Technic Mod Pack

[Kwilt]

- BTW is not a mod that plays together well with other mods, due to its reliance on balance of vanilla items. If other mods up the availability of those items, BTW quickly becomes useless in parts, over-powered in others.
- KakerMix doesn't like BTW, doesn't like FC
- FC is against mod packs

Can anyone give me the reason why BTW is in Technic Pack again?

Now this is only an opinion, but what is spite, Alex?

Either way, I'm not against the Better than Better than Wolves Modpack, as long as it settles all this trouble.

[MagusUnion]

Money talks, people who need money listen. I can't begrudge someone for listening to their income, and to the people that provide it. Customers are Customers. Which one do you listen to the most, the customers that leave a full tip or the ones that say you should be happy to get those pennies they left? Life is tough, and pride can be very costly.

I would like to think that people who need money don't become so desperate as to accept it from anywhere. Since I've grown up looking at all my choices with always having strings attached, it's fairly easy for me to see a hidden agenda when someone offers 'donations' to a cause. There is no free lunch, and there is no true, selfless handouts given by anyone. People are only generous because A. They expect you to act a certain way after said donation is given, or B. They want to feel better about the situation by throwing said handout at a person/thing/cause (be it a homeless person, talented student, or otherwise) in the hopes that changes how they feel about it...

Next we're probably going to see is 'standardized' mod packs made by the Swarm: only accepting mods that they 'feel' is worth it to play. Hopefully that won't stop individual download links of game files, but I would rather not have to go thru the effort of ripping apart mod packs JUST to get that one mod I want. Quite frankly I don't like the idea of other people saying what mods I should/shouldn't play, and I know thru the goons that's exactly what will happen due to how they've morphed other online communities thru their misinformation and deceptions to said playerbase's...


But whatever. Not like any of you will listen. I stopped laughing at being right after many of my predictions came true years ago because of how sad things have gotten in result, and I'm hoping I'm wrong about what may happen. But still, I won't be surprised if I'm right. It'll just mean I'll have one less game to enjoy...


Edit: As long as Goons don't start assimilating people from minecraft into their ranks, then I'll chill...

[Fracture]

I do find it a tad bit queer, however, that you seem to be the only one any of them has a beef with, Flower. I guess some people just don't get along.

Near as I see it-- the others that were wronged here tend to be a bit more lenient, whereas FC is firm on his stance. I suspect it's partly a matter of pride, and in part a matter of retaliation, and possibly even a bit of because it's the SA forums. Is it the right stance? That's neither here nor there-- anything that could be done would have both pros and cons. Nonetheless, it was his choice to make and his alone-- if he decided not to placate the spiteful selfish prat who tried to make a half-assed peace gift after effectively spitting in the faces of the mod makers, I can't say I'd criticize him for it.

[Kwilt]

I do find it a tad bit queer, however, that you seem to be the only one any of them has a beef with, Flower. I guess some people just don't get along.

Near as I see it-- the others that were wronged here tend to be a bit more lenient, whereas FC is firm on his stance. I suspect it's partly a matter of pride, and in part a matter of retaliation, and possibly even a bit of because it's the SA forums. Is it the right stance? That's neither here nor there-- anything that could be done would have both pros and cons. Nonetheless, it was his choice to make and his alone-- if he decided not to placate the spiteful selfish prat who tried to make a half-assed peace gift after effectively spitting in the faces of the mod makers, I can't say I'd criticize him for it.

Well, the whole community seemed to be the ones having problems with him, not just Kaker. Maybe the problem here lies in the fact that FC is the only one who isn't making a cent off of this, and that's why they can't donate at all. So then they just bash the mod for being in the modpack against its will to... uh... well, I'm not sure what they're accomplishing doing that other than making Kaker look like a fool for including the mod in the modpack.

Either way, I stand by FC's decision as well. A large portion of the mod is his own work, and he should at least have the courtesy of controlling where those parts of the mod go. If he can't even have that, then balls all to the idea of the mod existing in the first place, I say.

[Triskelli]

Can anyone give me the reason why BTW is in Technic Pack again?

Windmills and water-wheels, really. They're cool, they move, and they're pretty.

But I think part of the hate comes from the following:

1.) Flowerchild is very vocal and resolute about his own beliefs and philosophy. If someone doesn't agree with his opinions, then FC isn't going to change them to make that person happier.

2.) Better Than Wolves's design philosophy can be easily misinterpreted as a statement of superiority. Also, a lot of people like wolves, and don't want to shut them up in a dank, dark hole.

3.) BTW is fairly different in both style and tone when compared to the other mods included in the pack. Equivalent Exchange, Buildcraft, Industrialcraft, and Redpower all focus on very specific aspects of Minecraft and improve them radically. Better than Wolves on the other hand is a general-purpose upgrade to the philosophy and design of vMC, and is further from completing its stated goals than the other mods.

The others add functionality, then balance. FC balances, then adds functionality. Why else wouldn't we have the lens block yet? =]

4.) For better or for worse, we're the community that showed up on the SA forums first after the incident. That made us the immediate target.


So yeah, a number of reasons for the FC-hate.

[Nobody Important]

Modpacks appeal to some players because the barrier to entry of installing and configuring multiple mods is too high for them.

When a modder refuses to allow their work to be included in any packs, it is frustrating to those players because they consider the possible reasons for that refusal to be trivial; in their view, either the modder feels self-entitled to advertising revenue that they have no right to (because hey, if the users appreciate the mod enough they will voluntarily donate, and if the mod was good enough the modder would be able to sell it outright), or the modder is preventing them from playing for no reason other than his own ego.

I blame this situation not on anyone's sense of self-entitlement, but on Mojang's failure to encourage a stable client-side API. You don't see this sort of drama in the CraftBukkit community, because installing/uninstalling CraftBukkit mods is trivial.

I don't think anyone in that thread "hates" FC, its just that some people are frustrated for the above reasons, while others think his (over-)reaction is amusing. Trolls gonna troll, and I would be disappointed if BTW was discontinued over it.

I also don't think FC is being singled-out; some people also deride Alblaka for his talk about implementing hard-coded bans in IndustrialCraft, and SpaceToad for selling the BuildCraft manual instead of putting it up for free.

I think BTW is in the Technic Pack because while it is (intentionally) not as "powerful" as the other mods involved, it is still an engineering mod, and that is Technic's theme. Also KakerMix is a troll.

[Alexia]

Personally I love the idea of mod packs, but the problem with them I see and can understand from the individual modder's point of view, is that their work kinda gets lost in the whole and most importantly the ones getting 90% of the credit from it all is the one who compiled it and may not have even contributed to it at all other than putting it together....who then use tactics like ad.fy and/or other revenue streams such premium memberships to make money from other's work.

It reminds me a little of when Sims 1 and 2 was big and ppl would create content for it. Started out nice and free, but mostly became about money grubbing, when two thirds of all creations required memberships or premium compulsory donations.

Demanding money from ppl , hidden or otherwise, from something which does not really belong to you, (electronic arts or mojang being the owners in this example) is a no-no in my book. I don't mind a voluntary donations scheme, but not when it is demanded before you can get the content. Different ofc if you own the original property, i.e the game itself.

Basically in that respect it's like saying, pay me to get this thing, so I can make money from something which isn't really even mine. Just my personal opinion ofc, other's may not agree with me but that's fine, each to their own.

Back to mod packs in general though, it would be nice if there was some sort of basic rules set which required, both permissions from authors, and an agreement that no monies can be made from them. Problem is, such rules seem unenforceable.

[Gilberreke]

Modpacks appeal to some players because the barrier to entry of installing and configuring multiple mods is too high for them.

I never got this. Download MCPatcher, click the plus sign, add mod zip to the list. Done

It's not like it's hard to do and almost everyone has the patcher lying around for HD textures anyway

[Stormweaver]

to be honest, a built-in patcher (made by mojang) would be one of the best things they could do for the modding community, beyond releasing the source code. While the HD patcher does exist atm, a lot of people either don't use HD textures, or don't realise it can actually patch mods in. I know I didn't know till the whole forge vs HD textures issue.

[FlowerChild]

Just wanted to mention how much I'm enjoying the SA guys go on about "take that FlowerChild!" in that I haven't been the beneficiary of their recent bribery attempts to other mod authors, when I DON'T EVEN ACCEPT DONATIONS!

Lol! Too stupid man. These guys are a riot :)

[Brethern]

to be honest, a built-in patcher (made by mojang) would be one of the best things they could do for the modding community, beyond releasing the source code. While the HD patcher does exist atm, a lot of people either don't use HD textures, or don't realise it can actually patch mods in. I know I didn't know till the whole forge vs HD textures issue.

Wait what? Care to elaborate into the HDpatcher thing?

[Katalliaan]

Brethern - there's plus and minus buttons right above the "patch" button in the patcher. You can choose mods to be added there, and they'll be added to the list, installing from the top down.

[Kwilt]

Just wanted to mention how much I'm enjoying the SA guys go on about "take that FlowerChild!" in that I haven't been the beneficiary of their recent bribery attempts to other mod authors, when I DON'T EVEN ACCEPT DONATIONS!

Lol! Too stupid man. These guys are a riot :)

Query: Does that count as an unsuccessful troll?

[Xetian]

Money talks, people who need money listen. I can't begrudge someone for listening to their income, and to the people that provide it. Customers are Customers. Which one do you listen to the most, the customers that leave a full tip or the ones that say you should be happy to get those pennies they left? Life is tough, and pride can be very costly.

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I don't know who said it earlier, but I agree that your refusal to just use a period is distracting.

Also, if you honestly don't think people ever donate to a cause or product without expecting something tailored for them in return, it says a lot about your world view. Similar to the way that most decent people will buy an album that they liked after pirating it, most people with any form of income will try to throw a couple bucks at things they like. When you're working with creative works (like art and code), the value of your product is based directly on how much someone enjoys it. Besides, how many stupid assholes do you know with the spare money, even banded together in a swarm, to negatively influence a modder's direction?

You're confusing motives. Of course donors expect something when they give someone money. Normally, they expect that person to keep doing what they're doing *except in the case of politics*. What we have here is a collection of generally normal people who have been done a large favor by a douchebag. That doesn't alter his right to do it, nor his effectiveness when he did. To try to regain face, he, and some other goons, donated to the modders who were slighted and would accept it to ensure no bad blood.

tldr; Stop being paranoid and go make some damn automated structures!

[FlowerChild]

Query: Does that count as an unsuccessful troll?

Reverse troll actually. If their intent was to piss me off, they only managed to make me smile and make themselves look stupid :)

Their thread is rife with this kind of misinformed idiocy. Like the guy going on about how much I must make from Youtube. I guess they all assume that I must be making money off this somehow when I haven't made a dime at any point, and as far as I know, when I am the only modder they've stolen from here who is immune to their bribery attempts. With their seeming aversion to ad revenue and modders earning from their work, I should be their god-damned hero.

I can't even take their insults seriously, as I've yet to see one that amounts to anything more than "FlowerChild sucks!", with zero justification for why they formed that opinion. The more I read that thread the more I'm getting a laugh out of it.

[Kwilt]

Query: Does that count as an unsuccessful troll?

Reverse troll actually. If their intent was to piss me off, they only managed to make me smile and make themselves look stupid :)

Their thread is rife with this kind of misinformed idiocy. Like the guy going on about how much I must make from Youtube. I guess they all assume that I must be making money off this somehow when I haven't made a dime at any point, and as far as I know, when I am the only modder they've stolen from here who is immune to their bribery attempts. With their seeming aversion to ad revenue and modders earning from their work, I should be their god-damned hero.

I can't even take their insults seriously, as I've yet to see one that amounts to anything more than "FlowerChild sucks!", with zero justification for why they formed that opinion. The more I read that thread the more I'm getting a laugh out of it.

Funny thing about the revenue, that is. I wonder if that'll keep up, since Kaker literally just blew that up with acknowledgment that you don't make money off of it not even five minutes ago.

I also find it funny that people have had ideas of making mods with similar blocks to yours, and yet BTW is such a shitstain on the modding community in their eyes. I guess they think they can do better.

[MrBanana]

i love how cool you are in this situation and how many people believe you make money when your just making this awesome mod for people to enjoy.some people find anything to criticise you and not the constructive type

[MagusUnion]

snip... snip... snip...

I don't know who said it earlier, but I agree that your refusal to just use a period is distracting.

tldr; Stop being paranoid and go make some damn automated structures!

I do it to invoke thought, which I know is mostly a foreign concept online, but I still believe that critical thinking is one of the most important skills you should use/learn as an adult in any situation...

But still, my paranoia about Goonswarn wouldn't be as strong as it is if I didn't know about your terrible track record. Between deceiving an entire MMO community with mis-information on elitist jerks, to straight up scam-recruitment policies on EvE, as well as the incidents of grieving all over Second Life, you can't exactly blame a person for being paranoid when the word 'Goonswarm' is used in a sentence. Which is also why I'm extremely concerned about what end's you will go to for 'influencing' future mod development that you involve yourselves with via bribing and 'unauthorized' distribution. Hell, the only reason I don't support the pack is because 1. it was made by a goon, and 2. he was very disrespectful to said mod developers. I know he made some efforts to apologize for 2., but it's still Goonswarm, and I know your 'charity' does not last forever...

Plus, paranoid doesn't go away overnight. It also doesn't help that I know a goon irl anyway, and watched the transformation firsthand pre-goon to post-goon of his attitudes. Prejudiced, I know, but I know what happens to people who become members overtime. Granted, I know you are all different and have your own personalities, but there's a reason you're called a Swarm. Each of your members do have a hive-mind disposition about yourselves in believe and philosophy, and I can see it in all of the actions of your members. Which is why I still worry about this issue even now...

Because I worry about what and where the eye of your Swarm will set its sights on next...

[Triskelli]

Whelp, it was bound to happen. I got put on probation for one of my posts in that thread.

Here's the offending post in question:

LunarTaffy posted:
Keep in mind that you're a goon too, now!

Whelp, you got me there.

Sheesh, it's hard walking that fine line between cooperation and condemnation. I want to try and make this all right, to understand where y'all are coming from and to try and make my side of the argument understood.

Man, this is a task for Ghandi, not some punk like me.

And here's the warning I recieved:

Perhaps you should lurk our site more and see how you making a big deal about this stupid crap kind of runs against the entire vein of our site? A good start! User loses posting privileges for 1 day.

Can't say I wasn't expecting it, but I'm surprised that they chose that post in particular.

[FlowerChild]

Can't say I wasn't expecting it, but I'm surprised that they chose that post in particular.

Wow man. I find that rather off considering the amount of restraint you've exercised.

[Battlecat]

@Triskelli: You've been incredibly patient during your conversations over there. I certainly wouldn't even want to speak up in those forums, let along pay 10$ for the "privilege".

The term mob justice comes to me when thinking about those forums. Everyone there believes FC is the bad guy and it seems the vocal consensus is they are not in the wrong. Which of course makes you the bad guy by proxy, especially if you're making logical retorts to their trolling. I guess they figure it'll die down if you're muted for a day. It amuses me that trying to speak politely and generate a line of cooperative communication goes against the vein of their entire site. I guess it's easier to keep a swarm going if you craft an evil enemy. *

@Flowerchild: Glad to hear you're finding the situation amusing now. Gotta keep that humor up so you can think of amusing new ways to processes our Canine friends.

Man, that comment I just made really brought George Orwell's 1984 into mind again. Craft an enemy for people to hate and a concept for people to love and you can control mob behavior. Make sure you quell all discordant views though!

[FlowerChild]

@Flowerchild: Glad to hear you're finding the situation amusing now. Gotta keep that humor up so you can think of amusing new ways to processes our Canine friends.

Well, the only thing I ever really (temporarily) flipped out about here was the Yogscast publicity given to this mod-pack, not the mod-pack itself.

This thing was actually reported on these forums before the first Yogscast vid, and I had chosen to ignore it. What I was upset about was the potential for another incident along the lines of the Yogaboo invasion a few months ago. THAT was what had me initially wondering about whether I wanted to even continue with the mod. At the same time though, the potential for damage from such an incident has been extremely limited given that we now have these forums (which we didn't back then). It was just my immediate emotional reaction to another epic wave of bullshit descending upon the mod.

Anyways, it doesn't even sound like BTW will continue to be part of that modpack, so whatever man. If the other mod-authors are fine with it, more power to them. The biggest dicks in all of this are the Yogscast crew for obviously intending to instigate a shit-storm with all this.

[Magmarashi]

The term mob justice comes to me when thinking about those forums. Everyone there believes FC is the bad guy and it seems the vocal consensus is they are not in the wrong. Which of course makes you the bad guy by proxy, especially if you're making logical retorts to their trolling. I guess they figure it'll die down if you're muted for a day. It amuses me that trying to speak politely and generate a line of cooperative communication goes against the vein of their entire site. I guess it's easier to keep a swarm going if you craft an evil enemy. *

I can assure you the 20-30 people who actively post and follow in that Single Thread is not indicative of the entireity of the SA Forums as a whole, and that mindset was likely the motivating facotr in the suspension that followed. They did pick a weird post to latch it on to, but Mods move in mysterious and vague ways no matter where you go.

Just as you guys get people showing up here and in the MCF thread, painting each and every one of you an asshole for one little incident or expressed opinion, they too get tired to tears of people from outside SA coming in to mope and moan and yell and tirade as well that they are all terrible because of a small few of them. Yeah, he wasn't really putting up a huge fuss, but they don't really like putting up with any fuss at all if they can help it.

Oh, and it is important to note that most goon-driven invasions and rushes and such aren't planned and publicized on the forums because that is a real quick way to lose 10 bucks.

[Xetian]

snip... snip... snip...

I don't know who said it earlier, but I agree that your refusal to just use a period is distracting.

tldr; Stop being paranoid and go make some damn automated structures!

I do it to invoke thought, which I know is mostly a foreign concept online, but I still believe that critical thinking is one of the most important skills you should use/learn as an adult in any situation...

But still, my paranoia about Goonswarn wouldn't be as strong as it is if I didn't know about your terrible track record. Between deceiving an entire MMO community with mis-information on elitist jerks, to straight up scam-recruitment policies on EvE, as well as the incidents of grieving all over Second Life, you can't exactly blame a person for being paranoid when the word 'Goonswarm' is used in a sentence. Which is also why I'm extremely concerned about what end's you will go to for 'influencing' future mod development that you involve yourselves with via bribing and 'unauthorized' distribution. Hell, the only reason I don't support the pack is because 1. it was made by a goon, and 2. he was very disrespectful to said mod developers. I know he made some efforts to apologize for 2., but it's still Goonswarm, and I know your 'charity' does not last forever...

Plus, paranoid doesn't go away overnight. It also doesn't help that I know a goon irl anyway, and watched the transformation firsthand pre-goon to post-goon of his attitudes. Prejudiced, I know, but I know what happens to people who become members overtime. Granted, I know you are all different and have your own personalities, but there's a reason you're called a Swarm. Each of your members do have a hive-mind disposition about yourselves in believe and philosophy, and I can see it in all of the actions of your members. Which is why I still worry about this issue even now...

Because I worry about what and where the eye of your Swarm will set its sights on next...

Not a goon, don't know why you're referring to it as my swarm. Point stands that they aren't going to do anything but continue to badmouth FC.

Ontopic: Why does the internet spend so much time hating on "Randroids"?

EDIT: I'd like to think I'm obviously not a goon as I've been here since the second day of operation.

[Beemlord]

I'm pretty surprised we're still talking about this. I think it's time we all stfu, SA peeps included, and just go back to playing the game we all love.