Technic Mod Pack

[FlowerChild]

Creating this new topic as a centralized area for the ongoing discussion about this illegal mod-pack and the Yogscast video series on it. The previous thread became completely derailed overnight, so creating this one as a replacement to avoid having the discussion spill over into other threads:

Triskelli, would love to know what this bit over on the SA forums about my code being "sloppier" than Eloraam or Spactoad is about.

I find it rather strange you'd say something like that, and would like to hear what's behind it.

[BinoAl]

Ah, good, another topic on this. I had been meaning to get my feelings on this out. While the people commenting on the youtube video clearly were hardly even human, let alone smart enough to make a coherent argument, I do see the other side of the argument. It definitely violates the copyright on the mod to include it in a modpack, and clearly goes against what you told to the yogscast guys about your feelings on modpacks. However, KakerMix didn't mean for it to get that big. It might have been covered under personal use, at least at first. His refusal to take it down and his blatant disrespect in the readme is just too much, though. It clearly isn't for him and a small group of users anymore, and needs to be removed.

[Brethern]

I said I was done with this issue since things were getting out of hand and people were acting butthurt but hopefully this topic won't get that way.

I'm not going to say I'm against what KakerMix did, I am however never going to condone how he's acting. He created a mod pack to help SA users. That's fine Lewis probably saw it and though hey here's a good way I can get back at the modders who denyed us permission to use their mods in the yogbox. The yogscast has almost 1/3 of minecraft fans subscribed to them so they knew exactly what they were doing.

My suggestion is this, forget about it and boycott the yogscast don't click on any of their video's don't go to their website don't acknowledge them in any way.

[Kwilt]

I just want an answer as to what the hell adf.ly has to do with anything. I've seen it been brought up about three times as the reason the modders were pissed about this, and yet, not all the modders (yourself included, Flower) use the service. So how the hell is that even a factor in this all?

Another thing that has bugged me is that there has been repeated mention that the Better Than Wolves mod is pretty much rubbish in comparison to the other mods in the pack. So, clearly, the community doesn't care for it to be in the mod pack. Wouldn't it be best to agree with the community and just remove it, rather than everybody getting butthurt because a mod designed to be used stand-alone is included in a mod pack? I mean, one of the major reasonings for the mod pack in the first place is to make it easier and funner to use these mods for the community. Wouldn't you want to remedy that if it's not making the community happy?

[BinoAl]

The reason ad.fly keeps coming up is because some of the modders do use it. However, they're making the erroneous assumption that FC uses it, and calling him selfish and dumb crap like that for wanting to give up his "ad.fly money". It's actually kinda funny :3

[Sajuuk]

The right and wrong seems crystal clear here.
To me it's just a wide spectrum of how much people believe in rule of law.
I'm going to only say that, and leave it up to people to think on it (or not).

[Kwilt]

The reason ad.fly keeps coming up is because some of the modders do use it. However, they're making the erroneous assumption that FC uses it, and calling him selfish and dumb crap like that for wanting to give up his "ad.fly money". It's actually kinda funny :3

So pretty much, they're just making themselves look ignorant by making false claims?

[Brethern]

I just want an answer as to what the hell adf.ly has to do with anything. I've seen it been brought up about three times as the reason the modders were pissed about this, and yet, not all the modders (yourself included, Flower) use the service. So how the hell is that even a factor in this all?

Another thing that has bugged me is that there has been repeated mention that the Better Than Wolves mod is pretty much rubbish in comparison to the other mods in the pack. So, clearly, the community doesn't care for it to be in the mod pack. Wouldn't it be best to agree with the community and just remove it, rather than everybody getting butthurt because a mod designed to be used stand-alone is included in a mod pack? I mean, one of the major reasonings for the mod pack in the first place is to make it easier and funner to use these mods for the community. Wouldn't you want to remedy that if it's not making the community happy?

BTW is in the pack because it's a big mod allot enjoy it.

Now it's staying because of Ad hominem.

[Demonwolf002]

Alright I'm going to throw this out there. I get why your mad at the guy from the SA forums. Mostly for the disrespect and the copyright blah blah etc etc. What I don't get is why is it that the yogscast get to sit back and laugh it up while they try to start an all out flame-war, and honestly you cant not see it but here is why I think this. One they have been threw this with you before and they knew your mod was apart of this mod-pack so first and foremost they shouldn't have endorsed it at all. Two you cant tell me oh they didn't know this guy didn't ask because he sates so in his read me. I could go on with other reasons but quiet honestly the first one is good enough. My honest opinion is that they knew exactly what they were doing and what could possibly come from it and In my opinion they need to retract their video and issue another one with an apology to the mod makers for even endorsing the mod pack. Honestly I know kakermix shouldn't have made the mod-pack but it was never meant to go outside of the SA forums. Quite honestly when you think about it their are possibly multiple other places that have done the same thing we just don't know about it yet. In short do I think Kaker is at fault yes I do, but I think the yogscast is at a much bigger fault for showcasing the video. I also think they knew full well what they were doing. Whats done is done though and now Kaker is going to use his new found publicity to make his opinions know and possibly try to take you down FC. honestly hes been given the spotlight and he's using it to rub your nose in it and laughing at about it
basically saying catch me if you can. while the IMHO guys who started this whole mess in the first place get to sit back and laugh at it all. Sorry for the long rant but I think your after the wrong people here (or person whatever).

[MagusUnion]

The reason ad.fly keeps coming up is because some of the modders do use it. However, they're making the erroneous assumption that FC uses it, and calling him selfish and dumb crap like that for wanting to give up his "ad.fly money". It's actually kinda funny :3

So pretty much, they're just making themselves look ignorant by making false claims?

How is this any different from normal, Goonswarm, actions?

[Demonwolf002]

About the adfly thing I agree with what BinoAl said, but it also seemed to me that a lot of the SA forums guys seem to think that they are virus and malware ridden, and you cant not get a virus by going to one. Just my opinion and what I took from some of the comments that were made.

[Triskelli]

Honestly FlowerChild, I can't make an opinion about your code either way. I haven't looked at it, and I only know a smattering about programming. I think most of the sentiment about your code comes from the fact that they're putting a standalone mod with a bunch of more specific mods, so some of the features seem redundant to them.

At this point I've given up trying to argue against them. They've set you up as a boogieman, and not amount of pleading from my side is going to change their minds. These two communities are now spiteful of each other.

(So yeah, I guess I didn't emphasize the word may enough. I think your code works brilliantly, and I've found no complaints so far.)

[Magmarashi]

About the adfly thing I agree with what BinoAl said, but it also seemed to me that a lot of the SA forums guys seem to think that they are virus and malware ridden, and you cant not get a virus by going to one. Just my opinion and what I took from some of the comments that were made.

Adfly itself? No, nothing wrong with that.

The Ads? I've had some visits trip my Antivirus and Malware before, and it's always good to be cautious.

To be quite honest, I don't think they really care as much. Yeah, they are talking about it, but it hasn't spawned multiple threads or anything. To them it is more of an amusement with the MC Modder Community reactions, and the more you react the more they are going to laugh about getting a rise out of someone. Best to just ignore them over at SA as a whole.

They sit around, talk about how you are all idiots and bad and they feel superior. You guys sit around, talk about how they're idiots and bad and you feel superior. It's a circle of a circle.

[Demonwolf002]

About the adfly thing I agree with what BinoAl said, but it also seemed to me that a lot of the SA forums guys seem to think that they are virus and malware ridden, and you cant not get a virus by going to one. Just my opinion and what I took from some of the comments that were made.

Adfly itself? No, nothing wrong with that.

The Ads? I've had some visits trip my Antivirus and Malware before, and it's always good to be cautious.

To be quite honest, I don't think they really care as much. Yeah, they are talking about it, but it hasn't spawned multiple threads or anything. To them it is more of an amusement with the MC Modder Community reactions, and the more you react the more they are going to laugh about getting a rise out of someone. Best to just ignore them over at SA as a whole.

Agreed

[duartemad]

Take a break from all electronics and then all hell breaks lose?! wow!
I never liked yogscast, and this made me hate them even more.
I wont comments on anything else as I was never that much into minecraft mods (very few exeptions)...

[Durandir]

I don't have any beef with the SA forums by themselves, I actually like them. I lurked there for a while when the first Marble Hornets "season" was going, reading all the crazy as shit theories and whatnot. But since it is a large forum, there are bound to be asshats there. Just as there will be here if this forum grew considerably in size.
And from what I have seen that topic is full of 'em. It astounds me how stupid most of them seem when it comes to this.

Anyway, one thing all of us here on this forum should remember: When users like "derpal" starts posting, as he did at the end of the last thread, take a good hard look at his posts. Does it seem like he is trying to make you angry? It sure does! Does it seem like he is trying to provoke you into saying something? Yep! It's pretty obvious all he was doing was just that. He was trolling us, and sadly we fed him. No amount of proof, arguments or sweet-talk would change what he thinks, he was just here to troll us and bait us into saying something he could use as ammo against us on SA. It is better to ignore people like this.

I also think this is a futile struggle, as these dicktits will just keep on doing this. Especially now that they see the reaction to it.
What I don't understand is why anyone would use all those mods at the same time anyway. Several of them are way overpowered, taking away all fun in trying to build and survive. Oh well. Fuck it.

[AmRadTheory]

I never liked yogscast, and this made me hate them even more.

Agreed... someone should tell them they are not Stephen Merchant and Ricky Gervais.

More on topic, this whole thing is maddening, there just seems to be too many loud children frantically typing away... drowning out the adults who actually have something intelligent to say. Who cares if modder x is cooler than modder y... if forum a is better than forum b? Why, defensive children of course!

I don't see how anyone could make a reasonable argument that the modpack dude is anything other than 100% in the wrong, and that it smells awfully intentional.

[Magmarashi]

What I don't understand is why anyone would use all those mods at the same time anyway. Several of them are way overpowered, taking away all fun in trying to build and survive. Oh well. Fuck it.

The mods are toggleable. Basically like the Data Files options on Beth Soft games, you can turn on and off any combination of mods at your desire without having to rearrange anything or deal with different .jars. It was the point of the whole thing when it was released in-house.

if forum a is better than forum b? Why, defensive children of course!

*cough nudge cough nudge* some people here have made the same assertion in the other direction so that might not be the sturdiest leg to stand on

[FlowerChild]

Honestly FlowerChild, I can't make an opinion about your code either way. I haven't looked at it, and I only know a smattering about programming. I think most of the sentiment about your code comes from the fact that they're putting a standalone mod with a bunch of more specific mods, so some of the features seem redundant to them.

At this point I've given up trying to argue against them. They've set you up as a boogieman, and not amount of pleading from my side is going to change their minds. These two communities are now spiteful of each other.

(So yeah, I guess I didn't emphasize the word may enough. I think your code works brilliantly, and I've found no complaints so far.)

Fair enough man. I got what they were saying about the mod being a useless part of the mod-pack given that it's way outclassed by the tech in the other mods present, and assumed that the "shoddy coding" bit was referring to the number of base-classes I modify (which actually has nothing to do with the quality of my code but rather with the specific kind of functionality I modify which can't be done any other way).

Anyways, when I saw you post something similar, I just wanted to try to get some insight into that perception. Thanks for the response.

[Durandir]

The mods are toggleable. Basically like the Data Files options on Beth Soft games, you can turn on and off any combination of mods at your desire without having to rearrange anything or deal with different .jars. It was the point of the whole thing when it was released in-house.

So the reason for the pack was more to make it easy to manage those mods, and to make them work together? Why not make a small program that can manage mods, and make compatibility patches or something instead? You know, actually create something that will work with all mods to help everyone use them, instead of taking mods against the wishes of the authors and slap them together in a pack.

Bah, this is to stupid to spend any more time on for me.

[AmRadTheory]

if forum a is better than forum b? Why, defensive children of course!

*cough nudge cough nudge* some people here have made the same assertion in the other direction so that might not be the sturdiest leg to stand on[/quote]

I hear you, the defensive children remark may be a bit harsh... I guess I'm just coming from the perspective that I don't really give a shit what SA or yogaboos or whoever has to say about FC or BTW. I know FC's a thoughtful, dedicated dude putting in a lot of work just to make MC more fun, and that I find this forum to be more constructive and useful than most others that I visit.

I guess my opinion of all the bashing and trolling just boils down to people feeling threatened, either intellectually because they don't understand the fundamental aspects of the actual problem in this situation, or in defense of their chosen "guru" be challenged by an unfamiliar perspective. I don't feel the need to defend FC for the simple reason that I'm confident he can look out for himself, and more than adequately.

I apologize if this seems muddled... I blame the reefer.

[Brethern]

Honestly FlowerChild, I can't make an opinion about your code either way. I haven't looked at it, and I only know a smattering about programming. I think most of the sentiment about your code comes from the fact that they're putting a standalone mod with a bunch of more specific mods, so some of the features seem redundant to them.

At this point I've given up trying to argue against them. They've set you up as a boogieman, and not amount of pleading from my side is going to change their minds. These two communities are now spiteful of each other.

(So yeah, I guess I didn't emphasize the word may enough. I think your code works brilliantly, and I've found no complaints so far.)

I don't have any spite towards SA, they are one of the few places that I can go to and not get a headache from the crap they spew.

There was a time when copyrights weren't necessary mod users were smart enough to get mods working themselves they searched the threads and got the info they need. That time has passed.

[Magmarashi]

The mods are toggleable. Basically like the Data Files options on Beth Soft games, you can turn on and off any combination of mods at your desire without having to rearrange anything or deal with different .jars. It was the point of the whole thing when it was released in-house.

So the reason for the pack was more to make it easy to manage those mods, and to make them work together? Why not make a small program that can manage mods, and make compatibility patches or something instead? You know, actually create something that will work with all mods to help everyone use them, instead of taking mods against the wishes of the authors and slap them together in a pack.

Bah, this is to stupid to spend any more time on for me.

Because it was ONLY for the SA thread, and even then ONLY for people who really wanted that level of depth and customization. The guy said himself it was just a quick and dirty hashing together. If it hadn't been for Yogscast putting it out in the light, it wouldn't have been any different then if I had done the same thing and given it to my friends for just us to use. I can image it being something he hotwired for himself and thought "Hey, the guys in the SA Minecraft Modding thread like to use a lot of these mods on and off, I'll just let them use it to!".

Yeah, he doesn't like Flowerchild, yeah he is a dick about it too. Not everyone is going to like everyone else, and most of them are huge assholes about it for no reason whatsoever. It doesn't make them stupid or evil. Just Assholes. Life goes on~

[Triskelli]

No problem FC. At that point I was admitting defeat, and swallowed my pride a little bit as I left.

At this point the most we can do is ignore each other and deal with whatever fallout comes.

Though I admit that a little extra humility on each side would have helped smooth things out.


*EDIT*

Where was this two days ago? =<

[Kwilt]

Because it was ONLY for the SA thread, and even then ONLY for people who really wanted that level of depth and customization. The guy said himself it was just a quick and dirty hashing together. If it hadn't been for Yogscast putting it out in the light, it wouldn't have been any different then if I had done the same thing and given it to my friends for just us to use. I can image it being something he hotwired for himself and thought "Hey, the guys in the SA Minecraft Modding thread like to use a lot of these mods on and off, I'll just let them use it to!".

Yeah, he doesn't like Flowerchild, yeah he is a dick about it too. Not everyone is going to like everyone else, and most of them are huge assholes about it for no reason whatsoever. It doesn't make them stupid or evil. Just Assholes. Life goes on~

I can agree with this. I do remember FC saying something about just ignoring the one SA link. It had been there for quite a while, and he seemed a little bit mad, but nothing too harsh. Really, it does seem like it was something that was going to be small-time. And yeah, still breaking the rules, but FC seemed like he was going to let it slide.

I really don't want to blame the Yogscast here (I haven't seen what's coming, but if they don't post another part of the mod compilation videos, then hopefully they got the hint), so I'm not going to on a critical level. However, they should've known from past experience with at least what had happened with BTW, that this would happen. I couldn't even count the number of 'this should be in the YogBox' comments I saw last night, and of course it was going to happen.

All in all, Kaker is a bit of a twat for creating the modpack, the Yogscast are morons for promoting it, and Flowerchild... well, I guess he's just an idiot for making a mod optimized to be played stand-alone that just happened to get stuck in a mod pack. So there. Everybody is at fault.