[SPOILERS] 3.80 feature discovery thread

[FlowerChild]

Ok, well, that was an unexpected and entertaining geek-out ;)

However, I think we should probably bring this back on topic though before we start getting into the additional variance introduced by the random aspects of the spawners themselves :)

[morvelaira]

*sigh* I'm so out of practice with math. Makes me wish I never had to leave college.

[CycloneSP]

Here's a thought, has anyone tried to see if ocelots/domestic cats drop any scrolls? I mean FC was kind enough to give us a method of mass farming fish. So Logic follows that there should be a use for the thousands of kitty cats you are now capable of breeding.




Or FC was just being extremely generous to cat lovers....

[The Phoenixian]

In regards to other mobs dropping scrolls: Honestly, I'm kind of wondering if we've hit the limit on that. Partially (and likely falsely) because of the idea of incentivizing a mob farm for the sole purpose of something that's only going drop drop once in a blue moon and will only need to be acquired a very few times weird to me, but mostly because several of the enchantments remaining do not seem like they would fit well with any existing mob (Unbreaking and Fortune most notably).

With that in mind, I can't help but think: While it's certainly possible that new mobs would fill the gaps there, arcane scrolls fundamentally represent the fruits of research and I'm wondering if perhaps there are other forms of research that have been/will be added besides sorting through the mountain of corpses and learning how they work.

[Rake]

Has anyone tried combining scrolls in some manner? Or possibly synthesizing scrolls into new scrolls through adding ingredients? I've yet to get a functional mob farm running so no scrolls for me.

[Sarudak]

Has anyone checked their fish farms to see if they give any scrolls?

[Magick_Miner]

If the scrolls represent knowledge,then only way to gain knowledge on fortune, efficiency and unbreaking would be by actually mining.

So maybe these scrolls are rarely dropped along with ores. In 1.3 mining ores gives experience so maybe we will also acquire scrolls (knowledge) on how to use this experience to improve our mining.

The other option could be that they are found in mineshaft chests, as in they are the knowledge of those who created the mineshafts in the first place.

[Poppycocks]

If the scrolls represent knowledge,then only way to gain knowledge on fortune, efficiency and unbreaking would be by actually mining.

So maybe these scrolls are rarely dropped along with ores. In 1.3 mining ores gives experience so maybe we will also acquire scrolls (knowledge) on how to use this experience to improve our mining.

The other option could be that they are found in mineshaft chests, as in they are the knowledge of those who created the mineshafts in the first place.

Lol, that sounds so scientifically logical, that one could suspect foul play :D.

But yeah, sounds about right, need to test....

[Magick_Miner]

Lol, that sounds so scientifically logical, that one could suspect foul play :D.

But yeah, sounds about right, need to test....

Foul play?

[Poppycocks]

Lol, that sounds so scientifically logical, that one could suspect foul play :D.

But yeah, sounds about right, need to test....

Foul play?

Like when you have all the necessary information beforehand, and just pretend to guess. But yeah, I'm just jesting, disregard.

[Magick_Miner]

No just a complete guess on my part. Just seems quite logical and might be why we havent heard of anyone finding any of these scrolls yet.

[Elevatator]

Unbreaking-Diamond
Efficiency-Obsidian
Luck-Lapislazuli
Thats my scroll-ore guess.

Random guess for wolf scrolls:
What does steve learn by killing animals, wich don't defend themselves when attacked? So I think only aggressive wolves would drop a scroll

[cge10]

Unbreaking-Diamond
Efficiency-Obsidian
Luck-Lapislazuli
Thats my scroll-ore guess.

Random guess for wolf scrolls:
What does steve learn by killing animals, wich don't defend themselves when attacked? So I think only aggressive wolves would drop a scroll

Thought so too until I remember that villagers drop looting.
So far I have 4 looting scrolls, 1 smite, 1 knockback, 1 sharpness, 1 projectile protection, 1 bane, and 1 fire aspect. I also have come to the conclusion that cows do not drop anything.

[Panda]

So can scrolls be acquired in mob traps passively or do you have to slaughter their bitch asses like Rambo to get scrolls?

[morvelaira]

This is just my instincts, but to my eyes FlowerChild doesn't seem to like the "mining produces xp" change. Yeah, he's tongue-in-cheekly tried to find justification for it, but he doesn't like it. I would hazard a guess that it would put a damper on him supporting that notion by having additional loot drop from ores. Just my guess.

[SterlingRed]

So can scrolls be acquired in mob traps passively or do you have to slaughter their bitch asses like Rambo to get scrolls?

Passive, recall the change FC made to allowing rare drops from non player kills? This works the same way although much rarer.

[devak]

talk about luck: after killing about, well, 20-ish Creepers i got a scroll of Blast Protection. Was working on my mob farm when i removed a wall, and was greeted/hugged by two creepers. One blows up, i kill the other and BAM, scroll :D.

Anyway, have killed dozens of Zombies and skeletons by now, and no scrolls yet.


Just a question tho: Is the drop rate of every scroll equal? Or are some harder to obtain than others. I mean, it would make sense to have varying drop rates, especially since some mobs (e.g. zombies) spawn much more often than others (e.g. endermen).

[Sarudak]

Just a question tho: Is the drop rate of every scroll equal? Or are some harder to obtain than others. I mean, it would make sense to have varying drop rates, especially since some mobs (e.g. zombies) spawn much more often than others (e.g. endermen).

It might make sense for something like squid for which it's really hard to build an effective farm for but an enderman farm in the end will produce tons of endermen.

[Urian]

I already asked about the drop percentages :) This was the answer:

I believe we still haven't found all the scroll drops, care to tell us what the drop percentage is? :P

Hell no ;)

This involves *serious* in-game work man. I don't even have all the scrolls myself, as I was torn between working on builds in-game and developing the features.

[FlowerChild]

Just a quick note:

After getting a chance to play around with my own systems a bit more, I think I'm going to go with the Arcane Scrolls getting consumed by the Infernal Enchanter each time they're used.

I was hesitant to do that initially, as I thought it a bit too punishing, but what someone mentioned about incentive to maintain (not just build) and work on the efficiency of mob-traps was correct. At present, you build it and walk away, soon as that first scroll drops.

The other thing I've been considering is that this will be much more interesting for SMP. Mob-traps are large fucking contraptions that are hard to hide, and thus hard to defend in an anarchy environment. The dimension-specific nature of some of them (Endermen in particular) would also add what I would think to be a really cool aspect of factions vying to control particular dimensions to maintain their ability to produce certain enchantments.

So yeah, it doesn't fit with my "scrolls as knowledge" concept, but I'm willing to ditch that idea in favor of what I think creates a better gameplay experience. I'll likely be changing that for the next release.

[Elevatator]

Will this mean that they will be easier to get?

[Urian]

Will the drop rate remain the same? Some of the scrolls seem to be from mobs that are difficult enough to build farms for (ghasts, magma cubes) that it would probably be easier to just go with a vMC item and hope you get the enchant you want. It is still obviously something under development so difficult to tell how exactly it will evolve but I'm curious if people would abandon trying to get scrolls and go back to vMC tools with their random enchantment if the scrolls become too rare.

[gungad]

Just a quick note:

After getting a chance to play around with my own systems a bit more, I think I'm going to go with the Arcane Scrolls getting consumed by the Infernal Enchanter each time they're used.

I was hesitant to do that initially, as I thought it a bit too punishing, but what someone mentioned about incentive to maintain (not just build) and work on the efficiency of mob-traps was correct. At present, you build it and walk away, soon as that first scroll drops.

The other thing I've been considering is that this will be much more interesting for SMP. Mob-traps are large fucking contraptions that are hard to hide, and thus hard to defend in an anarchy environment. The dimension-specific nature of some of them (Endermen in particular) would also add what I would think to be a really cool aspect of factions vying to control particular dimensions to maintain their ability to produce certain enchantments.

So yeah, it doesn't fit with my "scrolls as knowledge" concept, but I'm willing to ditch that idea in favor of what I think creates a better gameplay experience. I'll likely be changing that for the next release.

I still don't found any scroll, but i thought they already work in that way.

[Battlecat]

Sounds like a reasonable decision to me FC.

I think there's something larger at play than just knowledge. The arcane scrolls seem almost more like advanced soul binding where occasionally Steve can capture more of the mob essence beyond just the xp. But it's not a permanent, reusable thing, just like the xp. Anyhow, that's just my interpretation, I like the concept of the mechanic and having them consumed will indeed make for more interesting gameplay, especially on an anarchy server!

[FlowerChild]

I think there's something larger at play than just knowledge. The arcane scrolls seem almost more like advanced soul binding where occasionally Steve can capture more of the mob essence beyond just the xp. But it's not a permanent, reusable thing, just like the xp. Anyhow, that's just my interpretation, I like the concept of the mechanic and having them consumed will indeed make for more interesting gameplay, especially on an anarchy server!

Yeah, that's my feel on it. As I've mentioned before, I create back-story to try and help keep everything internally consistent within the mod, but in cases where it interferes with gameplay, the story gets the axe :)

Inevitably, I'll come up with another internal justification for it down the road. Plus, nothing else is dependent on it right now, so it's a good time for me to make this move.