinarily things), but in a crowd or as a population we are as smart and efficient as a pack of pigs.

Think about it, relatively few people can create a massive magnet accelerated particle collider to find out how the universe formed, but in a pack we can barely leave a soccer stadium fast without trampling a couple hundred people.

Our species are smart, our popular communities are really dumb

Thalarctia · Post by **Thalarctia** » Sat Nov 24, 2012 7:37 am

A Danish comedian made this joke at a performance at my university a few years ago, I found it quite accurate:

"Think about the average Dane - He's pretty dumb right? HALF the people in the country are dumber than him! Do you really want these people to rule over you? No, I thought not, that is why I'm against democracy."

It's a very subjective topic, in that each person might put the average a different place, and most people (In accordance with the Donning-Krüger effect) will put the average below their own level of intelligence, thus making the above a point anyone would agree with.

Graphite · Post by **Graphite** » Sat Nov 24, 2012 10:25 am

Good thing he was a comedian and not a mathimatician, then, as it only takes one person twice as smart as you to compensate for two people half as smart ;)

Thalarctia · Post by **Thalarctia** » Sun Nov 25, 2012 7:18 pm

Graphite wrote:Good thing he was a comedian and not a mathimatician, then, as it only takes one person twice as smart as you to compensate for two people half as smart ;)

Not in a real democracy where every person has one vote - That was the whole point of it, even though the few smart know what is right, they can still be overruled by the majority at any time.

Kazuya Mishima · Post by **Kazuya Mishima** » Sun Nov 25, 2012 10:54 pm

Thalarctia wrote: Not in a real democracy where every person has one vote - That was the whole point of it, even though the few smart know what is right, they can still be overruled by the majority at any time.

And wait till you find out about the rational ignorance effect of democratic decision making.

BinoAl · Post by **BinoAl** » Sun Nov 25, 2012 11:06 pm

Politics? *tsk* ;)

Everyone (at least, in the US public school systems) is told they are a smart, special little snowflake. Most people justify this as they get older because they are better than average at something. My stepfather thinks he is above average intelligence, because he is decent at carpentry, some of my classmates were good at sports, etc etc. It does result in a lot of self entitlement, but it also results in people (usually) finding something to really *try* at. I think if everyone had a realistic view of their own intelligence, the less intelligent would simply not try anything that requires thought

SleskePede · Post by **SleskePede** » Mon Nov 26, 2012 1:05 am

BinoAl wrote:Politics? *tsk* ;)

Everyone (at least, in the US public school systems) is told they are a smart, special little snowflake.

Im going to puke from laughter the next time I hear that "everyone is special" line. Its a perfect oxymoron and people still seem to use it with a straight face.

People eat this up because stupid people are too stupid to know that they are stupid, according to some research I read a while ago.
It was kinda spooky to read, because I all of a sudden questioned everything, that I thought was smart, as stupid. I have honestly thought to myself - "hmm, maybe lmfao is better than Black Sabbath, maybe its me thats wrong, not the people who listen to lmfao." (Dont worry I came to my senses)

Azdoine · Post by **Azdoine** » Mon Nov 26, 2012 4:21 am

Yeah, I've had the same thoughts before. It's really quite eerie... the idea of being trapped by your own mind, but unable to see the cage.

Never making fun of the less mentally capable again.

Rianaru · Post by **Rianaru** » Tue Nov 27, 2012 6:07 pm

BinoAl wrote:Politics? *tsk* ;)

Everyone (at least, in the US public school systems) is told they are a smart, special little snowflake. Most people justify this as they get older because they are better than average at something. My stepfather thinks he is above average intelligence, because he is decent at carpentry, some of my classmates were good at sports, etc etc. It does result in a lot of self entitlement, but it also results in people (usually) finding something to really *try* at. I think if everyone had a realistic view of their own intelligence, the less intelligent would simply not try anything that requires thought

This is the thing I hate most about US schooling and US culture. This and maybe one or two other things(mostly related to the less intelligent and their lack of knowledge about their own stupidity) are the only things that make me legitimately pissed off.