New Release! (BTW V2.97)

[Mrchaim]

Heh. Shiny. Throwing Soul Urns is a barrel of laughs, i can see that being good fun in multiplayer. or just in the real world if you want some expensive, hilarious, and poorly aimed mass demolition of dirt & it's ilk.

"And Zen, Ve unleash... ZE ARMY OF ZE DAMNED!" (Feel free to switch cheesy accent to cheesy accent of your choice).

I don't know if you saw this, but in the previous release thread i offered that I'd be willing to take a shot (time permitting) at making a proper, visual version of the tech tree - I'm a graphic design student, and pretty decent one, so I've got the skills and tools to put such a thing together. It'd just be a matter of having the time, and making sure that everything's actually accurate.

One question: What's the intent with Nethercoal currently? I ask, because well, frankly? It's feeling a bit not exactly "Nerfed" as such, but it's certainly a lot less needed en-bulk now that the crucible does Glass and Smooth Stone production for you.

Heck, furnaces themselves are feeling a little bit lonely now - Without meaning to ask for spoilers as such, is there any chance we'll see more reasons to use them (And by extension, Nethercoal) in the future?

[Stormweaver]

Read through the updated OP (as a metter of course) and it reads well :) of course, why would I be telling you this?

Spoiler

Show

If it saves you a bit of work, I may as well help. The following sections have outdated information in the descriptions (only)

doughnuts - stack to x seems redundant
age of wood tier 2: secondary goals - detector blocks are now anvil tech
saw description - logs are sawn into 6 planks now?
hopper - porkchops now stack, etc
kiln - only needs bricks on 4 sides now
planter - doesn't need water putting in it
detector block - doesn't require lapis blocks atm

as far as I can tell, those are the only errors. Pretty good job, given how huge the OP is now >.<

[FlowerChild]

doughnuts - stack to x seems redundant
age of wood tier 2: secondary goals - detector blocks are now anvil tech
saw description - logs are sawn into 6 planks now?
hopper - porkchops now stack, etc
kiln - only needs bricks on 4 sides now
planter - doesn't need water putting in it
detector block - doesn't require lapis blocks atm

Thanks man! That's actually incredibly helpful. I got tired after putting in the new recipes and such and whimped-out on doing a full read-through :)

[Stormweaver]

doughnuts - stack to x seems redundant
age of wood tier 2: secondary goals - detector blocks are now anvil tech
saw description - logs are sawn into 6 planks now?
hopper - porkchops now stack, etc
kiln - only needs bricks on 4 sides now
planter - doesn't need water putting in it
detector block - doesn't require lapis blocks atm

Thanks man! That's actually incredibly helpful. I got tired after putting in the new recipes and such and whimped-out on doing a full read-through :)

That's what we're here for man :)

[MagusUnion]

Why the cement change?

Integration into the tech-tree, plus in this case I'm thinking of balancing it for SMP in the future.

I figure the likelihood of a griefer spending 10 or so hours getting through the tech-tree to get a bucket of cement is rather minimal ;)

I guess... but now my IC^2 recipe with RP Marble, Gravel, and Water cells seems silly because of the weird noises cement makes, lol...

[Phantum]

The problem with that logic though, is that if someone comes into the server, people are probably gonna have already proceeded into that area of the tech tree, so it's just a matter of them going, using someone else's productions, and griefing that way. (They're demonically brilliant at finding ways around things) :(

Yup, I hear you, but keep in mind that beyond griefing, for legitimate players, Cement will also be a hugely powerful weapon, which is also where the SMP balance issues come in.

Plus, at the very least, it does require a griefer to have a good understanding of how the mod works, track down the required materials, cook the pottery, fire the kiln, etc. and requires the use of a stationary emplacement to create. It may not be perfect, but it's not as easy to be sure.

But yes, I doubt I'll put out an SMP version without putting in a sever-option for disabling cement.

Hmm that's actually a good point, you could probably use it for traps and stuff as well :)

I love cement for "pouring" my walls etc, too much fun :D

[FurkeyRefills]

You're running out of wriggle room before 3.0 FC ! ;)

Thanks for all the nice tweaks, this patch had more in it than the last aether patch for sure !

[FlowerChild]

You're running out of wriggle room before 3.0 FC ! ;)

Nah man! Maybe when I hit version 2.999999 you can say the same thing, but I still have a lot of decimals left to explore ;)

[FurkeyRefills]

You're running out of wriggle room before 3.0 FC ! ;)

Nah man! Maybe when I hit version 2.999999 you can say the same thing, but I still have a lot of decimals left to explore ;)

Oh, yeah never thought about that ! Awesome tweak update !

[Simone]

Great changes! (i love the various bug fixes)
Thank you Flower Child!

[Damion Rayne]

So, if I may ask..what's the point of Concentrated Hellfire now, outside the Hibachi?

[Mason11987]

-Changed recipe for the filled Planter to no longer include a water bucket so that they can be mass-crafted.

Opens chest with 128 filled planters I made yesterday...

*sigh*

never again. :)

Edit - Awesome update by the way.

I love smoothstone/glass in the crucible, and while at first I thought it was a little overpowered to not need fuel (that was my major use of the furnances previously), I realized that it's pretty slow, and not easy to scale up to a dozen like furnaces, so it works out very well.

Well done!

[Mrchaim]

I'm wondering that myself - simple building up a steel reserve has resulted in copius piles of hellfire dust - And as i mentioned up thread, i hardly need it for mass-crafting stuff anymore, not to mention it's creating semi-conflicting (Not really, but you get the idea) with that of steel.

Actually, there's a suggestion (I know, i know, recipe suggestions are bad, hear me out) - Why not change the Sand -> Glass, Cobblestone -> Smoothstone recipe in the crucible to require a piece of nethercoal for every 16 bits converted (The same rate as it works in the forge), but allow it to simply cook it all in one large chunk? That adds a nice reason to use the crucible over the forges due to the speed difference, but restores the point of actually MAKING nethercoal, at least partially.

Sorry for putting that suggestion there, but i felt it was worth bringing up in the context of things. I do suspect however that with a new age dawning *dramatic music*, it's entirely likely we'll see more uses for concentrated hellfire and nethercoal down the road. At least, i hope so!

[Tekei]

I'm wondering that myself - simple building up a steel reserve has resulted in copius piles of hellfire dust - And as i mentioned up thread, i hardly need it for mass-crafting stuff anymore, not to mention it's creating semi-conflicting (Not really, but you get the idea) with that of steel.

Actually, there's a suggestion (I know, i know, recipe suggestions are bad, hear me out) - Why not change the Sand -> Glass, Cobblestone -> Smoothstone recipe in the crucible to require a piece of nethercoal for every 16 bits converted (The same rate as it works in the forge), but allow it to simply cook it all in one large chunk? That adds a nice reason to use the crucible over the forges due to the speed difference, but restores the point of actually MAKING nethercoal, at least partially.

Sorry for putting that suggestion there, but i felt it was worth bringing up in the context of things. I do suspect however that with a new age dawning *dramatic music*, it's entirely likely we'll see more uses for concentrated hellfire and nethercoal down the road. At least, i hope so!

While you do raise a point and I too would like to see more uses for hellfire dust, I am much more eager to get rid of my huge surplus of flint! :P

EDIT: Thanks for the update FC. It's awesome!
The change I like the most by far atm is the need for gold to make DBs. it's not much but it is SOMETHING. Having introduced two of my friends to BTW a few days ago (we usually sit on Ventrilo while playing) and explained the basics to them one of them cried out in joy "Yay! I found gold, that must be used for something, right!?". :P Now it actually is :)

[Mrchaim]

While you do raise a point and I too would like to see more uses for hellfire dust, I am much more eager to get rid of my huge surplus of flint! :P

Actually, this just made me consider things abit more:

The problem's not really how Better Than Wolves is handling things. It's simply making it more obvious - The "problem" is that when you get down to it, short of diamond, resources are abundant in minecraft.

And, when you get down to it, you have very little reason to use them up - Short of epic minecart stations, you're unlikely to chew throw _that_ much iron, especially if you go cave delving. So on and so forth. Better than Wolves does help here in giving you reasons to chew up resources (Since by default, minecraft faces the " 'Win' game with dirt shack" dilema), but it also points out this issue quite strongly once you have a crucible and the sustainability that offers.

We're simply noticing it in the cases of hellfire dust, nethercoal, and flint because the first two are high-effort, but also relatively easy to mass produce to the point you have no use for them past a certain point, and the latter is a natural consequence of converting gravel to sand, and quickly outstrips your need for arrows or lighters.

Hence you end up with massive piles of a resource that cannot easily be used up and are left going "Well, uh.... what now?"

Just my 2cents on things, having had a chance to think some more on it.

[Itamarcu]

"...-Changed the Kiln so that it can be constructed out of 4 brick blocks instead of 5. This means you can now have two sides open on a Kiln to aid in automation. As always, the block at the bottom of the Kiln MUST be brick."

Just like my idea!
Anyway, thanks Flowerchild. I thinnk all of the balancing updates really flesh out the mod's tech tree.
Also, i'm trying to draw one for myself right now.

[Urian]

An abundance of resources is indeed something inherent to vMC and BTW helps remove some of it but still, if you play long enough then you will have stockpiles of it. I'm not sure if there really is a good way to overcome this while still maintaining a balance for when you're earlier on in the tech tree. I suppose one benefit of the Equivalent Exchange mod is that it helps you do something with your resources but that system feels a bit weird to me.

Also, keep in mind that the tech tree is still expanding and we're nearing a new age where we might need larger amounts of our precious resources :p

Oh, and yay for new updates! I'm still taking a break from Minecraft (which is also why I haven't updated the JS-texture pack) but it looks like there will be plenty of new toys to play around with when I get back :) Trying to design automated systems in my head is a great way to spend time when you can't sleep.

[Thieme]

We're simply noticing it in the cases of hellfire dust, nethercoal, and flint because the first two are high-effort, but also relatively easy to mass produce to the point you have no use for them past a certain point, and the latter is a natural consequence of converting gravel to sand, and quickly outstrips your need for arrows or lighters.

Hence you end up with massive piles of a resource that cannot easily be used up and are left going "Well, uh.... what now?"

I dread to think how much Flint Battosay has XD

Anyways nice update Flower

[Battosay]

Cool, a new update :)
Thanks bro' !
Off to do the New Release video ^^

PS : Isn't there one thing missing in this release ? You-know-what ? I've been dreaming about this one all night ! Decided against it finally ?

I dread to think how much Flint Battosay has XD

I stoped storing them after the 10th full chest, now the gravel recycler only keep the sand, and sent the flints into a cactus :)

[FlowerChild]

PS : Isn't there one thing missing in this release ? You-know-what ? I've been dreaming about this one all night ! Decided against it finally ?

Lol! I know...I know. It's still coming, don't worry. I just didn't feel like I had really found *the* solution yet, and want to make sure that when I do it, it's done properly :)

[Itamarcu]

Awww....
Is that a spoiler?

[morvelaira]

It doesn't spoil anything. All we know - that we've known all along - is that /something/ is coming.

I sure as hell doubt it's Winter. >_>

[BinoAl]

PS : Isn't there one thing missing in this release ? You-know-what ? I've been dreaming about this one all night ! Decided against it finally ?

Lol! I know...I know. It's still coming, don't worry. I just didn't feel like I had really found *the* solution yet, and want to make sure that when I do it, it's done properly :)

Hm, i know you had just mentioned how gold will be used in optics and the like... Are we finally getting lenses? ^.^ *waits to be told its none of my damned business*

[FurkeyRefills]

PS : Isn't there one thing missing in this release ? You-know-what ? I've been dreaming about this one all night ! Decided against it finally ?

I sense a yearning for mossy ! ;)

[Mason11987]

-Changed the Axe Tweaks to use the Forge tool system and removed the option to disable them from the config file since they should no longer cause incompatibility problems as a result of this change. This should also allow axes from other Forge mods to take advantage of the axe tweaks as well, and be effective on BTW blocks.

For anyone else playing BTW + IC2 like me and carrying a steel pick and an iron pick, you'll be happy to know you can just use steel now thanks to this :).