New Release! (BTW V2.96)

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Mrchaim
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Re: New Release! (BTW V2.96)

Post by Mrchaim »

FlowerChild wrote: Well, 2 thoughts on that. First, pretty much every resource in Minecraft is random. The more rare the resource is, the more apparent that becomes, but technically (as far as I know anyways), you could also get extremely unlucky and say never be able to find coal in a world.

So basically, ANYTHING in the mod that is dependent on rare resources can run into trouble like this in a particular seed, from wolves, to lapis, to mossy cobble. Sometimes you'll have tons of one, and sometimes none of another.

Of course, the more random factors the mod is dependent upon, the more likely this is to balance out in the long run. You'll have a bitch of a time finding wolves, but have plentiful lapis, or whatever, whereas on another play through, you'll have the opposite situation.

Now, I'm not willing to rule rare resources out of the mod completely. I think they're an important part of what makes the tech-progression interesting and a part of what also encourages exploration of the world around you.
And randomness breeds fun! I have no idea if you play Magic the Gathering at all, but one of the things the lead desiger, Mark Rosewater, reguarly pushes is the fact that due to it's nature as a card game and the limit of 4 of a particular card in your deck, you simply never get the exactly same games - Even more so in the Commander format, where you have a 100 card deck, with no duplicates allowed.

And it;'s really true - I've not found much laps in my worlds with my branch mine, but i got incredibly lucky with diamond - enough to have a full set of tools within a few minecraft nights. No wolves, but a slime spawning chunk right next to my spawn point. So on and so forth, making my progression through the tech tree quite unique to previous times.

FlowerChild wrote:My thought on it is that having to do these kinds of things is the most fun the first time that you have to do it in a world, but that once you have, the player shouldn't necessarily be limited in how many of a particular item they should be able to produce. This is kinda the way wolves work right now (ignoring the temporary thing I just did for wood and tanning for a moment). Once you find a couple, there's no need to continue searching as you have a continuing source of dung. It's almost like you've discovered the "dung tech" and you're done with it.

I'm thinking I'd like the mossy cobble to work in a similar fashion. You'd still be required to track down that first dungeon, but once you did, you'd be able to farm the cobble to your heart's content. Anyways, as I said, it's something I've been considering as well, so it'll likely be coming to the mod in the next few versions.
That does sound like pretty much exact what i was hoping to hear. I do hope that whatever the farming option is, it's still on the slow side - Simply so that if you do uncover another dungeon, it'll keep the "Oh, sweet!" factor, but without the sting of "...and this is probably the last i'll see for a while".

I look forward to seeing your solution, dood!

(Also, Recettear is vunderful)
KriiEiter
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Re: New Release! (BTW V2.96)

Post by KriiEiter »

KWilt wrote:As inspired by Recettear, I must say that I think BTW needs a new splash text:

"Dictatorship, ho!"
I feel like dictators don't take advice from their subjects though, which does happen from time to time in this BTWtatorship (tater-ship lol?).

I like the fact that you're thinking of ways to 'farm' mossy but still make it so it has to be found first. 'Growing' mossy sounds like a fun (and hopefully requirement specific) new farming mechanic.
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FlowerChild
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Re: New Release! (BTW V2.96)

Post by FlowerChild »

Hehe...I doubt I would actually go this route, but I must admit with the advent of villages, turning Minecraft into some twisted version of Tropico with this mod would be quite amusing :)
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Battosay
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Re: New Release! (BTW V2.96)

Post by Battosay »

FlowerChild wrote:I'm thinking I'd like the mossy cobble to work in a similar fashion. You'd still be required to track down that first dungeon, but once you did, you'd be able to farm the cobble to your heart's content. Anyways, as I said, it's something I've been considering as well, so it'll likely be coming to the mod in the next few versions.
Is this real ? Or am I still sleeping, and my dreams are becoming real ?

By turning them over to the private sector, you let the law of supply and demand take care of the whole problem for you. The privatized prisons obviously want to make more money by throwing as much of the populace in prison as possible thus causing them to increase the size of the police force to the maximum sustainable by the population, while their lobbyists will ensure that the police are enforcing ever more draconian laws keeping your people in a blissful state of maximum repression at all times.
Lol !
Reminds me of something ;)
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Shengji
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Re: New Release! (BTW V2.96)

Post by Shengji »

Nature Overhaul currently allows you to farm mossy cobblestone by allowing it to slowly spread over regular cobble adjacent to it, just food for thought - I don't think it's a fit for btw as it is, but I don't want to turn this into an idea suggestion!
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BinoAl
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Re: New Release! (BTW V2.96)

Post by BinoAl »

Thalmane wrote:Or I could take the American approach to it. Seduce the populace with mass media and begin a generational mind control. Distort the people values and have them focus more on something that really holds no value to their existence and convince them that said things brings them happiness. Just lock them in that loop of searching for happiness and I'm free to do whatever I want as long as I don't interupt their new perception.
...
My life... It's a lie...
:3
Nah, I'm american and I've known this since elementary school. Luckily, I don't watch tv, have kinda messed up ideas on morality anyway, and I'm not very materialistic. I'm doin' fine. :D
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DaveYanakov
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Re: New Release! (BTW V2.96)

Post by DaveYanakov »

At least we who grew up American had the opportunity to secure our own education by reading between and behind the lines. For example, I have been aware from quite a young age that the United States wouldn't bloody exist if it weren't for the French kicking British arse back on the continent.
Better is the enemy of Good
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Kwilt
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Re: New Release! (BTW V2.96)

Post by Kwilt »

Um... I'm not sure if it's bad or not, but did you derail the thread, Flower?

Or was that someone else?
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FlowerChild
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Re: New Release! (BTW V2.96)

Post by FlowerChild »

Battosay wrote: Is this real ? Or am I still sleeping, and my dreams are becoming real ?
Lol! I told you I'd look into it man. I mean it when I say that :)
KWilt wrote:Um... I'm not sure if it's bad or not, but did you derail the thread, Flower?

Or was that someone else?
Hehe...well, it was mine to derail, but yes, I do believe I did ;)
Adjudicator79
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Re: New Release! (BTW V2.96)

Post by Adjudicator79 »

Question on the actual update. Did the soulforged steel recipe change again? As far as I can tell, it should be one carbon powder, one concentrated hellfire, and three iron producing steel in a crucible.

My crucible is working fine for smelting down rails (hooray for an abandoned mineshaft!), but I can't get the steel to forge. Did I miss a recipe adjustment somewhere?
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Glox
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Re: New Release! (BTW V2.96)

Post by Glox »

Adjudicator79 wrote:Question on the actual update. Did the soulforged steel recipe change again? As far as I can tell, it should be one carbon powder, one concentrated hellfire, and three iron producing steel in a crucible.

My crucible is working fine for smelting down rails (hooray for an abandoned mineshaft!), but I can't get the steel to forge. Did I miss a recipe adjustment somewhere?
Yup you did. Use a Soul urn instead of concentrated hellfire: Soulforged Steel
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Triskelli
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Re: New Release! (BTW V2.96)

Post by Triskelli »

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"Dictatorship, HO!!!"


Man, I can't wait for all these new elements to be implemented! Bombers, Agent Orange, bio-corps, Mass Media, and unlockable items for Tropico! Freakin' awesome.
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Itamarcu
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Re: New Release! (BTW V2.96)

Post by Itamarcu »

It may be just me, but the Stone Sidings take a lot of time to mine with a pickaxe. on the other hand, an AXE (probably a bug) destroys the block faster.
You may want to test this, since the only mod I had installed is this one.
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DaveYanakov
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Re: New Release! (BTW V2.96)

Post by DaveYanakov »

Stone siding is a variant of the wood. It's the same reason you need a pick to break 'wood' stone slabs.
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Itamarcu
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Re: New Release! (BTW V2.96)

Post by Itamarcu »

Oh, bummer....
Are you sure there's no way to fix it? or is the only way is to create it as a whole new block?
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Gilberreke
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Re: New Release! (BTW V2.96)

Post by Gilberreke »

itamarcu wrote:Oh, bummer....
Are you sure there's no way to fix it? or is the only way is to create it as a whole new block?
For now it's the only way, but it's a known issue that irks FC, so it might become possible in the future, in which case FC will probably quickly implement it.
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Battosay
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Re: New Release! (BTW V2.96)

Post by Battosay »

Why not make it respond to both the axe and the pickaxe ? :)
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MoRmEnGiL
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Re: New Release! (BTW V2.96)

Post by MoRmEnGiL »

Is such a minor thing worth the inherent problems of further tweaks of vanilla functionality though? If FC further consolidates tools as he seems to be planning to, it will be trivial to always have the right tool at hand.

I mean axe and sword in one tool and shovel and pick in another pretty much gives you the ability to deal with almost anything in only 2 hotbar slots.
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Stormweaver
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Re: New Release! (BTW V2.96)

Post by Stormweaver »

MoRmEnGiL wrote:Is such a minor thing worth the inherent problems of further tweaks of vanilla functionality though? If FC further consolidates tools as he seems to be planning to, it will be trivial to always have the right tool at hand.

I mean axe and sword in one tool and shovel and pick in another pretty much gives you the ability to deal with almost anything in only 2 hotbar slots.
Makes more sense than a paxel. At any rate, Normally people are fine mining with just a sword and a pickaxe - dirt breaks fairly qucikly with fists, and gravel even faster with torches. In the same way the battlaxe improes on the functionality by upping it's damage (though not in the same league as the sword) I wouldn't see the harm in a pickaxe having a slight bonus vs soft things. Being soulforged steel, maybe a fast way of getting soulsand would be nice too. Hate digging for soulsand.
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Mrchaim
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Re: New Release! (BTW V2.96)

Post by Mrchaim »

So, having made it to steel now, and effeictively being "Done" (in the sense of not being able to advance further) with the mod, i wanted to write down my thoughts on it. These are just opinions, nothing more - i just wanted to write down my thoughts on going from zero to "Strides across the landscape, covered in the souls of the tortured dead"

-I like the way the progression goes now. You're encourage to build up a hemp farm of some kind early, and then upgrade it a self-harvesting form of some kind asap, as having a constant supply of hemp/hemp fibres really does help.

-The Windmill still feels very weird - I had mine for not much time at all, due to having acess to a slime-spawning chunk almost literally under the spawn point - It ended up feeling like a mild-hiccup in the grand scheme of things, and a sort of annoying one.

-Handcranks feel, well, anti-fun currently - I understand why they're in the mod, logically, but their complete lack of purpose once you have constant (Reliable) mechanical power is really weird. The fact that they chew through hunger is does not help this feeling either - Then again, i maintain the entire hunger system is freaking weird currently, which is nothing to do with the Mod. (Seriously, getting punched in the face makes you hungry?)

-Cauldrons are the best thing ever - They ended up as my early "alternative" to hoppers, allowing for a collection point, yet not one that provided anything more than the collection - I really liked this, as it gave me a reason to build multiple cauldrons, which were then used later in on the creation of my rendering facilities, cooking, tanning, etcera.

-Soulforged Steel is still incredibly powerful - It may simply be the perspective of literally not having anything more than a diamond sword for most of the game, to suddenly having a full set of Soulforged Armour and gear that's speaking here, however - And it's not like Minecraft's combat system is all that engaging in the first place. Still, the one-shottyness of the sword feels a little cheap.

-I really, really, really like the addition of Soul Urns to things - They prompted me to build a far more significant, and far more cleverly designed grinding and tanning/coalescing (Seems the best word as any for converting hellfire dust to Condensed Hellfire/Nethercoal) factory than my previous worlds had had - While it required a bit more manual work, it's a lot more satisfying designing things so that i can flip between safely converting it with a powered hopper, and being able to

- In general, i think my world's progression ended up being a little weird - I still am yet to see a single wolf, but lived in a Taiga biome, so tanning was technically easy mode for me (Or would have been if i could find any damn cows... Well, i did, but they were not common. Frigging sheep). Always redstone starved, yet had plenty of diamond and slime. Almost no lapis. Decent amounts of iron. 3 dungeons in easy reach of my base. So on and so forth. It certainly made things interesting!

So yeah, interesting times - If i have any more thoughts, i'll add them. I will say that while I've "Finished" the tech-tree, it's only in the form of a relatievely tiny 34 long, 22 deep, 15 wide area - Workable, does everything i technically need it too, But with plenty of other things i could still build (Wheat farms
Kunizial
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Re: New Release! (BTW V2.96)

Post by Kunizial »

i just love this mod, but i dont like the way the bd's recipe is going.
it is really powerfull, but it now needs (almost) all steps of the tech-tree,
and i dont like this. it is not a "age of vanilla" block anymore.
I would like it much more, if the farming of mossy stone would need
the tech-tree, but the bd not.

all other things are really great!
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FlowerChild
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Re: New Release! (BTW V2.96)

Post by FlowerChild »

Kunizial wrote:it is not a "age of vanilla" block anymore.
Yup, you're right about that. My intent is to completely eliminate the 'Age Of Vanilla" from the mod.
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Gilberreke
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Re: New Release! (BTW V2.96)

Post by Gilberreke »

FlowerChild wrote:
Kunizial wrote:it is not a "age of vanilla" block anymore.
Yup, you're right about that. My intent is to completely eliminate the 'Age Of Vanilla" from the mod.
As it is right now, that seems to be the best thing. The vanilla age items seem really out of place, except for the cauldron of course.
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BinoAl
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Re: New Release! (BTW V2.96)

Post by BinoAl »

Gilberreke wrote:
FlowerChild wrote:
Kunizial wrote:it is not a "age of vanilla" block anymore.
Yup, you're right about that. My intent is to completely eliminate the 'Age Of Vanilla" from the mod.
As it is right now, that seems to be the best thing. The vanilla age items seem really out of place, except for the cauldron of course.
The cauldron is actually incorporated into the tech tree, thats why it feels like it fits right in. The mod started with 6 basic blocks, that were fixing glaring issues with minecraft, i.e. redstone powered light blocks, booster rails, etc. He did it with far less effort than notch has put into maps, wolves, and additions with large development cost, yet no real gameplay elements added. Now that it has grown to have an overarching tech tree, incorporating the original blocks is definitely the way to go :D
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FlowerChild
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Re: New Release! (BTW V2.96)

Post by FlowerChild »

Gilberreke wrote: As it is right now, that seems to be the best thing. The vanilla age items seem really out of place, except for the cauldron of course.
Yeah, incorporating the Cauldron into the written tech-tree on the Minecraft forums is a bit of a problem regardless. There's actually two "trunks" to the tech tree involving the mechanical power aspects, and the Cauldron, which merge together further up with stoked fire.

Anyways, I like it like that, I'm just still wondering how exactly I'm going to write it up :)
BinoAl wrote: The cauldron is actually incorporated into the tech tree, thats why it feels like it fits right in. The mod started with 6 basic blocks, that were fixing glaring issues with minecraft, i.e. redstone powered light blocks, booster rails, etc. He did it with far less effort than notch has put into maps, wolves, and additions with large development cost, yet no real gameplay elements added. Now that it has grown to have an overarching tech tree, incorporating the original blocks is definitely the way to go :D
Precisely, and all those blocks were made before a time where the mod was large enough to even consider having any kind of overall tech-progression other than what was already built into vanilla (by using rare blocks in their recipes).

Several people commented with time that they no longer really felt like they were part of the mod as a result, but were rather just kinda "tagged on", and I definitely agreed with that.

The other thing I didn't like about them is that having them in the "Age of Vanilla" confronted new players with a massive amount of new functionality, some of it pretty complex in its use, soon as they started playing with the mod. It really confused the "what do I do first?" question.

Once I get rid of the Age of Vanilla entirely, the answer becomes a simple "build a Hand Crank & Mill Stone, or build a Cauldron". All those items are very simple in their initial use, so it provides a much better entry-point to the mod IMO.
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