Beginners' Guide
Re: Beginners' Guide.
Yup. I don't see any problem with that!
You know what you should read? Worm. Here you go: https://parahumans.wordpress.com/catego ... tion/1-01/
Re: Beginners' Guide.
I already fixed it. :)
Re: Beginners' Guide.
Thanks!! I'm not the fasted to think of these things. First time editting a wiki. Writing the next phase of the guide now. It gets way more complicated once you hit pottery and try to make the jump to steel.sargunster wrote:I already fixed it. :)
Last edited by Kreyesh on Sat Jun 23, 2012 3:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Beginners' Guide.
DAMNIT ALL TO HELL. There really needs to be a "Are you sure you want to close this tab?" Question asked for when people are switching back and forth between tabs and havent saved their work in awhile..... AAAAARGH.
Re: Beginners' Guide.
Ok, Updated to include everything up to Soulforged Steel. And holy crap is that a complicated step. Progress has been made!
Re: Beginners' Guide.
Good job, the guide is coming along very nicely. One little correction I'd like to point out since it was something that I did wrong the first time I progressed through the tech tree.Kreyesh wrote:Ok, Updated to include everything up to Soulforged Steel. And holy crap is that a complicated step. Progress has been made!
When building your first Kiln to smelt your first crucible and such, you really shouldn't invest in the 214 or so netherrack. You don't need 9 hibachis to make a kiln, you need only one. Granted, it will be much slower, but it will allow you to progress through the tech tree much quicker, or at least reach a point at which you won't be wasting your ground netherrack not making soul urns.
Funny story actually, the first time I progressed through the tech tree I also thought I needed 9 hibachis, and I didn't know powering hoppers would work without a soul urn; I was stuck for quite a long time. So basically I ended up having to deal with a huge amount of ghasts to build my first kiln. It was pretty hilarious I have to admit.
Re: Beginners' Guide.
Now i need some actual beginners to test it and tell me what they think. So i can tell if someone who knows nothing about the mod can really follow along.
Re: Beginners' Guide.
I think that you should create a section on the use of a cauldron for rendering before you move on to steel.
Rendering is a useful ability that new players should know about. In addition, one has to create both tallow and potash to craft a few BTW items. Maybe it's too advanced for a beginners guide, but it deserves a mention.
Rendering is a useful ability that new players should know about. In addition, one has to create both tallow and potash to craft a few BTW items. Maybe it's too advanced for a beginners guide, but it deserves a mention.
Re: Beginners' Guide.
I had weighed in on the talk page regarding what I am about to say; here I will clarify my opinion on my two major concerns and hopefully reach a consensus.
I think a beginner's guide is a good idea; however, it's a precarious type of page to write. My principal concern is that the temptation will always be there to include ever more information, detail, how-tos and hints. The "Baby Steps" section mentioned earlier in this thread is a perfect example: excess information not strongly related to actually getting started with BTW specifically, and which broadened the scope of the page.
Any page needs to be focused and know its limits. It needs to speak directly to its main concern, allowing links to speak for things that are related. With this in mind, I think the Beginner's Guide should focus primarily on the "flow" of BTW - age progression and central features becoming available in each age - versus being an introduction to all of the things you can do in BTW. It should especially not go into precise execution details, allowing links to put the flesh on its skeleton of direction.
Giving room for the player who is reading to innovate is also important. The article should impart knowledge rather than hold the player's hand. As an example, the Hemp section of the guide prescribes 10+ hemp seeds be gathered and planted in a safe area on a large plowed tract, as well as dictating the type of hoe needed. However, it provides no motivation for these actions by way of mentioning Hemp's importance in the mod - knowing which the player would infer to gather many seeds - and it does not link to the page for Hemp Seeds, which would contain all the necessary information on hoe quality. It then goes on to restate many details of Hemp, its growth stages, requirements, as well as crafting details of its derivatives. Such a wall of detail is unnecessary and can cause the reader to lose track of the goal. It should be relegated to the specific item and block pages, learning how to use which is also a skill the beginner's guide should teach. It would suffice to simply state how much hemp the player needs to advance to the next stage, perhaps giving an approximate breakdown of where it's used (and why!)
Still in the Hemp section, the "things to do while you wait" paragraph provides perhaps the clearest example of what doesn't belong. Husbandry is vanilla behaviour and its mechanics should not be explained (though that would be largely true even if it were a BTW feature). All that should be stated on cows is that "for later stages, you should consider gathering some cows. In BTW leather is used not only for armour but for many other needed items"
In my opinion a Beginner's guide should motivate mod features. While for a newbie knowing how to do things is important, the 'why' is yet more; hence, a purely mechanistic list of steps is not, in my view, appropriate.
My second quibble with the article as it is the excessive use of colloquialisms ('handy' overuse, ':P', etc.). A wiki should conform to a certain standard of formality, even (perhaps especially) on pages such as the Beginner's Guide. The mod may easily be judged by it, and in general a wiki is a "published" document, so that while humour and idioms are certainly not out of place, they need to be used in a targeted manner. In addition, "conversational flow"-style writing, as exemplified by sentences like "Now, back to your Hemp Farm." simply feels out of place.
My third non-quibble is, as always, grammar, spelling and punctuation (malformed ellipses in particular). This is natural in a fresh article and is not really an issue that needs to be discussed as fixes are mechanistic.
I know that the above may come off as critical - and being criticism, it is. However, I am in no way trying to disparage the work. The article is an immense contribution on a much needed topic, which is a bolder step than I've dreamt of taking. I am by nature a word shuffling, comma twiddling pedant. However, such pedantry has its uses, and I believe my concerns for the article's direction and tone are valid.
pre-P.S.
Oh my God, it's 4:23 AM.
I think a beginner's guide is a good idea; however, it's a precarious type of page to write. My principal concern is that the temptation will always be there to include ever more information, detail, how-tos and hints. The "Baby Steps" section mentioned earlier in this thread is a perfect example: excess information not strongly related to actually getting started with BTW specifically, and which broadened the scope of the page.
Any page needs to be focused and know its limits. It needs to speak directly to its main concern, allowing links to speak for things that are related. With this in mind, I think the Beginner's Guide should focus primarily on the "flow" of BTW - age progression and central features becoming available in each age - versus being an introduction to all of the things you can do in BTW. It should especially not go into precise execution details, allowing links to put the flesh on its skeleton of direction.
Giving room for the player who is reading to innovate is also important. The article should impart knowledge rather than hold the player's hand. As an example, the Hemp section of the guide prescribes 10+ hemp seeds be gathered and planted in a safe area on a large plowed tract, as well as dictating the type of hoe needed. However, it provides no motivation for these actions by way of mentioning Hemp's importance in the mod - knowing which the player would infer to gather many seeds - and it does not link to the page for Hemp Seeds, which would contain all the necessary information on hoe quality. It then goes on to restate many details of Hemp, its growth stages, requirements, as well as crafting details of its derivatives. Such a wall of detail is unnecessary and can cause the reader to lose track of the goal. It should be relegated to the specific item and block pages, learning how to use which is also a skill the beginner's guide should teach. It would suffice to simply state how much hemp the player needs to advance to the next stage, perhaps giving an approximate breakdown of where it's used (and why!)
Still in the Hemp section, the "things to do while you wait" paragraph provides perhaps the clearest example of what doesn't belong. Husbandry is vanilla behaviour and its mechanics should not be explained (though that would be largely true even if it were a BTW feature). All that should be stated on cows is that "for later stages, you should consider gathering some cows. In BTW leather is used not only for armour but for many other needed items"
In my opinion a Beginner's guide should motivate mod features. While for a newbie knowing how to do things is important, the 'why' is yet more; hence, a purely mechanistic list of steps is not, in my view, appropriate.
My second quibble with the article as it is the excessive use of colloquialisms ('handy' overuse, ':P', etc.). A wiki should conform to a certain standard of formality, even (perhaps especially) on pages such as the Beginner's Guide. The mod may easily be judged by it, and in general a wiki is a "published" document, so that while humour and idioms are certainly not out of place, they need to be used in a targeted manner. In addition, "conversational flow"-style writing, as exemplified by sentences like "Now, back to your Hemp Farm." simply feels out of place.
My third non-quibble is, as always, grammar, spelling and punctuation (malformed ellipses in particular). This is natural in a fresh article and is not really an issue that needs to be discussed as fixes are mechanistic.
I know that the above may come off as critical - and being criticism, it is. However, I am in no way trying to disparage the work. The article is an immense contribution on a much needed topic, which is a bolder step than I've dreamt of taking. I am by nature a word shuffling, comma twiddling pedant. However, such pedantry has its uses, and I believe my concerns for the article's direction and tone are valid.
pre-P.S.
Oh my God, it's 4:23 AM.
BTW Wiki word wrangler, sentence surgeon, paragraph purger.
Bad writing is like a tangled string: it's easier to cut it than to untie it. Mediocre writing is like a loose string: you can pull it taut to have some left over. Good writing is a hemp fibre.
Bad writing is like a tangled string: it's easier to cut it than to untie it. Mediocre writing is like a loose string: you can pull it taut to have some left over. Good writing is a hemp fibre.
Re: Beginners' Guide.
I definitely agree with what Shmooooo said. The chapter covering the windmill needs some work. I don't see too much use in explaining the exact size of the windmill or high how above ground you need to place it. Nor do I think that you need to mention the exact number of gearboxes needed etc.
I haven't made up my mind entirely yet but it might be a good idea to add a paragraph explaining how the windmill operates under different weather conditions and that powering the first gearbox with redstone helps to not break it. This is something that might be a bit unclear for a new player, expecially if they aren't within viewing distance of the windmill when the rain starts. It also helps a good way to give some understanding on the difference between windmills and waterwheels. It is mentioned in the windmill page though which is why I'm having trouble making up my mind.
Overall you've done a great job and I'm sure this will go a long way in helping new players get started with the mod.
I haven't made up my mind entirely yet but it might be a good idea to add a paragraph explaining how the windmill operates under different weather conditions and that powering the first gearbox with redstone helps to not break it. This is something that might be a bit unclear for a new player, expecially if they aren't within viewing distance of the windmill when the rain starts. It also helps a good way to give some understanding on the difference between windmills and waterwheels. It is mentioned in the windmill page though which is why I'm having trouble making up my mind.
Overall you've done a great job and I'm sure this will go a long way in helping new players get started with the mod.
Re: Beginners' Guide.
I wont quote what shmoo said because thats a wall of text to repost and i hesitate to admit this but i dont know how to put in spoilers... >_<
Ok, I definitely agree with your opinions and the errors you are mentioning and the holding of the hand of the player is not entirely intentional. Having read over your redesigned introduction several times i believe it is WAY better then what i initially had in place by pointing the player in the right direction but leaving them to the means/time they spend on it. Ive mentioned several times that my spelling/grammar are terrible and will need some work, haha. As far as the hemp stage goes, yeah i'll try to rearrange it today. Sort out some of the extra junk and stick to the basics.
I appreciate the criticism, since it is the only way i can improve my work. Ok i am going to quote a chunk of what you said here because i find it especially important.
"My second quibble with the article as it is the excessive use of colloquialisms ('handy' overuse, ':P', etc.). A wiki should conform to a certain standard of formality, even (perhaps especially) on pages such as the Beginner's Guide. The mod may easily be judged by it, and in general a wiki is a "published" document, so that while humour and idioms are certainly not out of place, they need to be used in a targeted manner. In addition, "conversational flow"-style writing, as exemplified by sentences like "Now, back to your Hemp Farm." simply feels out of place."
This is not an intentional inclusion in the article or something that i added in with concious thought. I absolutely hate writing professional documents, haha. So I will need to work on a lot of editting as i tend to write the way i talk all the time. If i try to write it the correct way as i go it quickly becomes a major task and i no longer have the motivation to plow through then get it out there. I kinda have the feeling that its best to get big chunks out there then worry about editing and such later. Especially since simply seeing something wrong will very often motivate people who would never take the time to write it themselves to correct your work.
In conclusion, thank you for the criticisms and editing work youve done! I will definitely work on the things you suggested.
Ok, I definitely agree with your opinions and the errors you are mentioning and the holding of the hand of the player is not entirely intentional. Having read over your redesigned introduction several times i believe it is WAY better then what i initially had in place by pointing the player in the right direction but leaving them to the means/time they spend on it. Ive mentioned several times that my spelling/grammar are terrible and will need some work, haha. As far as the hemp stage goes, yeah i'll try to rearrange it today. Sort out some of the extra junk and stick to the basics.
I appreciate the criticism, since it is the only way i can improve my work. Ok i am going to quote a chunk of what you said here because i find it especially important.
"My second quibble with the article as it is the excessive use of colloquialisms ('handy' overuse, ':P', etc.). A wiki should conform to a certain standard of formality, even (perhaps especially) on pages such as the Beginner's Guide. The mod may easily be judged by it, and in general a wiki is a "published" document, so that while humour and idioms are certainly not out of place, they need to be used in a targeted manner. In addition, "conversational flow"-style writing, as exemplified by sentences like "Now, back to your Hemp Farm." simply feels out of place."
This is not an intentional inclusion in the article or something that i added in with concious thought. I absolutely hate writing professional documents, haha. So I will need to work on a lot of editting as i tend to write the way i talk all the time. If i try to write it the correct way as i go it quickly becomes a major task and i no longer have the motivation to plow through then get it out there. I kinda have the feeling that its best to get big chunks out there then worry about editing and such later. Especially since simply seeing something wrong will very often motivate people who would never take the time to write it themselves to correct your work.
In conclusion, thank you for the criticisms and editing work youve done! I will definitely work on the things you suggested.
Re: Beginners' Guide.
Don't worry too much over the grammar and style as you write. I, and I'm sure others, will go over the article to make sure everything is in good shape as far as the mechanics and tone of writing are concerned.
BTW Wiki word wrangler, sentence surgeon, paragraph purger.
Bad writing is like a tangled string: it's easier to cut it than to untie it. Mediocre writing is like a loose string: you can pull it taut to have some left over. Good writing is a hemp fibre.
Bad writing is like a tangled string: it's easier to cut it than to untie it. Mediocre writing is like a loose string: you can pull it taut to have some left over. Good writing is a hemp fibre.
Re: Beginners' Guide.
To anyone actually using the guide i apologize for not getting steel in today. My wife monopolized my time, the entire day.
Re: Beginners' Guide.
*High five*Kreyesh wrote:To anyone actually using the guide i apologize for not getting steel in today. My wife monopolized my time, the entire day.
All day long? Nice man, nice.
And good job on this project, it will be really helpful for a lot of people.
The spice must flow...
[03:28] <Detritus_> Weird, I'm still logged in her
[03:28] <Detritus_> Weird, I'm still logged in her
Re: Beginners' Guide.
Ok, i need help. Battosay, i believe you are the expert in this section but anyone else is more then welcome to put in their two cents.
I am trying to set up a semi automatic on the way to automatic soul urn filler. I almost have it, i have a BD a DB a hopper above with the filter and ground netherack run over it and mechanical power and all that good stuff. I have the DB there so that when it Stops detecting a pottery block in front of it(it drops into a hopper below then chest once it is filled) it will turn off the redstone output which will then let a redstone torch turn on the dispenser and throw out another urn. But then the detector comes back on and the urn is sucked back in. I think what i need is a pulser, that takes the inverted input from the detector and only outputs a single pulse that is inverted into the always on dispenser shutting it off for a sec then back on again to spit out the next urn.
I saw the pulser in one of battosay's videos but lost which one and searching for a redstone pulser on youtube is absolutely hopeless. Anyone got a simple design for one?
I am trying to set up a semi automatic on the way to automatic soul urn filler. I almost have it, i have a BD a DB a hopper above with the filter and ground netherack run over it and mechanical power and all that good stuff. I have the DB there so that when it Stops detecting a pottery block in front of it(it drops into a hopper below then chest once it is filled) it will turn off the redstone output which will then let a redstone torch turn on the dispenser and throw out another urn. But then the detector comes back on and the urn is sucked back in. I think what i need is a pulser, that takes the inverted input from the detector and only outputs a single pulse that is inverted into the always on dispenser shutting it off for a sec then back on again to spit out the next urn.
I saw the pulser in one of battosay's videos but lost which one and searching for a redstone pulser on youtube is absolutely hopeless. Anyone got a simple design for one?
Re: Beginners' Guide.
Why don't you just put a Buddy in front of the urn, and invert the signal to a Flip Flop/BD counter, and then connect it to the main BD?Kreyesh wrote:Ok, i need help. Battosay, i believe you are the expert in this section but anyone else is more then welcome to put in their two cents.
I am trying to set up a semi automatic on the way to automatic soul urn filler. I almost have it, i have a BD a DB a hopper above with the filter and ground netherack run over it and mechanical power and all that good stuff. I have the DB there so that when it Stops detecting a pottery block in front of it(it drops into a hopper below then chest once it is filled) it will turn off the redstone output which will then let a redstone torch turn on the dispenser and throw out another urn. But then the detector comes back on and the urn is sucked back in. I think what i need is a pulser, that takes the inverted input from the detector and only outputs a single pulse that is inverted into the always on dispenser shutting it off for a sec then back on again to spit out the next urn.
I saw the pulser in one of battosay's videos but lost which one and searching for a redstone pulser on youtube is absolutely hopeless. Anyone got a simple design for one?
1. Urn get's filled and becomes an item, drop into the hopper
2. Buddy sends signal to the flip flop, which makes the BD place an urn in front of it
3. The placed urn also updates the Buddy, but this time it does nothing (because of the Flip Flop)
4. Rinse and repeat.
You know what you should read? Worm. Here you go: https://parahumans.wordpress.com/catego ... tion/1-01/
Re: Beginners' Guide.
Yeah that may be easier. Thanks!
-
Thalarctia
- Posts: 367
- Joined: Wed Apr 11, 2012 12:54 pm
Re: Beginners' Guide.
Another possibly solution is a standard Battosay monostable circuit, with the output connected to the BD through a simple inverter. When pottery disappears, the monostable circuit generates a short on-pulse, which will briefly give the BD an off-pulse, meaning it will reset the pottery since the inverter causes it to be default-on.
Re: Beginners' Guide.
Phew, what a rough week, for those of you in the military you will understand this, ranges in 100+ degree weather with near 100% humidity, hell on earth. Got my expert badge back though, booya.
Moving along. I know this has nothing to do with my beginner's guide which i will eventually finish but i wanted to ask a question. If a particularly inexperienced but eager to learn individual had a desire to make a mod that was fully compatable with BTW to be released for use within the BTW community here on this site is there a version of an api built into BTW or a set of files to use that will remain fairly consistent to base off of and build on? I guess I'm trying to ask if it would be possible to make an add-on for a mod, haha. I am fully aware that FC is NOT interested in being compatable with any other mods and will go to 0 extra work towards that end, and thats not what i'm asking at all. But how hard would it be for someone else from outside to design something that specifically works with btw and is not stand-alone?
Specifically i am interested in things like millenaire(although i obviously wouldnt use it without permission) because i love having interactable and buildable and all that stuff, villages in my game. I love interacting with towns and not feeling like i am entirely alone in the world but also not being forced to limit myself to a certain building area.... etc. I believe that BTW would be amazing to use with fully expandable and interactive villages/towns.
So, would any expereinced modders be willing to throw in their 2 cents here on how hard it would be for someone like me to take that kind of code and make it compatable?
P.S. I am in NO WAY asking for FC to deviate from or spend time on anything outside of his current developemental path and fully understand his split from forge after watching several VERY long interviews with battosay and the other guy and FC. I have seen people get banned for requesting that before and am very cautious to even post this question.
Moving along. I know this has nothing to do with my beginner's guide which i will eventually finish but i wanted to ask a question. If a particularly inexperienced but eager to learn individual had a desire to make a mod that was fully compatable with BTW to be released for use within the BTW community here on this site is there a version of an api built into BTW or a set of files to use that will remain fairly consistent to base off of and build on? I guess I'm trying to ask if it would be possible to make an add-on for a mod, haha. I am fully aware that FC is NOT interested in being compatable with any other mods and will go to 0 extra work towards that end, and thats not what i'm asking at all. But how hard would it be for someone else from outside to design something that specifically works with btw and is not stand-alone?
Specifically i am interested in things like millenaire(although i obviously wouldnt use it without permission) because i love having interactable and buildable and all that stuff, villages in my game. I love interacting with towns and not feeling like i am entirely alone in the world but also not being forced to limit myself to a certain building area.... etc. I believe that BTW would be amazing to use with fully expandable and interactive villages/towns.
So, would any expereinced modders be willing to throw in their 2 cents here on how hard it would be for someone like me to take that kind of code and make it compatable?
P.S. I am in NO WAY asking for FC to deviate from or spend time on anything outside of his current developemental path and fully understand his split from forge after watching several VERY long interviews with battosay and the other guy and FC. I have seen people get banned for requesting that before and am very cautious to even post this question.
Re: Beginners' Guide.
Just made some grammatical corrections, mainly spaces and removing the word "lots".
Re: Beginners' Guide.
There is currently nothing like that, but FlowerChild has stated several times that he will eventually make a BTW API, intended for things like adding Anvil, Crucible or Turntable recipes, adding other types of mechanical power sources, etc. If you want your mod to be compatible it might not be very hard to do it without the API, but I recommend using it so that it won't be a separate mod but an addon.Kreyesh wrote: Moving along. I know this has nothing to do with my beginner's guide which i will eventually finish but i wanted to ask a question. If a particularly inexperienced but eager to learn individual had a desire to make a mod that was fully compatable with BTW to be released for use within the BTW community here on this site is there a version of an api built into BTW or a set of files to use that will remain fairly consistent to base off of and build on? I guess I'm trying to ask if it would be possible to make an add-on for a mod, haha. I am fully aware that FC is NOT interested in being compatable with any other mods and will go to 0 extra work towards that end, and thats not what i'm asking at all. But how hard would it be for someone else from outside to design something that specifically works with btw and is not stand-alone?
Specifically i am interested in things like millenaire(although i obviously wouldnt use it without permission) because i love having interactable and buildable and all that stuff, villages in my game. I love interacting with towns and not feeling like i am entirely alone in the world but also not being forced to limit myself to a certain building area.... etc. I believe that BTW would be amazing to use with fully expandable and interactive villages/towns.
So, would any expereinced modders be willing to throw in their 2 cents here on how hard it would be for someone like me to take that kind of code and make it compatable?
P.S. I am in NO WAY asking for FC to deviate from or spend time on anything outside of his current developemental path and fully understand his split from forge after watching several VERY long interviews with battosay and the other guy and FC. I have seen people get banned for requesting that before and am very cautious to even post this question.
...You just stated temperature using Fahrenheit. You bastard :)Phew, what a rough week, for those of you in the military you will understand this, ranges in 100+ degree weather with near 100% humidity, hell on earth. Got my expert badge back though, booya.
You know what you should read? Worm. Here you go: https://parahumans.wordpress.com/catego ... tion/1-01/
Re: Beginners' Guide.
Thanks Itamarcu, i must have missed FC stating things like that. Ive been trawling the forums history for a few weeks now but you can never find everything in all the posts. I can probably wait if some kind of BTW api is in the works or will be eventually.
-
Deepsniper
- Posts: 682
- Joined: Mon Jul 18, 2011 10:49 am
- Location: Canada
Re: Beginners' Guide.
If you guys look through the code it is already possible for adding in new things like recepies and stuff through the crucible and anvil and cauldron. You just need to know where to look for it.Itamarcu wrote: There is currently nothing like that, but FlowerChild has stated several times that he will eventually make a BTW API, intended for things like adding Anvil, Crucible or Turntable recipes, adding other types of mechanical power sources, etc. If you want your mod to be compatible it might not be very hard to do it without the API, but I recommend using it so that it won't be a separate mod but an addon.
-
RockyRoark
- Posts: 3
- Joined: Sun Jul 01, 2012 4:50 pm
- Location: United States
Re: Beginners' Guide.
I just recently started with BTW, I'm having huge problems to where I can't use the Bellows or the turntable. I've followed everything to a "T" and tried multiple different ways and none of them work.
Any suggestions?
Any suggestions?
Re: Beginners' Guide.
Turntable must have mechanical power supplied to the bottom of it with an axle. Bellows has to have ALTERNATING mechanical power. So you need to run redstone to a gearbox right before the bellows and then alternate the redstone power to turn the gearbox on and off.