Well, that was frustrating

[Stormweaver]

no rubble left, mods deleted everything from just after people agreeing with eloramm onwards.

Which is again strange, since no forum rules were broken and it was a fairly sensible debate.

[Calcifire3691]

no rubble left, mods deleted everything from just after people agreeing with eloramm onwards.

Which is again strange, since no forum rules were broken and it was a fairly sensible debate.

what do you mean? heavy handed knee jerk over the top reactions?
can't see any of that here...

honestly, it was probably someone reporting FC or someone repeatedly, causing the mods to just knock it down like a jenga tower (rather than ctually read what the problem is) (although, I guess it's good that they're impartial I guess...)
I guess FC was too civil for them...

[Stormweaver]

honestly, it was probably someone reporting FC or someone repeatedly, causing the mods to just knock it down like a jenga tower (although, I guess it's good that they're impartial I guess...)
I guess FC was too civil for them...

Can't really call it impartial when the original comment from elo and the slander from the various forum users following it remains.

[DreamsofFury]

Holy shit....3 pages were cleaned out on a refresh after i posted again....and I thought I was being rather nice....even to the overmind or whatever dude that basically flat told me off though i was still being respectfull QQ

[Calcifire3691]

honestly, it was probably someone reporting FC or someone repeatedly, causing the mods to just knock it down like a jenga tower (although, I guess it's good that they're impartial I guess...)
I guess FC was too civil for them...

Can't really call it impartial when the original comment from elo and the slander from the various forum users following it remains.

I meant that they see where they thought the problem began, and just blow up everything after that point, rather than read things and begin to take a side themself.
I'm not sure about you but I'd rather NOT get into an argument with the person who can change what I say at will (imagine that debate but with a mod backing them up, they could edit FC's posts to make him say "raaagh, I eat babies and am implementing that in BTW next!" or something, nothing anyone said could be trusted)

ooh, I just realized what this BTW vs RP2 thing resembles: Sauron vs The Borg
(evil medieval era tech with some magic) vs (evil technologically advanced all consuming race)

[Itamarcu]

I just saw a comment that ended in a compliment to Eloraam. a few seconds later I refreshed and saw someone quoting FC and agreeing with both sides. About one minute later the post mysteriously disappeared.

EDIT:
Eloraam just quoted the user whose post got deleted :)

[ilovekintoki]

zz pointless drama

[Gilberreke]

Okay, I've got a bit of perspective on the issue.

Apparently, what sparked the comment from Eloraam is that recently (since the igniter release), tons of BTW users are dropping on her IRC to verbally attack her. I heard this from one of the #Redpower guys.

I'd like to point out that I don't condone that behavior either. I don't buy the "hurt damsel" shtick, but it seems like the whole thing is indeed a direct reaction to members of our community acting out of line.

[morvelaira]

I can say for certain its not me, nor anyone with whom I regularly spend virtual time. If it isn't just a rumor and some of our people really are doing this, Laira says shame on you!

[Gilberreke]

I can say for certain its not me, nor anyone with whom I regularly spend virtual time. If it isn't just a rumor and some of our people really are doing this, Laira says shame on you!

It's not a rumor. What I'm guessing is that there is maybe 1% of the BTW user base on these forums. That leaves a lot of BTW fans in the open that we don't have any authority over. If only a small portion of them start harassing the Redpower channel, I can imagine it becomes a pain to manage, causing Elo to lash out, causing FC to get riled up again, causing the whole thing to start over.

[Stormweaver]

I can say for certain its not me, nor anyone with whom I regularly spend virtual time. If it isn't just a rumor and some of our people really are doing this, Laira says shame on you!

The thing is, is it our people or our people? Only a fraction of BTW's userbase is active/registered here, and when it comes down to it that fraction is the only bit we have any control or influence over for any intent, good or evil.

Seems like an added incentive to sort out IRC at some point though. I doubt anyone would be stupid enough to flame there with the same username as here, but a 'positive' BTW influence there might at least deter some uneeded hostility.

[Gilberreke]

The thing is, is it our people or our people? Only a fraction of BTW's userbase is active/registered here, and when it comes down to it that fraction is the only bit we have any control or influence over for any intent, good or evil.

Yeah, seems odd to think that it would be people from these forums, though you never know.

Also: Ninja'd you

[Elevatator]

So everything began with some fans trolling each other because of one feature, that both mods has?

[Mr_Hosed]

Is it just me, or is the Minecraft community at large full of trolls and drama-queens? Maybe it's just the sheer number of users makes the vocal minority seem like they're mostly the aforementioned... I don't know.

Anyways, yeah, just an observation and why I really only come to this forum these days.

[morvelaira]

Even still. If it's anyone here, I hope they do feel shamed. I'm sad to say there are a few people even on these forums I wouldn't put it past, and that makes me sad.

[Calcifire3691]

I doubt it's people from here.
FC's righteous hammer B&jolnir would smite them before they got the chance.

it's probably an amateur troll reaching for the low hanging fruit by pretending to be a BTW user, or is a BTW user who thinks s/he's helping FC somehow

So everything began with some fans trolling each other because of one feature, that both mods has?

sort of.
how far back do you mean "began"?

FC leaving forge?
Elo making the igniter?
or just this particular debate?

[RaustBlackDragon]

Okay, I've got a bit of perspective on the issue.

Apparently, what sparked the comment from Eloraam is that recently (since the igniter release), tons of BTW users are dropping on her IRC to verbally attack her. I heard this from one of the #Redpower guys.

I'd like to point out that I don't condone that behavior either. I don't buy the "hurt damsel" shtick, but it seems like the whole thing is indeed a direct reaction to members of our community acting out of line.

Oh thank goodness. I had looked at the last few posts and was afraid this might have somehow been me, but no, that's not something I had any part in.

I did speak with Eloraam on DireWolf20's IRC, but I didn't mention FC or BTW in her presence, because I didn't want to possibly spark an argument on DW20's chat room. I was polite to her, and I don't intend on changing that.

My general stance on this issue has basically become as follows:

I support FC 100%, but the only positive contribution I feel I can or should make is to politely correct my fans' misconceptions about him when they crop up, which actually doesn't happen very often anymore. I support FC, and I think that's all he really asks from us in this issue. I won't fight on FC's behalf because I seriously doubt FC would want me to :)

[Catox]

This is pretty messed up and hard to follow, really.

First, "here" : this discussion began with some Stormweaver message that is now "-removed-", and since this very thread starts without any lead to what it's talking about... roughly if you want to know what it's about or where it's from, well, you just have to have been there in time.

I was there... and kind of had a hard time seeing what the big deal was. I had read Eloraam's message before Stormweaver finaly pointed it clearly and never really saw what was the funadmental problem or new in it : she's complaining about BTW fans complaining about her lack of originality. Well :
- you wouldn't expect her to finaly agree about the matter now, do you ?
- the fact that she expresses about he matter would just make me think or say : "hey missy, you're late now ain't ya ? this is weeks old !"

Now there's the non-naming part that sort of got on FC nerves and lead him to anwser. This I understand.

Then there's the "there", MC forum where messages get deleted for no reason and without any mention. Yay.
(oh, how I hate censorship of most kinds...)

And here I read people complaining about people complaining about people posting hate messages that got deleted or that are unreachable to the lambda yet interested reader that doesn't have time to get on some unknown IRC channel...

wow...

I don't know, why bother about what's being told on IRC and whom may have tell it if we don't know what it is that was told anyway ? Or just post some damn log, for clarity's sake, don't you think ?

[Katalliaan]

I know that I don't have the persuasive abilities to convince people about Eloraam, and I also know that Curse's moderators (like everything else about that company) are horrible, so I haven't bothered to post anything over there. That being said, I do support FC, despite any slander that's thrown by RP fans or unwarranted comments made by BTW fans that don't follow these forums. It's also not worth doing so - every post made brings the RP thread to the top of the board, and since all the ones defending FC/attacking Eloraam were deleted, it simply bought Eloraam some publicity for whatever her latest release will be.

[MoRmEnGiL]

I refuse to get myself involved in fanboy flamewars in any way shape or form. The problem is, I can;t stand injustice or lies, so I tend to react badly to them, so I think I'll avoid this whole situation altogether. I'm in minecraft to play and in related forums to talk to people I like about things I like, anything else is pointless.

I do find it shameful that she's being harassed though. This is the lowest kind of behaviour.

[Jay42]

Aww, shucks. Seems like I missed the party... again. Not that I would have contributed anything, but those things tend to be a quite hilarious read.

[rhacer]

Darn looks like I missed all the fun. If people are going to troll, they need to learn how to do it politely so it doesn't all get deleted so I can read and laugh later on!

[Gargantuan_Penguin]

I think this about covers it. and it seems like the weather is just going to get worse as Elo gets more and more support.

[FlowerChild]

Guys, I call total and complete bullshit on this IRC harassment bit.

It just doesn't follow the pattern I see time and time again when I step outside of this forum. Typically you see countless people going on and on about what an asshole I am followed by some lone individual countering that.

I do not see some kind of virtual army that's running around attacking people in my name. I've never seen anything even vaguely resembling that. It just doesn't fit the pattern of how the community generally behaves.

As I said before, she's extremely manipulative. Don't drink the Kool Aid.

I was there... and kind of had a hard time seeing what the big deal was. ?

For me, it boiled down to the obvious attempt to elicit sympathy, the blatant bullshit of the whole "I won't name names but..." and the use of the word "libelous". Again, effectively calling me a liar in a very nebulous fashion without providing anything to back that up, when I'd very much like to hear what precisely I have lied about at any point in this. She also seems to be trying to portray me as some kind of villain stalking her around and organizing continual attacks against her on "many fronts", making her life miserable in the process, which is total hyperbole.

Outside of that Youtube link a few weeks ago, I can hardly remember the last time I got into it with her or about her.

Anyways, before people started getting soft on her again, I think the general assessment of the situation was bang on: I think she's eliciting sympathy to lay the groundwork for a release of epic rip-off proportions. The more hatred is stirred up now, the less people will object to her doing that as it will be viewed as part of an ongoing conflict rather than as an unmotivated act of hostility.

[Sajuuk]

I refuse to get myself involved in fanboy flamewars in any way shape or form. The problem is, I can;t stand injustice or lies, so I tend to react badly to them, so I think I'll avoid this whole situation altogether.

I'm with you there.

I've only been skimming this topic because, as a relative outsider, it just looks stupid. I would say that if Elo just came out like "yeah, it was his idea and I'm just ripping it off" I'd say that's fair play. Whatever, I don't give a shit. Then again I have very little personal shame. Live with it, own your mistakes, I say.

but that's not what we see, is it? It's deflection, meek feelings, and calling in the forum soldiers. A familiar tactic in argument, to phrase something which is mostly false with enough grave sincerity that it gathers sympathy and support. No one thinks too hard about it because it hits you in the emotional center and subverts rationality. The psychology of phrasing I guess. I don't know if I worded that correctly so I hope folks understand.