tech tree and 1.8

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muggsbud
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tech tree and 1.8

Post by muggsbud »

you can read an interview with jeb here http://www.minecraftforum.net/news/192- ... -with-jeb/

for some reason after reading that interview i can't help but feel that flower's oh-so-carefully thought out tech tree will be totally butt f***'d by the 1.8 update. -not the mechanics of it-the balance is what I'm thinking about.
MCF: Recent screenshots appear to show a hunger bar and what may either be a stamina or XP bar - can you tell us a little bit about that?


Jeb: The food / hunger bar is refilled by eating (which takes 1.6 seconds). If you have 90 % food you will regain health slowly, but if you have 0 % you will lose health instead. The "stamina bar" is the XP bar and shows your progress to the next player level.
With the hearsay about animal farms and the availability of new food types i think it's going to get harder to find wild animals, and at the same time press a need to nurture them to a certain degree- i think the same may be applicable to plants.
MCF: There have been many questions regarding the future of Survival as it exists currently - will it exist in any form after 1.8?


Jeb: I don't think so.
between that quote and the emphasis being placed on exploration i keep thinking that building large superstructures will be much more difficult, as will complex factory type homes.


does this make anyone else think that btw may need totally redesigned after the update? maybe it will become much more difficult than it already is, and after the hump it's a game breaking thing. What do you think?
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Gilberreke
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Re: tech tree and 1.8

Post by Gilberreke »

I think that not much will change and that Flower will manage to rebalance the mod. Donuts, cauldron, etc, already play right into the hunger bar's cards and I suspect additional balancing will be all that's needed.

The extra emphasis on exploration might be a bother for Flower to handle though. With larger biomes, he might need to invest in some transportation blocks (train/minecart ideas?), since BTW is a mod that focuses more on home bases than exploration.
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Damion Rayne
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Re: tech tree and 1.8

Post by Damion Rayne »

Jeb re posted after that, that was a misunderstanding on his part. He meant that survival mode as we know it currently is changing a great deal in 1.8 so wont exist in it's current state afterword. Have faith in FC, he knows what he's doing.
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FlowerChild
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Re: tech tree and 1.8

Post by FlowerChild »

Yeah, I've been keeping a close eye on the upcoming 1.8 changes and have been mulling over ideas on how I will rebalance the mod to adapt to them.

Have no fear, I'm sure I'll manage to pull it off ;)
muggsbud
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Re: tech tree and 1.8

Post by muggsbud »

FlowerChild wrote:Yeah, I've been keeping a close eye on the upcoming 1.8 changes and have been mulling over ideas on how I will rebalance the mod to adapt to them.

Have no fear, I'm sure I'll manage to pull it off ;)
it's not fear, it's more like wasting time memorizing things now that will be reapranged afterwards.
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Damion Rayne
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Re: tech tree and 1.8

Post by Damion Rayne »

muggsbud wrote:
FlowerChild wrote:Yeah, I've been keeping a close eye on the upcoming 1.8 changes and have been mulling over ideas on how I will rebalance the mod to adapt to them.

Have no fear, I'm sure I'll manage to pull it off ;)
it's not fear, it's more like wasting time memorizing things now that will be reapranged afterwards.
He can't do anything about it now Mugg, he can only respond to what happens when 1.8 comes out. We all have to wait, that's just the way it works.
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Necropolis
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Re: tech tree and 1.8

Post by Necropolis »

Anyone else thinking that hunger is a terrible, terrible idea? I mean, I play games to escape mundanity. Why are my games always so eager to reintroduce it? If I play D&D, my dm doesn't harass me by asking when the last time I ate was. It's not fun to roleplay eating.
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Damion Rayne
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Re: tech tree and 1.8

Post by Damion Rayne »

Necropolis wrote:Anyone else thinking that hunger is a terrible, terrible idea? I mean, I play games to escape mundanity. Why are my games always so eager to reintroduce it? If I play D&D, my dm doesn't harass me by asking when the last time I ate was. It's not fun to roleplay eating.
It has been stated that hunger is optional. :)
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Stormweaver
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Re: tech tree and 1.8

Post by Stormweaver »

I like the idea of hunger tbh, although right now food is a touch easy to get. I imagine that come 1.8, at least vMC should be balanced for it, and I doubt simple balencing issues would overwhelm FC's awesomeness.

The things I'm worried about are smaller, but quite dangerous to the mod; we've seen ravines in the screenshots, what if notch decides to add rope to make exploring them more fun? Lets see, what would notch make rope from...string? And with one small action, while it is perfectly valid for vMC, Flower gets put in an awkward position where he either makes a 'new' kind of rope made from hemp exclusively for his recipes, or has to rethink the entirety of the tech tree to accommodate this sudden shortcut.

I'm probably wrong, but I think that some part of flower decided to make the latest updates a bit more...out of the box than normal (lets grind up some souls for our tools) to reduce the chance of his features getting swamped by potential vMC updates.
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FlowerChild
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Re: tech tree and 1.8

Post by FlowerChild »

Stormweaver wrote: I'm probably wrong, but I think that some part of flower decided to make the latest updates a bit more...out of the box than normal (lets grind up some souls for our tools) to reduce the chance of his features getting swamped by potential vMC updates.
Nah man, it had nothing to do with 1.8, but rather a series of reactions I had while playing the mod in combination with Buildcraft from start.

I didn't have access to slimes, so had to consider alternatives. At first I was thinking "well, I could just hand-crank my way up the tech-tree to get to glue".

Then thought "no, that's pretty frigging lame".

So, I decided to build a Wind Mill instead. While doing that, I realized the design considerations involved in doing so were pretty frigging cool in their own right, that hand-cranking enough hemp fibers really wasn't a big deal and only took a few minutes, and I began lamenting that the Wind Mill wasn't a necessary part of the tech tree.

Out of that came the decision both to prevent the Hand Crank from being used beyond a certain point in the tech-tree, and making the Wind Mill the first form of continuous mechanical power you have to build.

I had a similar reaction once I got to stoked fire. I wound up realizing the amount of time I had to spend in the nether to acquire enough Nethrrack to build my various fire-pits was trivial, which is a shame, because giving the Nether more value was one of the goals of the mod.

So, I began asking myself a long series of questions as to how I could make it more difficult to acquire the resources from the Nether necessary to get to Steel and the whole concentrated Netherrack idea came out of that. I also had some side-goals in that in terms of making the tech-tree more dependent upon other mod-blocks to encourage players to build their first one, which would hopefully lead to them experimenting with blocks they might not otherwise. Because of this, I decided to include the Hopper and Hibachi into the tech tree proper (which is something that I will likely do with other blocks as well in the future...requiring them to advance beyond a certain point).

As for the soul thing, that element has always been part of the mod to one degree or another, hence the screaming cement, and the old Soul-Boosters for Minecarts, so it's really not as much of a departure as might first appear.

Notch decided to include a hell-dimension in the game, and with all the little tormented faces everywhere, it's pretty apparent that the Nether itself is made out of souls. I think the rest of it flows fairly naturally from that, and the idea that Steve tries to use pretty much every single resource that he comes across to help him survive.

Admittedly, I've also found it kinda funny that Notch chickened-out at some point and decided to rename "Hell" to "Nether" to avoid pissing off the puritans, so I get a kick out of focusing in on that aspect in disturbing ways. As a modder I can get away with certain things I never could professionally, so I tend to have a lot of fun with that.

It may be slightly twisted (or massively so), but so are a lot of the other elements of the mod ;)
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FurkeyRefills
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Re: tech tree and 1.8

Post by FurkeyRefills »

All i can say in regards to the hunger meter is, I'm going to keep a stack of twelve donuts on me at all times ;D
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FlowerChild
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Re: tech tree and 1.8

Post by FlowerChild »

Oh, and BTW: I consider "Technological Progress Always Comes At a Price" to be a central theme to this mod (as well as it being an aspect of my own world-view...but that's another story).

As a result, I like to tie morally disturbing actions into key stages of technological progress so that the player is always left feeling slightly dirty when they make a stride forward.

The world of Minecraft may not have slaves with which to build our railways, or underdeveloped countries to exploit for resources, or civilian population centers upon which to test our weaponry, but I think certain analogues may be found just the same.
Haidaes
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Re: tech tree and 1.8

Post by Haidaes »

FlowerChild wrote:Oh, and BTW: I consider "Technological Progress Always Comes At a Price" to be a central theme to this mod (as well as it being an aspect of my own world-view...but that's another story).

As a result, I like to tie morally disturbing actions into key stages of technological progress so that the player is always left feeling slightly dirty when they make a stride forward.

The world of Minecraft may not have slaves with which to build our railways, or underdeveloped countries to exploit for resources, or civilian population centers upon which to test our weaponry, but I think certain analogues may be found just the same.
Now I wonder when Steve will start polluting the enviroment.. besides placing ugly ass cobblestone huts in it.
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Necropolis
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Re: tech tree and 1.8

Post by Necropolis »

I believe Notch is adding civilian population centers with which to test our weaponry. I know I will be.
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Triskelli
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Re: tech tree and 1.8

Post by Triskelli »

Makes me want to know when our factories and blocks make the grass nearby die off, and darken the skies with soot... and what other sinister ways the technology your technology will warp our worlds.

Honestly, I can't wait. =]
muggsbud
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Re: tech tree and 1.8

Post by muggsbud »

FlowerChild wrote: The world of Minecraft may not have slaves with which to build our railways, or underdeveloped countries to exploit for resources, or civilian population centers upon which to test our weaponry, but I think certain analogues may be found just the same.
not till 1.8 anyway...

are we going to see things like the wooden crank where slaves spin a large wheel?

BTW: i never meant to ask what you were planning, just to see a little forward thinking and everyone's opinions.
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emmasteadman
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Re: tech tree and 1.8

Post by emmasteadman »

Well here's hoping for a simple mod to remove hunger.
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Necropolis
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Re: tech tree and 1.8

Post by Necropolis »

Apparently it's going to be optional. Like maybe those hideous immersion breaking mushrooms. Seriously, there's a river running through a beautiful ravine, lots of trees and grass, and then a giant red and white thing that vaguely resembles a mushroom. Why, God, why?
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Stormweaver
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Re: tech tree and 1.8

Post by Stormweaver »

Necropolis wrote:Apparently it's going to be optional. Like maybe those hideous immersion breaking mushrooms. Seriously, there's a river running through a beautiful ravine, lots of trees and grass, and then a giant red and white thing that vaguely resembles a mushroom. Why, God, why?
Terraria.

Not that it could have influenced his other choices for 1.8 or anything; dungeons, NPCs, cooldown on healing items...pretty sure that's all notch originality ^.^
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