SMP/Singleplayer Merger - No Longer A Concern.

[Eriottosan]

First of all, forgive me. I've had this query for a while now, and nearly posted it in a few other threads before deciding not to, but I now really want to know what people think.

Ok, ever since I first heard about the Singleplayer and SMP being merged and singleplayer being played on a "local server", I've been a bit worried.

You see, I live in a house with 2 other teenage boys, and we have a bandwidth cap, which we regularly get right up to the limit.
We can't afford to go over as we have very little money as is atm, and we can't afford to upgrade either.

My worry is this: if singleplayer is on a local server, does this mean that I will be unable to play singleplayer MC as much as I currently do? In other words, will this be a pull on my bandwidth usage?

I've searched and searched to find an answer, and I just can't find one. I may post over at MCF, but I thought I'd ask here first, as this community is rather more helpful!

Thoughts?

Eriottosan
x

[M!C]

In other words, will this be a pull on my bandwidth usage?

No, it won't. So long as the client runs on the same machine as the server there's no bandwidth used whatsoever. You can still play without any internet connection at all.

[Eriottosan]

In other words, will this be a pull on my bandwidth usage?

No, it won't. So long as the client runs on the same machine as the server there's no bandwidth used whatsoever. You can still play without any internet connection at all.

Ah, thanks for the quick response, M!C :). I've been getting more and more worried about this possibility, and was worried that by asking it would confirm my worst fears. I'm glad that I was mistaken :).

[MoRmEnGiL]

What it also means, is that you should be able to play together with your brothers via lan, still not using up your internet bandwidth.

[Poppycocks]

Hm, I guess this is probably a concern for a other non-techy people as well. Perhaps you could let mojang know and ask them to put up a FAQ concerning these new updates?

The update seems to be getting a lot of borderline hateful fear-of-the-unknown induced reactions. I wish Mojang did something to dispel those, as the update is actually (imo) the best thing that could happen to it.

[Eriottosan]

What it also means, is that you should be able to play together with your brothers via lan, still not using up your internet bandwidth.

That was the thing that confused me initially - I was happy that it was going to be on a remote server etc, and then I read that it was possible to invite friends to join you and I went "oh ... hm ... I wonder ..."

Hm, I guess this is probably a concern for a other non-techy people as well. Perhaps you could let mojang know and ask them to put up a FAQ concerning these new updates?

The update seems to be getting a lot of borderline hateful fear-of-the-unknown induced reactions. I wish Mojang did something to dispel those, as the update is actually (imo) the best thing that could happen to it.

I take offense at being called "non-techy" ;). I'm pretty damn savvy with a computer, and have even built a few (though never for me, alas). It's just when it comes to bandwidth usages I get confused. Pretty much any other techy side of things I'll be able to understand what's going on :P. But yes, perhaps it would be good to draw Mojang's attention to the fact that it is borderline confusing.

Don't get me wrong - that was the only issue I had with this upcoming version. The implications of the merger are fantastic for the future of MC, and as you say, the merge is probably "the best thing that could happen to it".

[Horizon]

'Cause that means SMP BTW!

[TheAnarchitect]

Don't get ahead of ourselves. It'll mean a huge rewrite of the code base ,and one FC hasn't wanted to to do for reasons of it's a slog through the crappy SMP code. We'll probably be previous release for a good long time before we get SMP. My fear is that they won't fix enough of the SMP code for FC to want to work with it.

[walker_boh_65]

'Cause that means SMP BTW!

Can I suggest adding a rule to which goes along the lines of "Don't talk about BTW SMP"?
I'd like to see it quelled before anything gets out of hand. And in case the code is not completely merged and that SMP doesn't happen, the hopes were not crushed as bad.

[TheAnarchitect]

I like that rule: I think we should enforce it even if we ever get BTW servers.

First rule of BTW SMP is we do not talk about BTW SMP!

[Eriottosan]

Absolutely; the merger will likely mean hell for modders, God-knows how hard it'll be to get a version out of any of the big mods.

I agree, it should not be spoken of even if we get the servers!

[Itamarcu]

Anyone who says "BTW SMP" must also draw a card as punishment.

[PureZaros]

Anyone who says "BTW SMP" must also draw a card as punishment.

Is that a reference to a short story? If it is, I recognize it... Can't remember what story though. I read too much. :P

[Eriottosan]

I read too much.

You say that like it's a bad thing ... It's not!

[M!C]

You say that like it's a bad thing ... It's not!

It may not be a bad thing but it's definitely unhealthy ... at least for me ...

[Itamarcu]

Anyone who says "BTW SMP" must also draw a card as punishment.

Is that a reference to a short story? If it is, I recognize it... Can't remember what story though. I read too much. :P

It's a reference to Mao (the card game). In many versions , saying the name of the game is illegal (you have to draw a card when you do it). Just like speaking about the rules.

[TheAnarchitect]

IMHO it was a jab for using too many TLAs.

[FlowerChild]

Eh. I don't really mind that much. I've said myself in a few places that 1.3 will *likely* be the point at which BTW goes SMP.

I need to see the code of course to make a final decision, but from what I've heard, it seems like it will do the job.

But yes, it will likely involve a *huge* amount of work suddenly "forced" on me, and a potentially huge delay in updating to the new release, so I can't say that purely giddy reactions to it are entirely well-received.

[Eriottosan]

But yes, it will likely involve a *huge* amount of work suddenly "forced" on me, and a potentially huge delay in updating to the new release, so I can't say that purely giddy reactions to it are entirely well-received.

I think it's safe to say that most of us here understand that entirely. Your work on this mod is your downtime, you don't get paid for it, and we all appreciate it massively. In fact, I feel that it is largely the fact that it is a creation of your unforced mind which has allowed for such consistent and mindblowing content. I'm sure no-one here would wish for you to be forced into anything. Unfortunately that's the way vMC is going, and so you are being forced.
However, I know that I (and so I imagine most of the community) will be more than happy to either hold off on 1.3 (or run multiple version jars if people are that desperate for 1.3) until such a time as you are ready to accept the massive gauntlet Mojang are throwing at your - and other modders' - feet.
Personally, I'm not too bothered about SMP atm, I just want the extended IDs to come out so we can get 4.0, but it seems that 4096 is starting to be becoming the stuff of legends ...

tl;dr we all love BTW, FlowerChild, and as such none of us would wish for you to be forced into such a massive undertaking. But I, and the majority here I'm sure, will be here to support you to do it, at whatever speed you are comfortable with.

[TheAnarchitect]

Ditto. I appreciate that you do this at all, and my biggest hope for 1.3 is simply that updating the mod to it is not too annoying.

[morvelaira]

How much does a bottle of your favorite booze cost, FC? I can happily donate that for the cause to get you through the hell.

[FlowerChild]

Thanks guys, I appreciate all the support.

Honestly, part of me is looking forward to it too. I'd certainly like to play BTW with others, and I'm definitely chomping at the bit with regards to designing and implementing features specifically for SMP.

However, that enthusiasm is simply tempered by knowing there will be a hell of a lot of work involved in it, and probably some rather boring mundane work to boot.

As such, like I said, I don't mind people getting excited, just as long as there is some indication involved that they realize the personal cost involved for me.

[embirrim]

Actually, I've been wanting to ask this and I suppose this thread is as good a place as any.
I am somewhat familiar to programming, however I've never touched Java or the MC codebase, nor have I ever worked with an API. So if any savvy modder can enlighten me I'd be grateful =D

From what I've heard around, an API provides hooks into certain minecraft functions that allow a modder to add code in these places without actually modifying the base file. Is this right?
Basically, my concerns are as such. Who gets to decide what is a valid hook to go into the MC API? Isn't there stuff in the MC codebase that BTW coding straight up changes, in the sense that a hook wouldn't be enough? Basically, the way I picture it, we're going to lose an enormous amount of functionality from the mod with the coming of the API.

[Poppycocks]

The hooks are there for you to use

Or not.

It's the same situation as it is now really, but with more OOP and less hard-coded crap. The situation will certainly be better, a few mods will probably become plugins(that's what mojang called it? Can't remember), the rest will probably modify less base classes - if nothing else. Which means more compatibility one way or the other.

Also: "To add code in certain places" isn't quiiiite what's happening.

Example - Blocks, block recipes. Vanila stuff is hardcoded, your mod blocks are usually defined in mod_yourmod, and are registered trough a modloader hook. Not a very good explanation, but you don't exactly.... inject code into vanila code or anything. You do your own thing and let vanila know that you're doing it with a hook.

[FlowerChild]

Basically, my concerns are as such. Who gets to decide what is a valid hook to go into the MC API? Isn't there stuff in the MC codebase that BTW coding straight up changes, in the sense that a hook wouldn't be enough? Basically, the way I picture it, we're going to lose an enormous amount of functionality from the mod with the coming of the API.

If I don't continue modifying those files, yes, you are correct. However, Mojang has stated that mods will continue to exist, with "plug-ins" being what they refer to as mods that do not change any base-classes.

That's why I've been reluctant to make base-class changes as of late. So yes, your concern is valid, but not as do or die as you seem to be thinking. I'll still be able to mod base-classes once the API is out, I'd just prefer not to if possible.