Vanilla Minecraft News Discussion

[Urian]

Warning. Rant incoming.

I think it's time that people take some advice from the suggestion sub-forum and apply it here as well: Think before you post!

Seriously, what is it with this particular thread that takes what otherwise is a very good community of intelligent people who usually have good ideas and turn it into a haven for bitching and moaning children, complaining over every single fucking thing without even trying them out. For heaven's sake, some of these things aren't even implemented in a snapshot before people start going on about how it's ruining minecraft.

I doubt anyone here would complain about any feature in BTW before you've tested it. The same thing applies to changes to Mojang make, try them out at least before you start going on about how stupid and idea it is, etc etc, blah blah, ad nauseum. You might think about using the argument that BTW is a free mod and we should appreciate all the hard work FC puts into it (and we should, I can't even begin to imagine the time and effort it takes to make BTW. The work FC does is truly mind boggling!) while Minecraft is a game you bought. Well yes, you bought it and it's a complete game that's been launched already. The stuff they do now is more or less free, think of it more as the content patches an MMO has than as a part of the game itself.

Back when trading was supposed to be the thing that killed minecraft (has it died for anyone yet or was that just some more pointless whining?) I mentioned two things that I'd like to repeat:
First: Don't believe everything you read about how horribly something will be, the Internet is unfortunately full of people who love nothing more than to (sometimes subconsciously) cause drama and probably the most common way to do this is via critiquing things and predicting how it will be the end of all good in the world and once it -whatever it is- happens then there will only be drudgery left of the once verdant world. Before you jump on the train to Doomsville, do some research yourself. In the case of trading it was quite easy to see that most of the things people complained about were moot or at least would have required on average more work to gain them via trading than via other sources. Minecraft isn't balanced with BTW in mind so using arguments about situations that arise from things BTW adds is completely irrelevant, don't even bother.

Second: What is your ground from which you criticize the design decisions of Minecraft? FC can back his views up with years of professional experience (and now with BTW as well), when he gives critique it's often based on a larger view. For a lot of the people who complain though, it seems like you're just doing it to either follow FC's example or because it's not just what you wanted. So what? If reading through the decision forum teaches us anything it should be that most peoples' ideas are shit. From things like Battosay posted it seems like Mojang at least has some form of long reaching plan, they might deviate from it and add random stuff but at least they seem to have some form of idea where Minecraft is going. You don't.

As for the latest change, reducing xp from mob spawners. Isn't that pretty much the same thing FC did with hardcore chickens? Changed/"nerfed" the mechanics since it was too powerful and therefore caused people to rely on it rather than opting for a greater diversity of activities? Funnily enough I haven't seen anyone complain there... go figure.

End rant.

So what do I want with this rant? Think before you talk. It's easy, apply the same amount of forethought to criticizing Mojang as you do to posting suggestions, if you feel that you've really got a good idea then go for it. If you're just posting the first thing that pops into your head, I'd rather you just kept it there.

[FlowerChild]

So what do I want with this rant? Think before you talk. It's easy, apply the same amount of forethought to criticizing Mojang as you do to posting suggestions, if you feel that you've really got a good idea then go for it. If you're just posting the first thing that pops into your head, I'd rather you just kept it there.

Yeah, we won't agree on this and never will. I would counter this by asking you to restrain your constant criticism of any criticism directed at Mojang's design decisions.

And yes, I do think trading was a bad move...after playing with it. That holds true of pretty much every feature I've bitched about when it was first announced.

To my knowledge, nobody ever said that it would totally ruin the game, just that it would make it worse...which it did.

EDIT: I think it's appropriate to take a time-out here to prevent this escalating.

[Sarudak]

EDIT: I think it's appropriate to take a time-out here to prevent this escalating.

Dangit really? *goes and stands in the corner*

[The Phoenixian]

Back on the spawner trap nerf topic:

I'm not sure about whether this has good implications for Vanilla minecraft or not but I'm actually kind of hopeful for it: Assuming it only affects spawners I think it may well discourage (that form of) AFK play by turning full mob traps, and the extra work and design time needed for them, into a superior solution.

Although it does remain to be seen whether things work out that way.

[FlowerChild]

Back on the spawner trap nerf topic:

I'm not sure about whether this has good implications for Vanilla minecraft or not but I'm actually kind of hopeful for it: Assuming it only affects spawners I think it may well discourage (that form of) AFK play by turning full mob traps, and the extra work and design time needed for them, into a superior solution.

Although it does remain to be seen whether things work out that way.

Yup, I agree with the above. I personally dislike spawner traps myself, given that they take a bit of incentive away from building a regular mob-trap (which to my mind is a far more interesting challenge), and because as you pointed out, they almost require AFK play given the extremely limited activation distance (something which I'd never change, because it again discourages regular traps).

However, yeah, I do see it as symptomatic of Mojang's general attitude towards mob-traps, and their excessive focus on combat, so while I don't dislike this change, I do dislike the reasons behind it. I made a series of posts over on the BTW MCF thread about Mojang's focus on combat over the past couple of days if anyone is interested in a more detailed explanation of my views on that.

[agentwiggles]

After a few hours of play that I (finally had time to) put in today, and a little bit of experimentation with a trap I set up around a zombie trap a while ago, I kind of agree with the sentiment behind nerfing them. Previously that trap was so slow and crummy that I never really bothered with afk'ing at it very much, but I spent about half an hour in there today to test it out under the new leveling scheme. It's MUCH more effective now, pushing me up from 1-20 in that 30 minutes. Pre 1.3.2 I think I was making 1-20 in about an hour, so the speed has doubled. Seems OP for something that took me about an hour to build - I've been digging out a place for a full-scale mob tower for weeks now.

[MoRmEnGiL]

***Note that the stuff below are my opinion, just my view, and not to be taken as enforcing my views on people***

Hm. Why is it bad that new players can get food from zombies? Not only they always did, but it is extremely unreliable as a source. Plus nothing can beet a good beef farm in efficiency. Mob trap drops might be a thing, but then again, I got tired of eating anything other than beef or pork. *shrug*

I mean I do get what FC is saying, but why should >we< be worried about what the average kid just starting playing minecraft experiences? What people who play btw experience is what is important. And honestly the first hours when starting a new world are always boring and unimportant to me. It's much later that you get to the fun stuff,once you start to get established. I'm willing to bet nobody plays btw without ever having played vMC, so eh.

I'm not happy at all with the phrasing "nerfing xp farms", it sets off my alarms. In essence, what Dinnerbone did makes a lot of sense, but that wording leaves a very bad taste. Also, I think making leveling up easier in 1.3 then making it harder using another system kinda looks like bad planning to me.

The boss thing could be interesting. Maybe.

Portal changes sound nice to me. Getting animals to the nether could be bad from a btw style perspective, but man I'd love to be able to use them to liven up that hellhole. An overworld looking oasis in the middle of the nether complete with blue(wool) skies and animals loafing around would be cool.

Besides, automated animal farms in the nether would be really interesting, given that no water is available.

The cornerstairs and upper hatches make me squee with joy.

I hope the wip block is not scrapped, it was way too cool. Multiblock contraptions ftw.

Invisibility potions are actually very cool, since they open up not only a whole new PVP world, but also the door to invisible mobs, where you would need other means of detection, and defensive measures.

The other aesthetic stuff, well, aesthetic additions are always welcome, they don't detract or add anything to core gameplay, what more can I say. *shrug*

It's clear that mojang and FC want to take mc in different directions, but that is natural imho, especially this far along vmc's development. FC has a very strong vision,and wants to move btw along a more defined path. Mojang wants mc to be kinda generic, a platform to build stuff upon. Which makes the lack of a complicated tech tree, focus in technical stuff, or focus in general understandable.

Their slow response to some critical features bugs and glitches is much less understandable though. Glitchy mobs (now in ssp!) Mod api. Boats. Lackluster or unfinished features like brewing, enderdragon fight, the end,or even the nether indeed. Eh, it's their game.

I gave up on being annoyed a long time ago, I just try to enjoy what is there. As long as FC is around, developing btw, never a dull moment. It's a pitty he has to fight the current, but dammit man, you have our support. Feel something is bad? Deal with it as you see fit. We might not like every single thing, but we don't need to. Btw is enormous, and offers so much,it would be a drop in the ocean.

*** P S ***

Well this turned into a rant. I'm sorry :/

I just hate to see tension frustration and anger all around. It affects me negatively. In the grand scheme of things, if you hate pickles in your burger, you can always remove them and go on. :]

[htothetml]

If you hate pickles in your burger, you can always remove them and go on.

I love that saying man, I think I found an awesome sig. :)

Sorry back to the topic. The whole mob spawner and I use this term loosely "nerfing" it is still a work in progress, just like they said. Who know's what it will be when the release comes out. Or for that matter if FC (besides himself) will change it to whatever he thinks is right.

[FlowerChild]

Who know's what it will be when the release comes out.

<raises hand>

[foxbane]

Hi new here and didn't know where else to start. I'm still learning a bit about BTW so take this as you will, but I agree with what Urian and MoRmEnGiL about this. It makes little sence to be mad about thing you haven't tried and about something that for the most part might not really affect the way you like to play the game. I do agree with Mr. FlowerChild about a few things (I won't miss bonemeal that much) but that does lead in to my own point about a lot of the hating on this stuff. How many of you have a reason for disliking of some of the features that Mojang is adding that isn't something that FC hasn't said himself? Remember that bonemeal remark? Now I kinda now why and understand why FC dislikes it but for me just useless in how I play my early game and has caused me to die three times in under 15 min (I will not explain how it happen here) I do use it (or would) later on down the road but if it was gone it really would change anything at that point. What does this tale have to do with my earlier question simple most of you just parrot what FC says and not have a good reason yourselves. Urian point is right for this reason and MoRmEnGiL said what I was thinking when most people of this tread complain about something. I want to.. no I would LOVE to see where FC is going with BTW and thats why I play this mod but for the love of notch just chill and let FC bitch about this stuff XD.

[Itamarcu]

I actually like this release. There are just many features that I'd LIKE to have in Minecraft, such as the new potions, item frames, dyeable armor, etc. Perhaps not one of the best releases, but a good one nonetheless.

Invisibility potions are actually very cool, since they open up not only a whole new PVP world, but also the door to invisible mobs, where you would need other means of detection, and defensive measures.

...Are you implying we might actually NEED to have traps around our base? Excellent.

[Flesh_Engine]

On the plus side, no more wheat dragging that animal swarm across three consecutive ocean biomes in the dark, whishing you could just use that Netherrailroad "stargate" you laboured over for a day or two while dodging Ghast attacks, that you used to actually *get* to the animal swarm in the first place...

Honestly, if breeding in the Nether is a real problem to the design BTW has, just disable love mode for mobs in the Nether, problem solved...Apart from the occasional "lucky" Nethermob that gets through the portal by chance, the player still needs to build an actual spawning area/mobtrap with piston funnel to the portal and then idle in the Nether to keep the spawning active just to get them to the Overwold where they still need to get processed...
As far as the Nether Portal transition is concerned, i don't really see the problem if Love mode is off during stays in the Nether.

Mobspawners have always been rather OP when it came to XP gathering, what we're seeing now is merely the compensation for the new XP system. Does it feel tacked on? Quite, but they're correct in the reasoning that if one source of XP is easier, safer and more controllable than another they should adjust it accordingly.

[nmarshall23]

On the plus side, no more wheat dragging that animal swarm across three consecutive ocean biomes in the dark, whishing you could just use that Netherrailroad "stargate" you laboured over for a day or two while dodging Ghast attacks, that you used to actually *get* to the animal swarm in the first place...

Honestly, if breeding in the Nether is a real problem to the design BTW has, just disable love mode for mobs in the Nether, problem solved...As far as the Nether Portal transition is concerned, i don't really see the problem if Love mode is off during stays in the Nether.

I like it, maybe animals should slowly die in the nether, aka there is no water??
Reminds me, to start building my Nether stargate portals..

Anyhow, back on topic. I too, don't like how Mojang keeps adding stuff then kinda not flushing it out. Every item should have multiple uses. There are plenty of elements in vMC that need more developer love.

They are giving us cool toys, like I do like Frames, and the new stairs. At lest my building will look nicer.
And it's great that Maps are getting the attention they need.

But where is my Plugin API? They could give me a very simple one. Build on it as they go..

You know, the game limitations that Mojang imposes on FC, is interesting. I think that is because vMC can't be ignored. It's an artistic limitation, that FC has to design around, or as has happened more recently, revamped. I feel we are getting something better then vMC.

[darahalian]

Anyhow, back on topic. I too, don't like how Mojang keeps adding stuff then kinda not flushing it out. Every item should have multiple uses. There are plenty of elements in vMC that need more developer love.

http://theoatmeal.com/comics/flesh_vs_flush

They are giving us cool toys, like I do like Frames, and the new stairs. At lest my building will look nicer.
And it's great that Maps are getting the attention they need.

Yeah, the frames are nice, and I like being able to put maps in them, but maps really need to be bigger, like taking up the full block. I may try to do that myself. The invisibility potion also has quite a lot of potential, I think. It's fun to make mobs invisible.

And I am glad that maps are finally getting some attention, though I don't really like having the maps snapping to a grid to make them tile, and I think the scaling system they introduced could use a lot of work. Still, this is only a snapshot; hopefully these changes will be a little more polished by the time they're officially released. The one thing they've added to maps that I do really like is that there is now a little indicator on the edge of a map you aren't currently in, showing which edge you're closest to.

[CycloneSP]

new snapshot is out. says they changed the recipe for buttons and fixed up a few bugs.

[DxPanxD]

new snapshot is out. says they changed the recipe for buttons and fixed up a few bugs.

It always did bother me that two cubic meters of solid stone turned into one tiny button >_>

[FlowerChild]

You know...it would have been nice if they included some redstone in the button recipe. I could understand those being old recipes, like for the leaver, button, & pressure plate, that might have been put in before any kind of standard was established for them, but if now they've revised it and didn't think to do so, well: it's just kinda sad.

Changed recipes for buttons. They now require 1 stone block/wooden plank to craft

Now, not sure what kind of sense that's supposed to make, but ok.

[DxPanxD]

You know...it would have been nice if they included some redstone in the button recipe. ~snip~

I kinda see your point, but early game would be somewhat more annoying like that. Usually I make an iron door asap, so having to find redstone before that would be a minor annoyance.

[FlowerChild]

I kinda see your point, but early game would be somewhat more annoying like that. Usually I make an iron door asap, so having to find redstone before that would be a minor annoyance.

Having to put in some work to get a proper defensive structure going? Yeah...how annoying.

[Kazuya Mishima]

This looks like could be of some use in the future

The attribute applied to allow them to pick up items is called CanPickUpLoot.

As of right now only hostile mobs can use pick stuff up and its' bcs they would likely be disarming themselves when they walk over a dead comrade, replacing a bow or sword for a bone or a piece of rotten flesh.

[MoRmEnGiL]

You know...it would have been nice if they included some redstone in the button recipe. I could understand those being old recipes, like for the leaver, button, & pressure plate, that might have been put in before any kind of standard was established for them, but if now they've revised it and didn't think to do so, well: it's just kinda sad.

Just imagine the public outcry :P

[Rich131]

As of right now only hostile mobs can use pick stuff up and its' bcs they would likely be disarming themselves when they walk over a dead comrade, replacing a bow or sword for a bone or a piece of rotten flesh.

AFAIK, mobs will only pick up an item if it better than what they are currently holding. I'm guessing that means they will swap outfor better armour or weapons but ignore anything else.

[The Phoenixian]

AFAIK, mobs will only pick up an item if it better than what they are currently holding. I'm guessing that means they will swap outfor better armour or weapons but ignore anything else.

Given that the Minecraft wiki patch notes say that zombie pigmen will lose their swords and skeletons lose their bows when they pick up items: I kind of doubt that.

Thankfully, It at least seems limited so mobs only occasionally spawn with the ability.

[destineternel]

We are flying to Seattle tomorrow, so no snapshot this week. Next, we'll start pushing these new features for a 1.4... Halloween update? :o

https://twitter.com/jeb_/status/240431798134378496

please say this is not going to happen.

[dr_spindizzy]

Why? What's wrong with that?

I like the look of Dinnerbone's ridable pigs!

I went with carrots, and the future of pig based transportation has arrived... this future smells funny :( dinnerbone.com/media/uploads/…

I won't add a recipe for saddles. I like the idea of them being rare & keeping dungeon loot semi-useful. In fact, we need more dungeon loot!