Integrating the End into the Tech Tree

[RaustBlackDragon]

It's occurred to me that while the Nether is heavily featured in the BTW tech tree, currently the End doesn't have any role in it. To be fair, the End is far trickier to access than the Nether, and you need to kill the EnderDragon in order to take anything back to the overworld, so placing it in the middle of the tech tree would be rather problematic. But what if it's the next step after steel?

The Theme: Spatial Conquest

The Enderitch beings tend to have an interesting relationship with spatial laws. They can teleport, phase through materials, and destroy blocks on mass. And just as Steve learns to harness the souls of the nether to empower his tools, so too could he harness the latent energies of the End to suit his goals.

Imagine: Steve harnesses the EnderDragon's block-destroying power and creates a liquid with cement's physics, but which would obliterate any blocks below it rather than be stopped by them, with the exception of bedrock and EndStone. You could carve out massive areas in no time, just as you can use cement to fill IN massive areas currently.

Furthermore, with the ability to make Enderman Grinders, you could have a steady supply of Ender Pearls, making them a viable ingredient for items or blocks that would be made in massive amounts. I can think of plenty of existing items that would be better balanced by using ender pearls or eyes of ender, but then, that's just my opinion.

Or imagine an Enderitch storage minecart which, when right-clicked or triggered by some automated system, would instantly teleport straight up to the top of the map and fall down, allowing for automated instant vertical item transport, even into bases that are entirely unconnected with the ground, to keep monsters out.

Those are just a few ideas I came up with. I think the concept as a whole has a massive amount of potential.

Any thoughts?

[Gargantuan_Penguin]

woah.

one thing I don't like is the last one. the storage cart one. some other more controlled form of teleportation perhaps.

I like your ender liquid Idea the best. it would have to be very high up on the tech tree not to be overpowered though.

altogether an awesome idea. I can't wait to hear the turtles opinions.

[BinoAl]

While none of your particular ideas here seem to interesting (except maybe a reason to farm endermen), I do feel like the end should be involved in the tech tree soon. I bet FC will get to it eventually :)

[FlowerChild]

I've considered it briefly before, but the problem is that the resources in the end are both easy to find, and finite.

I'll keep it in the back of my mind though.

[MoRmEnGiL]

Well there is only one resource really unique to the end, the end stone. And, as FC stated above it is ridiculously easy to find and gather, and finite.

Unless he decided to add world gen stuff to the end, which I think is not really likely given his policies so far, there is not really much you can do with it..

One possible idea is devices that only work / stuff that only happens in the end, kind of how netherwart only grows in the nether, and compasses/beds only work in the overworld. But there has to be a feature that would make sense and be fitting to be moved to the end first, before going down such an avenue.

[FlowerChild]

The other problem with The End, is that it's not necessarily accessible with older maps (like mine).

Due to whatever map-update oddness, there only seems to be one stronghold location on my map, and it's occupied by chunks that were generated before strongholds existed.

I could probably use a map-editor to fix this, but just to say, it's not even guaranteed that all players can access the End with all their maps, so I wouldn't want to integrate resources obtainable from it into the tech-tree.

[MoRmEnGiL]

To be fair, I think the percentage of players with maps this old, playing the current btw release, and not willing to use mcedit or so to fix their map, well it is probably very very small.

Still,the end is just.. not very usable anyhow. The only thing you can do with it is make enderfarms with insane yields..

[DreamsofFury]

I have my very first map from 1.6 I think and I checked for a stronghold....its right on one of my megas that goes from bedrock to about halfway up to the sky, I did manage to go far enough to find another (9 compasses to make maps later) and its NOT worth my time to build a rail system to go ALL the way there just for an ender farm that I would have to AFK in basically to get any kind of output. Not that it matters much as its just a world I'm gradually MCediting things over to a flatland display world.....even then in my current world it would be semi pointless to make that much effort for a farm like that.

The whole "requires the end" like our nether stuff would be interesting and possibly worth it though, as "growing" things happen while your not in the areas.

[lostone1993]

what about just making it useful to end, like a branch of tech tree that might have some cool stuff but isnt necessary to complete the main tech tree

[FlowerChild]

what about just making it useful to end, like a branch of tech tree that might have some cool stuff but isnt necessary to complete the main tech tree

...or, I could devote my time to expanding the main tech tree.

[badmojo98]

this threads been in my head for days... i swear this isn't a semi-necro, i just wanted to think about the suggestion and consider whether it has merit.

how about add more mobs to the end. not new ones, just like giant zombies and spiders and maybe variations of the dragon. only killing the ender dragon would finish the end and let you go back to the overworld, but these other 'mini-bosses' in the end could have high chances to drop rare items, and extra resources. this could allow people to go to the end for a farming session, but encourage them only to do so when strong enough. the items you could get would be things for alchemy recipes, with a few iron bars and gold bars and maybe a diamond or two.

this would provide both a greater challenge in 'the end' realm, while making it something definitely worth doing, and providing an alternative to the monotony of underground mining. it would also provide a reason to go to the end, without discarding the vanilla MC theme of 'the end' and without unbalancing the resources in the game.

[Gargantuan_Penguin]

this threads been in my head for days... i swear this isn't a semi-necro, i just wanted to think about the suggestion and consider whether it has merit.

how about add more mobs to the end. not new ones, just like giant zombies and spiders and maybe variations of the dragon. only killing the ender dragon would finish the end and let you go back to the overworld, but these other 'mini-bosses' in the end could have high chances to drop rare items, and extra resources. this could allow people to go to the end for a farming session, but encourage them only to do so when strong enough. the items you could get would be things for alchemy recipes, with a few iron bars and gold bars and maybe a diamond or two.

this would provide both a greater challenge in 'the end' realm, while making it something definitely worth doing, and providing an alternative to the monotony of underground mining. it would also provide a reason to go to the end, without discarding the vanilla MC theme of 'the end' and without unbalancing the resources in the game.

this idea sounds like something for an entirely different mod. not gonna happen.

[badmojo98]

i was thinking the same things too tbh, but if we're discussing the viability of changes to the end that give it a unique purpose, without it damaging the tech-tree, then it's possibly a simple solution that fits the spirit of 'the end'

i guess the main problem with the end as i see it is 'why do we want to go to the end anyway?' ender dragons and dragon eggs and tons of xp are cool, but this perhaps gives you a reason to further integrate the end into your gameplay, without making it a demand. if there are rewards that don't unbalance the game, and instead provide alternate methods of resource gathering, it should fit.

essentially, the basis of this idea is adding new resources to harvest that are dropped from mobs unique to the end. i certainly don't want to suggest what theme the resources of the end should have, but it could imitate the way the nether has themes of fire and souls, and perhaps focus on the magical elements. it already gives tons of XP through the ender dragon, so perhaps the other side could be ingredients for alchemy on mass scale. once you start down this path of thinking, adding giant versions of overworld hostile mobs doesn't feel to me like it should be a different mod so much as a simple yet major addition, without really effecting the spirit of anything :)

[FlowerChild]

once you start down this path of thinking, adding giant versions of overworld hostile mobs doesn't feel to me like it should be a different mod so much as a simple yet major addition, without really effecting the spirit of anything :)

But you'd be wrong.

[BinoAl]

once you start down this path of thinking, adding giant versions of overworld hostile mobs doesn't feel to me like it should be a different mod so much as a simple yet major addition, without really effecting the spirit of anything :)

But you'd be wrong.

Oh, no, he's quite right. What I got from this is "If you change the focus and spirit of the mod, then this won't be out of focus or out of the spirit of the mod". ;)

[RaustBlackDragon]

Sorry about bringing this topic up, guys. I have never been to the end, and thus had no idea it was actually FINITE. That renders everything I've suggested meaningless :(

[FlowerChild]

Sorry about bringing this topic up, guys. I have never been to the end, and thus had no idea it was actually FINITE. That renders everything I've suggested meaningless :(

Well, it's a possibility for inclusion in recipes that only require limited or one time use, but it's not something I'd want to orient a regular feature around.

[orangeweaver]

I gotta say at this point in time, unless Mojang decided to you know flesh out and finish the End I would be really upset to see the End included in any meaningful way. Maybe FC might have something in mind and if that is the case I would wait and see and hold my tongue as much as possible until I get to thoroughly test such hypothetical inclusions ...

but really, the End is an unfinished joke of a "realm" in this game and I don't think including it will do anything w/ a positive impact to BTW. The nether might not have been t he huge update we had expected and still needs work from Mojang in my opinion but at least it had material and mobs to work w/ that makes it stand away from the overworld. The End is just sloppy and needs to be fixed or just done away with at this point.

[badmojo98]

binoAL, sorry if i was confusing, all i meant to say was:
i think adding rare giant mobs to the end wouldn't really change the spirit of the end, and therefore shouldn't mess with the spirit of game or the mod. as long as the rewards for killing these giant mobs was balanced, it could be a simple addition that offers a major gameplay addition.

i interpreted FC's disagreement as being that either it wouldn't be simple, or he didn't like the idea in general, thus it doesn't fit his mod. either way, i can accept those reasons. but i deny it doesn't fit the spirit of vMC XD

[BinoAl]

binoAL, sorry if i was confusing, all i meant to say was:
i think adding rare giant mobs to the end wouldn't really change the spirit of the end, and therefore shouldn't mess with the spirit of game or the mod. as long as the rewards for killing these giant mobs was balanced, it could be a simple addition that offers a major gameplay addition.

i interpreted FC's disagreement as being that either it wouldn't be simple, or he didn't like the idea in general, thus it doesn't fit his mod. either way, i can accept those reasons. but i deny it doesn't fit the spirit of vMC XD

A mod is defined by what it adds. In comparison to the other features in the mod that allow for technological development, adding things like this to the end is against the spirit of the mod, and really doesn't fit in

[FlowerChild]

A mod is defined by what it adds. In comparison to the other features in the mod that allow for technological development, adding things like this to the end is against the spirit of the mod, and really doesn't fit in

Not to mention that giant versions of existing creatures is pretty much the definition of lame.

[BinoAl]

Not to mention that giant versions of existing creatures is pretty much the definition of lame.

http://www.minecraftwiki.net/wiki/Giant
;)

[FlowerChild]

Not to mention that giant versions of existing creatures is pretty much the definition of lame.

http://www.minecraftwiki.net/wiki/Giant
;)

Yup, I've seen that before. I think there's a good reason it was never actually added to the game ;)

[Cybermario]

i think giants is a nice concept, but do not fit with the style of minecraft. as for The End, i really wanted to see more uses for it, but yeah having a finite resource makes me sad panda (abused of it in my old world for my buildings :P)

[FlowerChild]

i think giants is a nice concept, but do not fit with the style of minecraft. as for The End, i really wanted to see more uses for it, but yeah having a finite resource makes me sad panda (abused of it in my old world for my buildings :P)

Giant creatures are also a huge amount of work to get done properly. Pathfinding and animation issues become amplified with the size of the mob, and it's very hard to get something that doesn't look ridiculous and robotic. You'll notice that most games have boss-fights in fixed arenas or make the bosses themselves stationary for this reason.

The Ender Dragon has certain advantages in that it's a flying mob, and thus does not interact with the terrain too much. Of course, it still sucks, but having something giant in the air, or in space, makes it much more feasible.

Anyways, for anyone that thinks making a giant mob just involves increasing the size of a small one (which is indeed easy to do), that's just total bullshit. It's going to either look like crap or you're going to have to invest a huge amount of work into making it decent.