Theorycrafting: Steve, the black-hearted mad genius

[Rianaru]

Woah. Dude...that's just so...I mean...the IMPLICATIONS MAN! You can't even...just...how...deep, dude.

/end fake stoner rant

I'm sorry, it just sounded so much like something I would hear out of a stoners' mouth that I had to xD

[CycloneSP]

Hey guys, calm down now. I get the feeling that this course of discussion is getting undereath anarchitect's skin.

Also, this is just my two cents here, but while it is true that words and measurements mean nothing until is is assigned to them, it is a bad idea for each individual to assign their own meaning. For example, if I would to say 1 mile was the distance from my house to the end of the road, and you said 1 mile was an arbitrary number of steps you have to take with a certain sized foot, we wouldn't make much progress, would we?

Words are given specific definitions and meanings for a reason. Measurements are given an exact distance for a reason as well. If we all agree that a mile is a certain distance, then we can now interact based on that and work productively in society. In short; in order to function properly society needs a standard. Whether it be for words or measurements, the lack of a standard gives way to misinterpretation and misunderstanding; and ultimately leads to the crumbling of society itself.

So, to conclude, I do not agree that each person should have his on definition of what is good and what is evil, because that removes the fact that there is a standard to which we can then compare such words and actions. We have platinum metric weights stored in a vault in France for a reason, we have a dictionary for a reason. It is called a standard; we use them so that we may continue to function as a society. (I could go deeper and include religion into this, but that would violate forum rules, so let's not go there)




Sorry about the rant guys, one of my pet peeves is when ppl go about using words they don't even know the definition to or worse, know the definition and refuse to use the word properly. It annoys me most when I catch myself doing too.

[SterlingRed]

In a perfect system, yes cyclone that would be nice. The problem is concepts do not and can not have the same meaning to each person. Concepts of good and evil have no quantifiable measurement outside of set laws. And those laws differ from country to country, culture to culture, belief system to belief system. As long as that remains, definitions of such concepts will always be relative.

However, btw is only constrained by these concepts if relative good and evil are put in it by its creator, or interpreted as such by the player. I think the more interesting discussion revolves around the design philosophy behind in game choices. Within the game, do the concepts of good and evil exist if we do not impose our own definitions of them? If so, then Steve can be said to be inherently evil or inherently good or some combination of the two. Otherwise, applying evil or good labels to Steve is going to be relative based on the player. Perhaps it shouldn't be relative, but that's reality.

I'd like to propose an interesting discussion point. Should, or do you want, in game abstract relative concepts to align with the ones we have in reality? And if they were to be separate, how from a game design perspective, could the individual concept of morals be prevented from being imposed on the game designed moral views of Steve?

[Caboose]

All I know is that chaos is bad thing because if you cause enough chaos Unicron comes along and eats your planet.

We only got the one and that is where I keep my stuff.

[Dirdle]

Words are pointers to concepts. If I say "good," most people will understand a similar concept to what I meant when I said it, even if I am using an exact "the most possible happiness for the most possible people" definition and they are using "whatever feels nicest." We're both trying to point to the same concept; trigger the same evolved altruism mechanisms that the vast majority of people possess.

Morality may not be objective, but it's far from arbitrary.

[TheAnarchitect]

Hey guys, calm down now. I get the feeling that this course of discussion is getting undereath anarchitect's skin.

You have no idea. I've been suppressing my urge to tell people the don't know how to think for like 48 hours (though there's real world stuff involved there too).

But really, what started as conversations about BTW forcing us to make moral decisions has turned into everyone sharing their personal definitions of good and evil, and all the philosophical mess that involves. I'm a little guilty in that as well, because as soon as people started sharing I started to. But perhaps this conversation can be turned constructive again. Lets limit discussion of ethics to how it impacts gameplay and game design. If your post doesn't somehow bring the topic home to BTW, or at least gaming, then it's probably not meaningfully adding to the discussion. Sound good?

[CycloneSP]

Aye Sir!!! (kudos if you catch the reference)

Sounds good to me at least. *posts this while bathing in a glowing green shower of exp orbs* Does grinding the bones of hundreds of skellies, and bathing in the exp it provides count as good or evil? On on hand I am ridding the world of countless monstrocities of the walking undead, on the other I am enjoying the destruction of a (once) living creature.


(so many arrows.... sooooo many arrows)

[Horizon]

Some of the moral impact from monster farms is removed when you realize, "Well, under other circumstances, they'd try to kill me."

[Sarudak]

on the other I am enjoying the destruction of a (once) living creature.

Given the number of monsters I have some doubts as to whether they were ever really living creatures or if they are constructs designed to prey on Steve's fears.

[Horizon]

Morality starts to red shift once you realize that they simply pop into existance incessantly, and that they all literally behave the same way, no matter what conditions they appear in. Move towards you, attack, repeat.

[FlowerChild]

Morality starts to red shift once you realize that they simply pop into existance incessantly.

I apply that same logic to humans.

[Rianaru]

Morality starts to red shift once you realize that they simply pop into existance incessantly.

I apply that same logic to humans.

I prefer to apply it to stupid people and trolls.

[Extreme Boyheat]

The last thing you experience of this life is the feeling of being sucked into the void of darkness. No trace of you remains in this world, for you have passed into a realm of timeless existence. You have become a slave of an ancient evil.

Your adventure ends here.

Spoiler

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[TheFlame52]

Morality starts to red shift once you realize that they [mobs] simply pop into existance incessantly.

I apply that same logic to humans.

I prefer to apply it to stupid people and trolls.

Dear god someone sig this, mine's full.

[The_Jagermiester]

...
Herobrine...
He will get you some time...
He's real...
I've seen him...
He will get you...
...


The_Jagermiester

[Caboose]

Herobrine is just the overworld manifestation of the Ender Dragon.

[Urian]

Or he might be Steve's mortality that has been stripped away from him. Steve cannot truly die now because of that but whenever he dies he wakes without his memories and experiences.

[natchu96]

All I know is that chaos is bad thing because if you cause enough chaos Unicron comes along and eats your planet.

We only got the one and that is where I keep my stuff.

The last series (Prime?)was the one where they started out already screwed, because

Spoiler

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their planet already literally was Unicron

.