WH40K and Flower's other mod...now with added Fight Club

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FlowerChild
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WH40K and Flower's other mod...now with added Fight Club

Post by FlowerChild »

Nexus Trimean wrote: (Also, Flower Plays 40k! Zomg. IG forever.)
Yeah, I've been playing since 1st ED, shortly after it first came out. Haven't played in a few years though, but over the years I've fielded Ork, World Eater, and Marine armies.

I'm still a huge fan of the universe, but personally feel that 2nd ED was the height of 40K as a game. Ever since each edition seems to just dumb it down further in favor of mass appeal and "fast games" ("fast games" = larger armies = more miniatures), and as I mentioned above the newer armies just don't fit the feel of universe. Games Workshop has been slowly selling out to favor miniature sales over gameplay for about 25 years now (did you know that White Dwarf started as a general RPG mag that covered everything from D&D to Warhammer?), but it's gotten to the point where I really can't play their stuff with a straight face anymore.

It started off as a very cool little sci-fi tactical game that focused on small unit actions, and has slowly devolved into a miniature marketing machine. Heck, the 1st ED even had carboard-cutouts to substitute for miniatures in the back of the book, and you'd *never* see them do something like that today.

Now, I mainly just stick to the computer games based on the fiction, although now Relic seems to be going into a downhill slide as well. Space Marine was probably the first 40K title ever released that I didn't buy, and Dawn Of War II was a big disappointment to me even though I played it through. Heck, I even bought that crappy Tau-based FPS that came out several years ago (Fire Warrior I think?), and the SSI 40K Panzer General variant back in the day.
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Sarudak
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Re: Halloween!!

Post by Sarudak »

Warhammer 40k has such a dark engaging backstory...
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FlowerChild
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Re: Halloween!!

Post by FlowerChild »

Sarudak wrote:Warhammer 40k has such a dark engaging backstory...
Yup, it's one of the few games where I wound up reading a shit-ton of novels based on the universe just because I liked it so much.

I really love the extremely dark mix of culty religion and barely understood high-technology. It's rather similar to the Dune series in that regard. They kinda started off just ripping off material from absolutely everywhere in both sci-fi and fantasy to make this kinda whacky sci-fi game, but somehow it all worked together.

I guess that's the reason why the only other mod I've ever worked on was 40K based :)
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Sarudak
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Re: Halloween!!

Post by Sarudak »

I don't suppose you're gonna tell me what that was? Lol
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FlowerChild
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Re: Halloween!!

Post by FlowerChild »

Sarudak wrote:I don't suppose you're gonna tell me what that was? Lol
Yeah, I've already mentioned it on these forums, and it was under the same pseudonym, so there's no secret there.

It was called Half-Life: Inferno. I was working on it in my spare time because I was involved in a soul-crushing professional game-dev project and needed a creative outlet in my off hours.

Unfortunately, I moved while working on it, wound up in a nasty personal situation that had all my possessions locked in storage for about a year, and unfortunately that also included the only copy of the source code on my computer, so the mod died during that time.

It was building up an extremely loyal fan-base though, and was definitely on its way to becoming a big deal, but died a premature death due to the above. It took me about a decade to remember how much joy I got out of modding to begin with in the process.

You might still be able to find a few references to it online, but there wasn't much left other than a Half-Life modding tutorial I wrote the last time I checked.

EDIT: Yeah, here's the tutorial I mentioned: http://hlpp.thewavelength.net/tuts/namingweap.htm

EDIT 2: Oh, and found an old download page here: http://www.gamefront.com/files/listing/ ... s/inferno/

It's giving me a trip in the way-back machine to read through the change-log (I think I wrote it myself), which I'll post here in spoilers:
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Version 0.07
-Implemented "drift" on bolter. This is how it works: The more shots you fire (regardless of the fire mode) in rapid succession the more inaccurate your weapon gets (just like in RL). Waiting in between shots, makes your weapon more accurate again as time goes by. In single shot mode, you automatically wait long enough between shots for each one to be as accurate as possible. In three-round burst, the time between bursts also returns the first shot of each burst to maximum accuracy. On full auto, the ammount of time you wait is entirely up to you, so the more you fire, the less accurate your weapon becomes, and the longer you wait, the more accurate it becomes (up to the maximum accuracy which is the same as the first shot). This was done to match my own experience with automatic weapons in real-life as closely as possible, and I think it gives the bolter a much better "feel".
-Implemented modifier to firing accuracy based on stance and movement. Crouching while not moving gives the best possible accuracy. Standing, while not moving is next best. Walking decreases accuracy, and running does so even more. If you really want to "snipe", crouching, and staying perfectly still is the best bet.
-Fixed problem that would cause "failed to precache '9mmclip1.wav'" error to appear on the console.

Version 0.06
-Found problem with marines not being able to breath underwater. It works properly now.
-Added in pain sounds. Note: Pain sounds are NOT triggered by weapon fire in the Half-Life code. I could have them triggered when someone gets hit, but it is not already in there. I think the pain sounds were meant for stuff like electrity and steam damage.
-Toned down the distance at which the bolter explosions were audible, as you could hear them clear accross the level before, and they never seemed to decrease in volume no matter how far away you were.
-Put in a one in ten chance that any bolter kill results in gibbage.
-We have Blood! After spending hours of digging around in the code, I finally posted a request for help on a Half-Life programming forum, and received a response that indicated only 1 lines of frigging code was required to re-enable the blood whch Valve had disabled in the SDK (don't ask me why they did this, I still wan't to bitch-slap someone for it). Special thanks to Botman for helping me out with this one.
-Added in the Inferno website to liblist.gam. This will allow people to go straight to our site from within half-life (In the custom-game menu).
-Added in the new Space Wolf skin. It can be accessed from the console with "model mrnwolf". I will be adding in a menu to select the skin you wish to use later. Note that once you specify a model in the fashion it will become the default model that will be loaded when you enter the game.
-Restricted the range of the bolter to 2048 HL units. This is based on a suggestion by Cold Fusion that 1.5 inches in Warhammer should equal about 128 HL units. Since this sytem seems to work well, I will probably use it to convert other weapon ranges from the table-top also.
-Implemented armor saves, along with marine pain sounds whenever an armor save is made (sounds like a crunch followed by a grunt). Bolts also streak off from the target when an armor save is made (tracers). Currently, these ricochets do no damage, but it would be easy enough to make them do so if it is desirable.

Version 0.05
-Finally figured out the problem with the weapons displaying the wrong names when you killed someone with them, and also discovered some oddities in relation to the new weapons and the HUD. Both of these have been fixed. If anyone is interested in doing new sprites for the bolter on the hud consult "weapon_bolter.txt".
-Isolated bolter explosion sound from the rest of the explosion sounds as I doubt we will want them all explosions to sound like the bolter.
-Finalized integration of new sounds and graphics from Version 0.04 into the code. You will notice that most sound and graphic file names have been changed so that the base Half-Life sounds and graphics will still be available if we want to make use of them. In the cases where the names have remained the same it is generally due to the file-names being hard-coded into the game engine, and therefore inaccessible to us.

Version 0.04
-Added in a close combat weapon using a temporary axe model.
-Marines can now breathe underwater.
-Re-enabled health-kits.
-Forced model to "marine" and wrote code to validate any player model changes.
-Integrated new Marine, and bolter models and sounds. BTW: They kick ass! :)

Version 0.03
-Added 3 fire modes to bolter: Single Shot, 3 Round Burst, and Full Auto. You can cycle between these with secondary fire.

Upcoming changes:
-Get marines to walk on the bottom of water-filled areas instead of swimming.
-Fix weird thing that is happening with new menu graphics (Half-Life title overlapping our background). This may involve altering the client.dll file, so it may take awhile. Note: It looks like the image is stored in logo.avi. Is anyone able to make a replacement for us?
-Take care of w_weaponbox.mdl.
-Figure out where clipinsert1.wav and cliprelease1.wav are getting called within the code.
-Fix position at which shells are ejected from the bolter.
It gives me a chuckle to read my explanation about weapon drift, as at the time, that wasn't at all a standard feature in FPS games, like it is now :)

EDIT 3: Oh, and it looks like I was always obsessed with heavy armor causing people to walk in water instead of swim. Go figure :)
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Re: Halloween!!

Post by Nexus Trimean »

Actually, 6th Edition is a lot closer to second edition than any of the past Revisions, I haven't Picked it up yet but i have heard good things. Id imagine its still encouraging Larger armies as GW's Main income will always be from models. Though, I spend a lot more time Reading about 40k rather than playing the game.
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Re: Halloween!!

Post by FlowerChild »

Nexus Trimean wrote:Actually, 6th Edition is a lot closer to second edition than any of the past Revisions, I haven't Picked it up yet but i have heard good things. Id imagine its still encouraging Larger armies as GW's Main income will always be from models. Though, I spend a lot more time Reading about 40k rather than playing the game.
I wasn't even aware there was a 6th ed. I picked up the 5th (I think it was the 5th anyways) a few years back and gave it a read-through, but I think that was pretty much the end of me and 40K as an actual game rather than as a universe.

And yeah, I'm much the same. Eventually my interest became almost entirely about reading 40K rather than actually playing it.

I'd be extremely surprised if they returned to anything like 2nd ed rules though man. Defense was actually an important consideration back then, which ultimately lead to smaller and more methodical games. They even made overwatch rules official in 2nd ed (in 1st ed they were an optional rule based on an article in White Dwarf), which placed waaaay more emphasis on defense.

Heck, the last edition I read, they had even effectively gotten rid of cover as a consideration, due to them changing things so that you'd get *either* an armor save, or a cover save, but never both. It really seemed to have devolved into "here's my models...here's your models...CHARGE!!!!", and let the die rolls sort it out.

EDIT: Nope, the last edition I purchased and read was 4th. Just looked them up online.
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Re: Halloween!!

Post by Ferrus.Manus »

FlowerChild wrote:Heck, the last edition I read, they had even effectively gotten rid of cover as a consideration, due to them changing things so that you'd get *either* an armor save, or a cover save, but never both. It really seemed to have devolved into "here's my models...here's your models...CHARGE!!!!", and let the die rolls sort it out.
It worked like this since 3rd edition and actually due to how armor save/armor penetration works cover is still very much relevant, probably even more than before (can't say for sure, never played 2nd edition).

But I'm the same as you - don't play (and never played actually. Had a WHFB army though) WH40K but love the backstory. I played some WH40K GURPS and Dark Heresy campaigns though and had tons of fun.
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Re: WH40K and Flower's only other modding project

Post by TheAnarchitect »

Cover save is actually WAY more important these days, as the typical unit carries a weapon with an AP value high enough to ignore their own armor. Those cover saves are usually the only defense you get.

5th edition did heavily favor the *CHARGE* approach, as melee was much deadlier than shooting and most units were mobile enough to get to melee without having to endure more than a turn of shooting. 6th edition went a long way to correcting this issue, by limiting when you can charge and also giving those receiving a charge basically a free shooting phase. You *might* like the current edition's rules in that regard.

I play Tau and orks, but my 40k minis pull double-duty as my shadowrun minis. Tau for corp security guards, orks for, well, orks. Works well for those runs where the players use a riot as cover. I've also been modelling the Jaegermonstern from girl genius as an ork army, but progress on that front is slow as I rarely get the urge to sculpt these days.
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Re: WH40K and Flower's only other modding project

Post by Dreambolt »

TheAnarchitect wrote:I've also been modelling the Jaegermonstern from girl genius
To you I say awesome, simply awesome.

6th edition I think took some intelligent steps forward(or backward as the case may be), but my gaming days are over (Finecost was over the line for stupid moves to piss off your fan base), and I too am mostly interested is the Chaos story line, and the slow degradation of the Imperium's technology. Though Tyranids will always hold a special place in my heart.
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Re: WH40K and Flower's only other modding project

Post by Ferrus.Manus »

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Ultionis
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Re: Halloween!!

Post by Ultionis »

FlowerChild wrote:
Sarudak wrote:Warhammer 40k has such a dark engaging backstory...
Yup, it's one of the few games where I wound up reading a shit-ton of novels based on the universe just because I liked it so much.
Same here. The recent Horus Heresy series has me pinned down everytime I open a book. The grimness and sheer magnitude of *everything* makes for a compelling read, and just about every book touches on the subjects of human nature and the frailty thereof.

Currently I'm actually reading Daemon World by Ben Counter, telling the tale of a planet shrouded in Chaos and how it takes it's toll on the human (or semi-human) population. I can hardly put it down.
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Re: WH40K and Flower's only other modding project

Post by TheYaMeZ »

FlowerChild wrote:Relic seems to be going into a downhill slide as well. Space Marine was probably the first 40K title ever released that I didn't buy, and Dawn Of War II was a big disappointment to me even though I played it through.
It does seem that way doesnt it, I have my fingers crossed that Company of heroes 2 is anywhere near as enjoyable as the first one.
I really didn't like DoW2 either, I don't think I even played it through. I personally thought Space Marine was amazing though, just because I read so many novels and such that experiencing it in FPS form was much more enjoyable. It delivered exactly what it promised, A simple kill-em-up with a distinctly 40k flavour. Exterminatus mode with 3 of my friends was so much fun because it really made you feel as powerful as space marines were in the lore... and there were four of you.
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Re: WH40K and Flower's only other modding project

Post by DaveYanakov »

My interest was mainly in the kit-bashing aspect. Since the guard hail from a million different worlds, you could justify any piece of equipment you could build. My personal favorites were the platoon of Catachan rough riders mounted on cut-down ork warbikes and the APU squad I built because there was a GW store 200 feet away from the theater where I watched the Matrix 3. I haven't actually played a game in 7 years or so but I still look back on it fondly.

Although the reason I loved the kit-bashing was because I could build cheaper models out of my bits bin. I also started out very heavy on the tanks and stayed that way since you used to be able to buy a Leman Russ for half the price of a single infantry squad.

Found the old picture I put up
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Also the vehicle I slapped together for the 40k street racing event we came up with once while most of us were drunk...
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FlowerChild wrote: Heck, the last edition I read, they had even effectively gotten rid of cover as a consideration, due to them changing things so that you'd get *either* an armor save, or a cover save, but never both. It really seemed to have devolved into "here's my models...here's your models...CHARGE!!!!", and let the die rolls sort it out.
Maybe it's because I play the Guard almost exclusively but I never noticed that. When your guys wear armor that even a moderately beefy round can punch through like it doesn't exist, keeping your people in cover makes them two to three times more durable. Defense was always the most vital part of the game I played. Unless you were that one space marine player who bunched all his infantry behind one tiny building when I had three battle cannons with good angles of fire. That was one seriously pissed off store owner...
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Re: WH40K and Flower's only other modding project

Post by Nexus Trimean »

One of the Common problems with 40k is that the tactics take a back seat for a lot of people. Admittedly they did for me for quite a while too, the sad part is there can be a lot of tactical depth with positioning, rather than just Running straight at your enemy, Using cover effectively, and managing line of sight. I actually Read an IG blog that a guy had written training for one of the Big Games Days, about developing his list and tactics that helped a lot. Unfortunately it seems most the time the Atmosphere of the game isn't Really conducive to Learning and Teaching, at least where i play, very few people will sit down after the game and analyze their play, or there list. Best way to encourage tactical play, is make sure that 1/4th of your table space is terrain, a lot of the tactical sense and play is lost when you are sitting on a giant flat grassy plain.

A lot of Your tactical Possibilities are Limited at the List building phase, making it one of the most important aspects of the Miniatures game. Making sure that you have all the tools in your tool bag to deal with whatever comes up. I often find myself just making army lists to see what would be fun. Even for Armies that i don't own.

I still havent played a game sine about 1/2 way through fifth, Though i do prefer larger apocolypse style games, get 10 players with 1500 points each, on a 16x4 playing field, the chaos of it can be quite enjoyable, and being a huge tank fan i get to have lots and lots of my basilisks, and if im very lucky i can bring out my Titan.

Our Game store does Skimmer Races, and Dreadnaught Arena's every few months that are a lot of fun, (150 points to kit out a skimmer, and the first one to 4 laps wins, One of the few times you want to go last, to keep your guns trained on everyone else.)

Edit: Can't find the original tactics blog, it appears to have been lost in a server wipe at some point, But the guy who wrote it Malchek, on Warseer, Now Runs Tactics tournaments for his area.
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Re: WH40K and Flower's only other modding project

Post by SufficientAnonymity »

FlowerChild wrote:I've been playing since 1st ED
You play 40k :D You just get better and better. I haven't been playing anywhere near that long (I'm not old enough to have been for starters) but love the hobby and the lore behind it. I'm a Dark Angels successor chapter player myself, and am thus driving myself insane with anticipation for a new codex, and more importantly a few new models. If they don't drop one on us after Dark Vengeance that'd be cruel. Over the years I've built up the full 3rd company, plus a two little detachments of the 1st and 2nd companies. My current plan is to replace my detachment of the 1st company as they were some of the first models I got, and so there's some sentimental value there, but the painting and the modeling grates on me a bit every time I play a game with them.
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Re: Halloween!!

Post by DaWhiskers »

FlowerChild wrote:
Nexus Trimean wrote:Actually, 6th Edition is a lot closer to second edition than any of the past Revisions, I haven't Picked it up yet but i have heard good things. Id imagine its still encouraging Larger armies as GW's Main income will always be from models. Though, I spend a lot more time Reading about 40k rather than playing the game.
I wasn't even aware there was a 6th ed. I picked up the 5th (I think it was the 5th anyways) a few years back and gave it a read-through, but I think that was pretty much the end of me and 40K as an actual game rather than as a universe.

And yeah, I'm much the same. Eventually my interest became almost entirely about reading 40K rather than actually playing it.

I'd be extremely surprised if they returned to anything like 2nd ed rules though man. Defense was actually an important consideration back then, which ultimately lead to smaller and more methodical games. They even made overwatch rules official in 2nd ed (in 1st ed they were an optional rule based on an article in White Dwarf), which placed waaaay more emphasis on defense.

Heck, the last edition I read, they had even effectively gotten rid of cover as a consideration, due to them changing things so that you'd get *either* an armor save, or a cover save, but never both. It really seemed to have devolved into "here's my models...here's your models...CHARGE!!!!", and let the die rolls sort it out.

EDIT: Nope, the last edition I purchased and read was 4th. Just looked them up online.
As the owner of 6th (5th, 4th, 3rd and 1st) editions, and a player of all (yes I have been playing for 25 years), I can also confirm that the current (6th) edition is most similar to 2nd. Over-watch is indeed back, as well as proper throw-able grenades.

As for defense, its back having more of a heyday, especially with the rules for going to ground, and the possibility of adding a defensive structure to your actual army list (referred to as fortifications in the rule book) meaning its possible to guarantee some cover for units. Other rules its nice to see in the new edition are the 'snap shots', especially for heavy weapons, meaning they can move and fire in the same turn (with the exception of blast marker weapons) but require a 6 to hit. Add to that, that heavy weapons only count as moving if the model itself moves not just a member of the squad!!!

Rules for special skills for the warlord (the commander of your army) as well as environmental situations that can add special rules to the battle are slowly beginning to turn a game I've watched them rip apart over the years back towards a tactical game that rewards the tactical player.

The novels/novella that are currently available are becoming more and more phenomenal as they keep coming, from Gaunts Ghosts to the Space Marine Battles novels, and the likes of Eisenhorn and Ravenor all adding to the detail of the background of the universe, almost creating familiarity with the entire Imperium, its a hobby that has kept me interested since my first battle. If you haven't read them, the Eisenhorn and Ravenor Trillogies are a fantastic read, with some brilliant storylines, but then again, with origins writing for 2000AD and also responsible for a few episodes of Dr Who, most of his writings tend to be fantastic.
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Re: Halloween!!

Post by FlowerChild »

DaWhiskers wrote:Rules for special skills for the warlord (the commander of your army) as well as environmental situations that can add special rules to the battle are slowly beginning to turn a game I've watched them rip apart over the years back towards a tactical game that rewards the tactical player.
That's very good news man. Like I said, I basically gave up after reading through the 4th ed rules and decided that they had gone full out money-whore on the rules and were only concerned about speeding up the game to encourage mass battles and sell figs. I'm glad to hear that they turned that around at some point, and if they brought overwatch back, then I am fairly convinced that they did so.

It sounds like we started playing around the same time. Old school ftw. Up until a few years ago I was very proud that my Space Marine army still consisted entirely of the old pointy-faced models, and I made sure to field them as Crimson Fists in honor of 1st Ed ;)
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Re: Halloween!!

Post by DaWhiskers »

FlowerChild wrote: It sounds like we started playing around the same time. Old school ftw. Up until a few years ago I was very proud that my Space Marine army still consisted entirely of the old pointy-faced models, and I made sure to field them as Crimson Fists in honor of 1st Ed ;)
Indeed... good times back then when a 2000 pts army had maybe 15 men...

Also, they released a commemorative 25years Miniature of the Crimson Fist marine from the cover of the Rogue Trader rulebook!!

http://www.beastsofwar.com/warhammer-40 ... nce-order/
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Re: Halloween!!

Post by FlowerChild »

DaWhiskers wrote: Also, they released a commemorative 25years Miniature of the Crimson Fist marine from the cover of the Rogue Trader rulebook!!

http://www.beastsofwar.com/warhammer-40 ... nce-order/
Wo ho! Very nice man! If I was still into collecting and painting, that would be a rather tempting purchase :)
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Re: Halloween!!

Post by Poppycocks »

FlowerChild wrote:
DaWhiskers wrote: Also, they released a commemorative 25years Miniature of the Crimson Fist marine from the cover of the Rogue Trader rulebook!!

http://www.beastsofwar.com/warhammer-40 ... nce-order/
Wo ho! Very nice man! If I was still into collecting and painting, that would be a rather tempting purchase :)
Lmao, this reminds me of a few situation where you mentioned you would possibly maybe like a certain game and it appeared on your doorstep :D. If someone pulled that stunt on this one, then that'd make my day :D.
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Re: Halloween!!

Post by FlowerChild »

Poppycocks wrote:Lmao, this reminds me of a few situation where you mentioned you would possibly maybe like a certain game and it appeared on your doorstep :D. If someone pulled that stunt on this one, then that'd make my day :D.
No no no. Please no :)

I went through a period where I cut down my physical possessions to the absolute bare minimum a few years ago. I am absolutely determined to live a minimalist lifestyle from this point forward, and never have to go through that again.

This is why you often hear me say things like "used to own" when talking about table-top RPGs, miniatures, or pretty much anything else. It's all long gone.

Computer games are much appreciated as they occupy no physical space, but I'm actually philosophically opposed to owning decorative items of any kind, or anything that causes the total bulk of my possessions to no longer fit in the trunk of a car.

So yeah, please don't buy me anything with mass and volume. I can still appreciate cool stuff like this, but I in no way want to own it :)
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Re: Halloween!!

Post by Last_Jedi_Standing »

FlowerChild wrote:Computer games are much appreciated as they occupy no physical space, but I'm actually philosophically opposed to owning decorative items of any kind, or anything that causes the total bulk of my possessions to no longer fit in the trunk of a car.
Do you own furniture?
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FlowerChild
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Re: Halloween!!

Post by FlowerChild »

Last_Jedi_Standing wrote:Do you own furniture?
Nope. Not anything I wouldn't be willing to throw out or give away on a moment's notice anyways. Basically, my rule is "only what fits in the trunk of a car or that you'd have no issue leaving behind".

It's basically a Fight Club style mentality. I've moved around so much in my life that I came to realize my possessions were ultimately weighing me down and even affecting my decision making process in holding me back from doing the things I really wanted to do (e.g. "oh...but then I'd have to take care of all this stuff...too much trouble").

The way I live now, I could seriously move to the other side of the planet with no more than a couple of days notice, consideration, or undue effort.
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Re: Halloween!!

Post by Last_Jedi_Standing »

FlowerChild wrote:
Last_Jedi_Standing wrote:Do you own furniture?
Nope. Not anything I wouldn't be willing to throw out or give away on a moment's notice anyways. Basically, my rule is "only what fits in the trunk of a car or that you'd have no issue leaving behind".

It's basically a Fight Club style mentality. I've moved around so much in my life that I came to realize my possessions were ultimately weighing me down and even affecting my decision making process in holding me back from doing the things I really wanted to do (e.g. "oh...but then I'd have to take care of all this stuff...too much trouble").

The way I live now, I could seriously move to the other side of the planet with no more than a couple of days notice, consideration, or undue effort.
As someone who owns multiple rooms full of LEGOs, I am glad I don't have to do that.
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