New Release! (BTW V2.96)

[MagusUnion]

Here's an idea for the composite bow issue. Composite Crossbow. Crossbows can only shoot at maximum draw so just add a delay for balancing issues between shots. Maybe that would be an easier fix then changing all of the base classes :\

I think so too.. would also be interesting if the reason you could only fire Broadhead Arrrows from crossbow's is due to the increased weight of the tip, so you need the mechanical leverage of the Crossbow firing mechanism in order for the arrow to retain it's velocity as it's being launched...

Fits with the mod, imo...

[FlowerChild]

I think so too.. would also be interesting if the reason you could only fire Broadhead Arrrows from crossbow's is due to the increased weight of the tip, so you need the mechanical leverage of the Crossbow firing mechanism in order for the arrow to retain it's velocity as it's being launched...

Fits with the mod, imo...

IMO, a crossbow doesn't really fit the mod right now given that they were normally slow rate-of-fire armor piercing kinda weapons. There aren't really any armored foes in the game, and thus slowing down the rate of fire for that benefit wouldn't really work.

Also, historical crossbows don't fire arrows, and certainly wouldn't fire something like a Broadhead. They fire bolts, which would certainly suit the whole Steel thing better, but again, not much point given the lack of armored foes.

Once the mod is SMP, I might reconsider the inclusion of Crossbows for taking down armored players, but we're not there yet.

[DaveYanakov]

Crossbows came into standard use because a crossbowman could be trained in a few months where an archer took years. It takes a very heavy crossbow (as in steel-spanned arbalest) to get reliable armour penetration at any kind of range. Most of the early models were fairly light, capable of being reloaded with a stirrup or goats foot rather than a winch.

[Magmarashi]

Crossbows came into standard use because a crossbowman could be trained in a few months where an archer took years. It takes a very heavy crossbow (as in steel-spanned arbalest) to get reliable armour penetration at any kind of range. Most of the early models were fairly light, capable of being reloaded with a stirrup or goats foot rather than a winch.

And could be reloaded as quickly as a Bowman could fire if placed in the hands of a skilled bolter. Many very early lever-action and ammo-feed systems were inspired but some of the more complex Crossbow models that pioneered easier lever-cocking and bolt clips. The Crossbow was the weapon of choice for personal and home defence for a very long time (Thieves and beasts generally didn't wear armor).

~The More You Know~

[FlowerChild]

And could be reloaded as quickly as a Bowman could fire if placed in the hands of a skilled bolter. Many very early lever-action and ammo-feed systems were inspired but some of the more complex Crossbow models that pioneered easier lever-cocking and bolt clips. The Crossbow was the weapon of choice for personal and home defence for a very long time (Thieves and beasts generally didn't wear armor).

~The More You Know~

I'd need to see references to believe the above about reload speed man. I certainly don't claim to be a crossbow expert (I don't think I've ever even fired one), but every source I've seen clearly states that crossbows are far slower to reload.

As for home defense, I can see that being the case given both what is said above about not requiring as much training, given that it was probably easier to wield them in close quarters due to their size (same as why a handgun or SMG is better in close quarters), and given that they could be loaded and remain cocked for the first shot in advance.

[Magmarashi]

I'd need to see references to believe the above about reload speed man. I certainly don't claim to be a crossbow expert (I don't think I've ever even fired one), but every source I've seen clearly states that crossbows are far slower to reload.

It was on some History channel show, so I can't really source that up from where I got the info. I watch a lot of those kinds of shows on History and Military as they pertain to weapon technology, very interesting stuff. Yeah, Crossbows are pretty slow to reload for even someone of fair skill in them, the reload speeds they talk about were more on the skill scale of master bowmen that could rain rapid death from the skies without faltering. Not something that was common outside of rigorous physical and dexterous training.

Yeah, being able to load it and leave it was a huge deal, and those that could afford to have even the cheap models did.


Edit: Yeah, even a quick once-over of the basic wiki on crossbows doesn't say anything about it. So it was either something really unheard of or I got some wires crossed. Likely the case, I have a fair headache at the moment so my brain maybe just misfired, bleh

[Adjudicator79]

And you can create Soul Urns by placing the baked urns into a hopper with a soulsand filter, then dropping ground nettherack on it (you still get the hellfire dust). 4 Ground netherack to one Soul Urn, i believe.

This didn't work for me. I'm not sure what you mean by "place the baked urn into a hopper" - if it's powered, it just spits the baked urn right out. If it's unpowered, tossing ground netherack into the soulsand filter just gives me hellfire dust.

Any guidance from anyone on how to do this? Am I missing an obvious step?

Edit: Nevermind. Got it working. Don't pause to remove the soulsand like you would normally do to prevent a ghast explosion.

[KriiEiter]

And could be reloaded as quickly as a Bowman could fire if placed in the hands of a skilled bolter. Many very early lever-action and ammo-feed systems were inspired but some of the more complex Crossbow models that pioneered easier lever-cocking and bolt clips. The Crossbow was the weapon of choice for personal and home defence for a very long time (Thieves and beasts generally didn't wear armor).

~The More You Know~

I'd need to see references to believe the above about reload speed man. I certainly don't claim to be a crossbow expert (I don't think I've ever even fired one), but every source I've seen clearly states that crossbows are far slower to reload.

As for home defense, I can see that being the case given both what is said above about not requiring as much training, given that it was probably easier to wield them in close quarters due to their size (same as why a handgun or SMG is better in close quarters), and given that they could be loaded and remain cocked for the first shot in advance.

Yes they can be loaded in advance (My father owns a crossbow, for being disabled and uses it to deer hunt). They are by far slower to reload than a composite bow, but the fact that you can preload them is a big plus.

They travel much faster and straighter than any arrow could be fired, I guess if you could preload them ingame it might be a little more useful as well?

[FlowerChild]

They travel much faster and straighter than any arrow could be fired, I guess if you could preload them ingame it might be a little more useful as well?

Yeah, I was thinking of that, the problem is with the way the Minecraft inventory system would work in conjunction with this. Theoretically, you could preload an entire hot-bar full of them and fire them off in quick succession. That would definitely be a fairly lame way to die in SMP :)

[Thalmane]

Repeating crossbow

A repeating crossbow is a crossbow where the separate actions of stringing the bow, placing the bolt and shooting it can be accomplished with a simple one-handed movement while keeping the crossbow stationary. This allows a higher rate of fire than a normal crossbow. More complex ancient designs worked with a chain drive instead: there is a magazine containing a number of bolts on top of the bow, and the mechanism is worked by moving a rectangular lever forward and backward.

That would cover the reload speed. Only issue is the fact that it would probably require new bits of technology and a new recipe to make it :(

[MagusUnion]

Repeating crossbow

A repeating crossbow is a crossbow where the separate actions of stringing the bow, placing the bolt and shooting it can be accomplished with a simple one-handed movement while keeping the crossbow stationary. This allows a higher rate of fire than a normal crossbow. More complex ancient designs worked with a chain drive instead: there is a magazine containing a number of bolts on top of the bow, and the mechanism is worked by moving a rectangular lever forward and backward.

That would cover the reload speed. Only issue is the fact that it would probably require new bits of technology and a new recipe to make it :(

Tier it out possibly so that the bow 'levels' become: {Bow -> Composite Bow (Long Bow?) -> Crossbow -> Repeating Crossbow} (?)

Which, now that you mention it, there are no 'tiers' to bows in Minecraft beyond the current two.. lol

[Thalmane]

Sadly we are moving away from the topic and exploring a new style of ranged weapon. I was just trying to bring up an alternative option for the bow that doesn't involve changing the base classes.

[FlowerChild]

Sadly we are moving away from the topic and exploring a new style of ranged weapon. I was just trying to bring up an alternative option for the bow that doesn't involve changing the base classes.

Soon as I implement the B52 + Napalm, all such discussions will be irrelevant anyways.

[Kwilt]

Sadly we are moving away from the topic and exploring a new style of ranged weapon. I was just trying to bring up an alternative option for the bow that doesn't involve changing the base classes.

Soon as I implement the B52 + Napalm, all such discussions will be irrelevant anyways.

"Bomber One, this is Mother Hen. Creeper at coordinates 76, 52, -56. Do you copy?"

"Mother Hen, this is Bomber One, over. Preparing for firebombing."

There's no kill like overkill, I've gotta say. Though, that would be an interesting way to build a mob trap.

[Thalmane]

Soon as I implement the B52 + Napalm, all such discussions will be irrelevant anyways.

Why does that make me think of a randomized event like a goblin invasion...

[FlowerChild]

Why does that make me think of a randomized event like a goblin invasion...

Oooo...I like it. I can generate random events like "Mosanto discovers agent orange", then followed by "Single Generation Wheat", which not only would solve the problem of it being far too easy to farm, but you could also sell it to villagers to make them totally dependent on you not to starve to death! Brilliant!

[Thalmane]

Ooo...I like it. I can generate random events like "Mosanto discovers agent orange", then followed by "Single Generation Wheat", which not only would solve the problem of it being far too easy to farm, but you could also sell it to villagers to make them totally dependent on you not to starve to death! Brilliant!

Nah I dint think that would work. The villagers would revolt because of the high price of single generation wheat. The wheat would actually get burnt up in a massive fire the I set off as I laugh maniacally. By the end of it all it'd probably have the worst few hours of life non existent life.

[FlowerChild]

Nah I dint think that would work. The villagers would revolt because of the high price of single generation wheat. The wheat would actually get burnt up in a massive fire the I set off as I laugh maniacally. By the end of it all it'd probably have the worst few hours of life non existent life.

That's because you forgot to develop the privatized prison and police-force techs. Silly dictator.

It was on some History channel show..

Just wanted to mention that I saw a show on how hell is located at the center of the earth today on the History channel.

As I am fond of saying: I don't think that word means what they think it does :)

[Mrchaim]

You're a sick and twisted man, Flowerchild.

I approve.

Back on track: I must admit, i was going to suggest the crossbow idea myself. I can ceartinly see the argument against it though - with 1.9, the only things that'll really be a "challenge" to fight are are Endermen (4 diamond sword swings, capable of teleporting to dodge arrows), and hopefully whatever the hell the Ender-Dragons are.

I do want to bring up one thing though: As incredibly powerful as Block Dispensers are, they currently feel in a very werid place in the mod - I like that they're built into the tech tree now, but the sheer randomness of uncovering a dungeon makes them... frustrating, to say the least. In my current world? I uncovered 3 dungeons, all within easy range of my base. Checking with MCedit, they're really not uncommon in this world.

Contrast that with my previous world, where i would have had to have traveled several hundred blocks to find one, and you can see where my frustrations might be.

Basically, I'd wonder what your thoughts on adding a way to create mossy-cobble stone or an alternate substance you could use to create block dispensers - Not something easy to create, mind - Mossy Cobblestone should still be the go-to resource, but something that dosent rely on pure luck to find would be very useful.

(Apologies if this is the wrong place to bring it up, but it seemed relevant given the patch notes).

That said, I'm thoroughly enjoying the updated tech-tree - I'm yet to reach Soulforged Steel, but I'm not far off yet, being about to start producing condensed hellfire en-mass (Slime-Pits really do help accelerate the tech development)

[Thalmane]

No no no you got it all wrong. My goons and prison were just fine and dandy. I made one little mistake. I wasn't culling the herd. I let the little rats multiply until there was 20 villagers to every goon. Sadly they realized this befor I could fix the situation. One moment I'm sitting high on my throne, the next gun fire in the streets, burning wheat, and BAM! Im crucified.

[FlowerChild]

You're a sick and twisted man, Flowerchild.

Thanks :)

Contrast that with my previous world, where i would have had to have traveled several hundred blocks to find one, and you can see where my frustrations might be.

Basically, I'd wonder what your thoughts on adding a way to create mossy-cobble stone or an alternate substance you could use to create block dispensers - Not something easy to create, mind - Mossy Cobblestone should still be the go-to resource, but something that dosent rely on pure luck to find would be very useful.

Well, 2 thoughts on that. First, pretty much every resource in Minecraft is random. The more rare the resource is, the more apparent that becomes, but technically (as far as I know anyways), you could also get extremely unlucky and say never be able to find coal in a world.

So basically, ANYTHING in the mod that is dependent on rare resources can run into trouble like this in a particular seed, from wolves, to lapis, to mossy cobble. Sometimes you'll have tons of one, and sometimes none of another.

Of course, the more random factors the mod is dependent upon, the more likely this is to balance out in the long run. You'll have a bitch of a time finding wolves, but have plentiful lapis, or whatever, whereas on another play through, you'll have the opposite situation.

Now, I'm not willing to rule rare resources out of the mod completely. I think they're an important part of what makes the tech-progression interesting and a part of what also encourages exploration of the world around you.

But yeah, onto the 2nd point, I have actually been considering options for farming mossy cobble in some way as I do realize it is a particular nuisance to track down.

My thought on it is that having to do these kinds of things is the most fun the first time that you have to do it in a world, but that once you have, the player shouldn't necessarily be limited in how many of a particular item they should be able to produce. This is kinda the way wolves work right now (ignoring the temporary thing I just did for wood and tanning for a moment). Once you find a couple, there's no need to continue searching as you have a continuing source of dung. It's almost like you've discovered the "dung tech" and you're done with it.

I'm thinking I'd like the mossy cobble to work in a similar fashion. You'd still be required to track down that first dungeon, but once you did, you'd be able to farm the cobble to your heart's content. Anyways, as I said, it's something I've been considering as well, so it'll likely be coming to the mod in the next few versions.

No no no you got it all wrong. My goons and prison were just fine and dandy. I made one little mistake. I wasn't culling the herd. I let the little rats multiply until there was 20 villagers to every goon. Sadly they realized this befor I could fix the situation. One moment I'm sitting high on my throne, the next gun fire in the streets, burning wheat, and BAM! Im crucified.

See, this is where you went wrong though. You shouldn't be thinking of them as "your" goons and trying to micro-manage them. By turning them over to the private sector, you let the law of supply and demand take care of the whole problem for you. The privatized prisons obviously want to make more money by throwing as much of the populace in prison as possible thus causing them to increase the size of the police force to the maximum sustainable by the population, while their lobbyists will ensure that the police are enforcing ever more draconian laws keeping your people in a blissful state of maximum repression at all times.

Don't micromanage your dictatorship man. Just set things up so your populace subjugates itself, and it's all gravy.

[Magmarashi]

It was on some History channel show..

Just wanted to mention that I saw a show on how hell is located at the center of the earth today on the History channel.

As I am fond of saying: I don't think that word means what they think it does :)

This wasn't recently, I've stopped watching for this very reason

[Urian]

Also remember to isolate your population as much as possible. I recommend strictly regulating or entirely cutting off their communication possibilities with the rest of the world and what information about it they can access. By doing this, you can work on convincing them that they are in fact privileged since they have access to wheat while the rest of the world is starving. Keep this up for some time and your population will start regulating itself, keeping tabs on any dissidents who'd threaten their food supply and way of life.

[Thalmane]

Or I could take the American approach to it. Seduce the populace with mass media and begin a generational mind control. Distort the people values and have them focus more on something that really holds no value to their existence and convince them that said things brings them happiness. Just lock them in that loop of searching for happiness and I'm free to do whatever I want as long as I don't interupt their new perception.

[Kwilt]

As inspired by Recettear, I must say that I think BTW needs a new splash text:

"Dictatorship, ho!"