A question on FML support

[cpw]

I would like to enable FML to support loading Better Than Wolves. My concern is that I don't wish for there to become some kind of arms race between us. I just wish to allow a very popular mod, not to say one of my favourite original mods, to run on a platform that I myself built. I am hoping that you can understand my sentiment before I go ahead and do this.

- cpw

[duartemad]

Hm, I think Ill grab some popcorn :)

[Mason11987]

I would like to enable FML to support loading Better Than Wolves. My concern is that I don't wish for there to become some kind of arms race between us. I just wish to allow a very popular mod, not to say one of my favourite original mods, to run on a platform that I myself built. I am hoping that you can understand my sentiment before I go ahead and do this.

- cpw

Historically FC doesn't generally have an issue with people modifying their mods to work with BTW, there are BTW plug ins after all. He doesn't make extra work for himself in order to make other mods incompatible but he also doesn't care if it's incompatible with other mods, particularly forge, mostly because BTW is designed around being played by itself. This is quite clear to anyone who played BTW with other mods (like myself) when it was forge compatible, it just doesn't make sense.

That being said FC has also frequently stated it is completely inappropriate to modify or redistribute any of his code. If you have an intention to modify a particular mod or mod utility so that it works with BTW I don't think anyone would really care. Although I'm curious what possible benefit it could have with Forge not being compatible itself. Of course this is all based around the assumption that you will not redistribute any BTW Files. If you have no intention to do that I'd suggest you stress that sooner rather than later as plenty of people who "patch" BTW for Forge have been banned from these forums because they redistribute BTW code.

[cpw]

No code would be distributed that wasn't my own. I have asm patches that can 'fix' FML (and potentially forge as well) for btw support. To be honest, since I control the actual mod loading code itself, I can no doubt subvert any attempt to stop this. I would rather not, however. The reason I ask is because by doing this BTW will likely become forge compatible again, probably, and I know that goes against FCs wishes for his mod.
Hence I solicit opinions of this community. It will be some work - asm is not easy to build and I hope that FC won't take *active* steps to attempt to foil my efforts..
Finally, if FC does decide it would not be in his best interest for me to do this, I would respect that wish but would then refer future complaints about FML and BTW to this specific thread..

[Elevatator]

Well, shut up and get out troll.
If you would be the real "Insert important Forgemember name here", you would propably know why it is incompatible, that Fc was even one of the Forge founders (Afaik), and that he left it for reasons far behind the dislike of some persons.
So, prove that you are the real one by posting it on Btw´s MCF thread, or like I mentioned: shut up, get out.

But, if you are the real "Insert important Forgemember name here", sorry, but everybody can choose the name he likes on registration, and there are many trolls in the net.

[Miss_Kat]

Elevator I don't think that kind of hostility is really warranted here. Sure, proof that cpw is who they say they are would be great, but until then, nothing they're doing or offering to do comes off as trolling to me.

[BinoAl]

FC isn't against compatibility by any means, he just doesn't really work toward it. While I can't exactly speak for him, I believe that if someone were to find a way to increase compatibility that didn't involve redistributing any of his code, there wouldn't be an issue

[Sarudak]

Yeah he basically said as much before about the guy who supposedly made BTW compatible with forge with redistributing any BTW changes but it turned out that he actually was redistributing btw changes. Even if you can make BTW compatible with FML you're still a long way from making it compatible with forge as you have to reconcile all the baseclass changes that BTW does with the same files that are modified by forge.

[cpw]

Identity proof: https://github.com/cpw/FML/issues/90 unless you wish to dispute that github has somehow been subverted and I am NOT the author of FML... Please, I don't want to start an argument.

I am trying to ask a civil question: will BTW and it's author, FlowerChild, take active steps to prevent myself (and probably others) from including a compatibility layer for BTW into FML/MinecraftForge in some way (most likely via an ASM tranforming coremod wrapper for the BTW distributable), or otherwise desire us NOT to proceed with such an effort? Given other statements on the matter, it is difficult to know the answer, hence the question.

[cpw]

Yeah he basically said as much before about the guy who supposedly made BTW compatible with forge with redistributing any BTW changes but it turned out that he actually was redistributing btw changes. Even if you can make BTW compatible with FML you're still a long way from making it compatible with forge as you have to reconcile all the baseclass changes that BTW does with the same files that are modified by forge.

Not when you have ASM on your side, and complete control over the mod classloading...

[Sarudak]

I would say that he would not be particularly pleased about such an effort. He's actually happy being incompatible with everything because he feels his mod plays best by itself and he probably would not be happy about the increased tech support that would come his way with people installing incorrectly or what have you. OTOH the chance of him actively trying to break compatibility I would put at slim to none.

[Elevatator]

Okay, so sorry then. It´s just (a bit) weird, and I think I have become what I hate most. I have acted completely wrong, in both cases, that you are just a troll (I would have fed them), and that you are this Forge Person (being "a bit" too hostile)

[cpw]

Okay, so sorry then. It´s just (a bit) weird, and I think I have become what I hate most. I have acted completely wrong, in both cases, that you are just a troll (I would have fed them), and that you are this Forge Person (being "a bit" too hostile)

Never mind. It happens to us all...

[FlowerChild]

I can appreciate what you're saying cpw, but I'd really rather prefer if BTW remained incompatible with FML.

You're probably aware of my history, and that I do not wish to be compatible with the Forge overall. I really don't see how making it compatible with FML would also mean Forge compatibility, so if you could explain that point I'd be much obliged.

Also, I personally found the creation of FML itself to be rather questionable after everything Risugami has done for the modding community, especially given that ML and FML are likely to both become obsolete in the near future, as soon as the first pass of the official mod API comes out.

As a result, I just saw no real good reason for the creation of FML. It just risked pissing off an important member of the community when the whole thing is about to become a non-issue anyways. It really felt like kicking a man when he was down (or going down).

So yeah, from my perspective, I'm quite happy being incompatible with both FML and Forge, and would rather leave it that way. I never take intentional steps towards incompatibility, so you certainly don't have to worry about me trying to sabotage your efforts or what have you, but if I have any say in the matter, I'd much rather that things be left the way they are, and that Risu be left with one of his big remaining sources of downloads in BTW.

Similarly, I'm really wondering why you'd risk stirring up trouble here by proposing FML/BTW compatibility when this is likely to be a non-issue within the next few months. At present, I leave you guys alone, and you leave me alone, so why risk hostility and resentment by doing something like this when it can just be waited out? Honestly...I just want to make my mod here and not be disturbed by these kinds of issues. Isn't just leaving me alone to do my thing the most reasonable course of action?

[cpw]

Thanks for the reply flowerchild. I will respect your wishes. FML's existence as a debate: that's a different question and this is not an appropriate forum. Though https://github.com/Mojang/Minecraft-API/commits/master isn't inspiring me that this API is going to happen as soon as you believe...
Thank you again for your reply, I will take my leave.

[FlowerChild]

Thanks for the reply flowerchild. I will respect your wishes. FML's existence as a debate: that's a different question and this is not an appropriate forum. Though https://github.com/Mojang/Minecraft-API/commits/master isn't inspiring me that this API is going to happen as soon as you believe...
Thank you again for your reply, I will take my leave.

That's extremely civil of you man. Seriously: thanks for that. I won't forget it.

And yes, I realize that the nature of the official API is extremely up in the air. The forum is littered with my various rants on the subject :)

Anyways, take care mate, and once again, thank you for your understanding and consideration in this. It means a lot to me.