A Method To Locate Dungeons

[Dralnalak]

Perhaps I am doing something wrong, but I find that locating dungeons and their mossy cobblestone supply is probably the second most frustrating random hunt in Minecraft. (Wolves being first because I have not found a single wolf in about 100 hours of play since 1.8 came out.) Dungeons can be found in deserts sometimes if the sand collapses into them, and you may even mine into one, but this is purely a tiny random chance that you cannot seem to improve your odds on through any method I know of. I personally find more diamond veins that dungeons when branch mining.

Having seen how the Eye of Ender can be used to locate a stronghold, I would like to suggest a similar item for locating the nearest mob spawner in order to help track down dungeons.

Even if Flowerchild creates a way to "farm" mossy cobblestone, this item could still be useful because dungeons also have chests where extremely rare materials such as cocoa and saddles are found.

[Urian]

FC has said that he's planning to make mossy cobblestone produceable. As for chests, you get them in abundance in abandoned mines. That said, a way to find dungeons that fit the criteria of being easy to implement, suiting the mod and not using any mod resources could be useful.

[walker_boh_65]

There was something similar to this suggested before, and it was settled that no matter how it was done, this item would be far overpowered, or far too useless, although the way the eye of the ender works is far different from how what was suggested, IMO it would still be an overpowered item, even if lost.

[FlowerChild]

I'll have to take a look at the Eye Of Ender code. The thing is, I really doubt it's searching through every loaded block to determine if a stronghold is nearby. I get the impression stronghold co-ordinates are stored separately from regular block data.

Actually, I'm almost certain that is true, as I think the Eye of Ender moves towards the nearest stronghold even if it isn't in a loaded chunk.

Searching for the nearest mob spawner would thus not be as easy. It would actually probably be pretty performance intensive.

[JRoush]

Searching for the nearest mob spawner would thus not be as easy. It would actually probably be pretty performance intensive.

If it was done with a naive block-by-block search it certainly would be. But I'm pretty sure there are other, saner ways to do it. The question is whether it's worth modifying the mob spawner base classes.

I, personally, would rather have a mossy cobble farming mechanic instead. Aside from the spawners themselves (for mob grinding), mossy cobble is the only useful thing found in dungeons.

[FlowerChild]

If it was done with a naive block-by-block search it certainly would be. But I'm pretty sure there are other, saner ways to do it. The question is whether it's worth modifying the mob spawner base classes.

Yeah, if you're up for modifying base-classes, you can certainly do it. It would probably require a mod to the tile entity associated with the spawners to notify when one is being updated, and another to the player class to record the locations of spawners in the vicinity, or something along those lines.

But again, not a simple change.

[jorgebonafe]

Isn't it possible to use the seed to calculate where the closest spawner should be?

[JRoush]

Isn't it possible to use the seed to calculate where the closest spawner should be?

In principle yes, assuming you're using a world generated entirely with a single algorithm. Mojang frequently changes it, though, so chunks generated by older versions often don't match the worldgen algorithm of the current version. More importantly, the worldgen algorithm is based on pseudo-random numbers, making it difficult (read: impossible) to analytically calculate the specific features directly. So this method would be unreliable, and probably just as expensive (if not more) than scanning the existing chunk data block-by-block.

[ialdbaoloth]

I think sound is already a pretty good clue that there is spawner somewhere nearby, but the problem is that it's hard to tell if the sound is from above or below. Anyone with bad hearing must have it even worse.

Some way of getting a more precise direction to the nearest mob might be enough to make searching for dungeons less annoying. It would also have other uses underground. I often want to connect tunnels to natural caverns I hear nearby, but it usually turns into a crazy spiral around and up and down trying to get the right level and position.

Is there a convenient list of nearby mobs which is easier to search than scanning every block?

[Dralnalak]

Is there a convenient list of nearby mobs which is easier to search than scanning every block?

There is a list of all entities you can search to use to do things like make one critter follow another critter or head to a particular point. It's used in some of the tutorials on the Minecraft forum.

At that point, though, I think you're moving beyond a simple item and into some sort of advanced magical location system. While mining charges certainly have the start of what could be a ground penetrating sonar rig, I don't believe such technology would be within the scope of Better Than Wolves. Sounds more like Industrial Craft or one of the laser gun mods.


Honestly, if Flowerchild added a way to "farm" mossy cobblestone, that would at least allow me to build more block dispensers. For a long while, I used a mod where I grew a plant and then combined that plant with the cobblestone to make mossy cobblestone because I wanted to use it for decoration purposes. My last play-through, I just ripped out the contents of a stronghold and used the mossy and cracked stone brick for decoration, so I didn't include the farming of moss. I discovered zero dungeons on my own in that world, though. Fortunately, it's a seed others were playing and they posted some coordinates.


Maybe I'm just looking for dungeons wrong. I have never found one by sound; I only find them by accident or by obvious collapses in the desert.

[Zhil]

My last play-through, I just ripped out the contents of a stronghold and used the mossy and cracked stone brick for decoration

Why didn't you just craft them? Ripping apart a stronghold seems like a lot more work than smelting some cobble

[Dralnalak]

Why didn't you just craft them? Ripping apart a stronghold seems like a lot more work than smelting some cobble

You can craft stone brick, but you cannot craft the cracked and mossy versions. To get the decorative ones, you have to rip them out of a stronghold.

If I decide to use them again in a new world, I may just create a small mod for myself with recipes to make both. Probably bake stone brick to get cracked and combine the stone brick with ... vines or something for the mossy stone brick.

[jorgebonafe]

Why didn't you just craft them? Ripping apart a stronghold seems like a lot more work than smelting some cobble

You can craft stone brick, but you cannot craft the cracked and mossy versions. To get the decorative ones, you have to rip them out of a stronghold.

If I decide to use them again in a new world, I may just create a small mod for myself with recipes to make both. Probably bake stone brick to get cracked and combine the stone brick with ... vines or something for the mossy stone brick.

I may be wrong, but I believe that if you craft stone bricks, place them and then break them, there is a random chance of getting the cracked or the mossy version. At least in 1.8, unless that changed.

[MrGrau]

I may be wrong, but I believe that if you craft stone bricks, place them and then break them, there is a random chance of getting the cracked or the mossy version. At least in 1.8, unless that changed.

I personally cannot get Stone Bricks to produce Cracked/Mossy Stone Bricks when destroyed. I am however, able to produce Cracked/Mossy Stone Bricks from Stone Brick Stairs when destroyed.

EDIT: But this method brings the obvious problem of a pretty poor conversion rate. Six Stone Bricks for four stairs, and then you'll only get 1-2 Mossy Stone Bricks on average.
But on another view, once you're set up and have stoked cauldrons/crucible (I forget which one), you'll probably have lots of cobble by then. It'll just take time.

[the_fodder]

I may be wrong, but I believe that if you craft stone bricks, place them and then break them, there is a random chance of getting the cracked or the mossy version. At least in 1.8, unless that changed.

I personally cannot get Stone Bricks to produce Cracked/Mossy Stone Bricks when destroyed. I am however, able to produce Cracked/Mossy Stone Bricks from Stone Brick Stairs when destroyed.

EDIT: But this method brings the obvious problem of a pretty poor conversion rate. Six Stone Bricks for four stairs, and then you'll only get 1-2 Mossy Stone Bricks on average.
But on another view, once you're set up and have stoked cauldrons/crucible (I forget which one), you'll probably have lots of cobble by then. It'll just take time.

I read the Stair 'hack' has been fixed in the release.

[Katalliaan]

I wasn't able to get the stair trick to work in 1.8.1 SMP, but I don't know about SSP or release.

[the_fodder]

fixed in Beta 1.9 http://www.minecraftwiki.net/wiki/Stairs#Bugs

[Dirdle]

To return to the topic, how about something that renders the world below it transparent, like giving a block a see-through texture when it's supposed to be opaque? Something in the vein of a multi-block-system "scrying pool" perhaps? Seems more appropriate than a widget that goes ding when there's stuff. On the flip side, uses block IDs for something that might just make the game too easy, though arguably finding dungeons is laborious rather than hard.

[CreeperCommando]

The scrying tool kinda gave me an idea... Something that checks the different block ID's in the chunk/area it is located in and then in a restricted manner it shows you what blocks are related to that chunk/area. Could use same multiblock principle as the enchanting table to get more power, maybe that the more bookshelves you surround it with the more precious blocks it shows and/or in a larger area

This gives a tool that in a rather mystic way clues you on what is near you, but still shouldn't be more of a performance hit than simply check for block ID's in surrounding volumes in regular intervals.

Although this isn't that much in BTW feeling, IMO a crystal ball wouldn't be that out of place compared to enchanting tables....

[Dralnalak]

The scrying tool kinda gave me an idea... Something that checks the different block ID's in the chunk/area it is located in and then in a restricted manner it shows you what blocks are related to that chunk/area.

Something FlowerChild said above, which is something that I hadn't thought of when I proposed the idea, is a concern about the system load when checking an area. Every block would have to be checked because there's no "master list" of dungeons. That's a lot of blocks.

If you assume it looks withing 16 blocks horizontally of you and from bedrock to sky, that's (16*2)*2 * 128 blocks that have to be checked. (The ceiling is 128; isn't it?) Checking 8,192 blocks could be a bit of a system hitch.

I would really love a way to locate dungeons over a big area, but it doesn't seem likely without an outside program like one of the mappers. However, since FlowerChild is planning on making it possible to "farm" mossy cobblestone somehow, that will take care of making block dispensers.

[FlowerChild]

Keep in mind that with any kind of feature that enables you to see through walls or what have you, that you have to keep SMP in mind, and my own personal favorite variety: anarchy.

X-Ray cheats are one of the biggest problems with anarchy servers as they completely invalidate any attempts to hide your shit.

Just to say, I have to be very careful with regards to the design of any potential detection devices.

[CreeperCommando]

My idea was simply that you have a table with a 'crystal ball' on it. By interaction you can use it to see small random bits of blocks that surround you, simplest it shows a 'inaccessible' inventory slot or similar, where it regularly shows a block type that exists near the ball. If a GUI like interface is used' perhaps it could show more than one slot, for example 3x3 or 4x4 where it then can show small slices of the terrain here and there, perhaps giving you clues where more precisely blocks of interests can be.

Fleshing out my idea to implement the bookshelves thingy that should be in vMC 1.0.0, so that building a library around your scrying tool it could either:
Improve the size of this slices, allowing you to easier spot patterns.
Allowing you to see blocks of more interests, otherwise greying out/leaving patternslots blank, this would also help with anarchy-servers IMO (haven't played so only guesswork here) as you'd grow mighty suspicious if someone starts building a library near your hideout.
Improve the range of the tool, as long as the slices are ~9-16 blocks and updated no faster than ~2-3 sec it then shouldn't be a huge performance killer then.

But nonetheless, I can't see any form of scrying tool to feel like real BTW stuff. I'm simply having fun brainstorming nonetheless :)

[ialdbaoloth]

Is there a convenient list of nearby mobs which is easier to search than scanning every block?

At that point, though, I think you're moving beyond a simple item and into some sort of advanced magical location system. While mining charges certainly have the start of what could be a ground penetrating sonar rig, I don't believe such technology would be within the scope of Better Than Wolves. Sounds more like Industrial Craft or one of the laser gun mods.

I don't see how a magic ball that flies off towards the nearest mob is any fancier than your original request for a magic
ball that flies off towards the nearest dungeon - and hopefully could be done with less system load than scanning thousands
of blocks for spawners.

[MoRmEnGiL]

Ah, how I'll miss the old F3 with the nametags ;]

The dungeon detector could be as simple as a compass like item, that points to the nearest spawner, along with a hot/cold color indicator for depth (eg red if it is lower than you, blue if it is higher)

It could even have to be charged with some sort of mystical fuel (I'm sure FC can make up something suitably macabre or hilarious) in order to enable some balancing.

In terms of code cost, it simply checks to find a spawner when charged, and is fixed to pointing at it until you right click with it on said spawner to reset it. (or *insert other possible reset scenario*)

This way you avoid constant checks, and it works like an item already in vMC which does something similar, points to a fixed point.

[DaWhiskers]

It could even have to be charged with some sort of mystical fuel (I'm sure FC can make up something suitably macabre or hilarious) in order to enable some balancing.

Oh why does this scream to use the companion cube as a fuel to me (using the cube to sniff out the dungeon).

Apologies for the potential recipe suggestion, but the way it fits with the abilities of real wolves/dogs to track by scent just screams at me for its hilarity!!!