I've come to an understanding... [RANT]

[Damion Rayne]

As a second note...

We have Solar Panels in real life...
IC2 has Solar Panels...

ZOMG IC IS STEALING FROM THE REAL WOLRD!!

*pfft*

I spoke with Alblaka and his response about the computer thing was thus,

<Alblaka>: Uhm, it's commonly known we both had the CPU idea independently and announced them separately either way.

Here's a screenshot of me talking to him on IRC,



Uploaded with ImageShack.us

So again, before you bandwagon and spout stuff you have NO IDEA about, watch yourself and do your research.

Oh and PS:

<Alblaka>: As well, please post "Feel free to critisize Eloraam for her approach, but stop calling me a dumbass. Because stating shes obviously tricking me kinda sounds like 'Lol, Alblaka is dumb'. Taking personal offense to that."

[jorgebonafe]

Arguments? You mean the lot of you jumping on a bandwagon? Yeah I'd call that Arguing a point...

So let me get this right, say I want to do a steampunk mod...
Say I want clockwork stuff and mechanical power..

OH WAIT I'M NOT ALLOWED TO BECAUSE FC DID IT ALREADY!!! I'm a copying thieving piece of garbage!!!

Please, come up with valid arguments or keep your bandwagoning to yourself.

If you have one feature in your mod that works the same as another mod, that is not a problem. I'm pretty sure there are some mods out there that makes something like blocks of light that you can turn on and off, or a block that places other blocks (I saw this once, can't remember where). You don't see anyone calling them thieves.

But when you start getting one functionaloty after the other, again and again, that not only works the same, but even ocasionally looks the same, and when all the mods these features are comming from are using the same API, well, that's a different story. When you think of forge, you automatically think Buildcraft, IC², Better then Wolves, and RP. Ok, let's see...

Buildcraft pipes... pneumatic tube... check.
BTW Block dispenser... transposer/breaker... check.
BTW platforms... RP frames... Check
BTW Cauldron/Cruscible... Alloy furnace... check
IC² filters... RP filters... check.
IC² power grid/blocks ... RP power grid/blocks... check
buildcraft diamond pipes... RP sorting machine/tubes... check
IC² paint brushes... RP paint can/brushes... check...
IC² electric drill... not check... for now...

All forge mods... So yeah... not the same thing.

[Damion Rayne]

Arguments? You mean the lot of you jumping on a bandwagon? Yeah I'd call that Arguing a point...

So let me get this right, say I want to do a steampunk mod...
Say I want clockwork stuff and mechanical power..

OH WAIT I'M NOT ALLOWED TO BECAUSE FC DID IT ALREADY!!! I'm a copying thieving piece of garbage!!!

Please, come up with valid arguments or keep your bandwagoning to yourself.

If you have one feature in your mod that works the same as another mod, that is not a problem. I'm pretty sure there are some mods out there that makes something like blocks of light that you can turn on and off, or a block that places other blocks (I saw this once, can't remember where). You don't see anyone calling them thieves.

But when you start getting one functionaloty after the other, again and again, that not only works the same, but even ocasionally looks the same, and when all the mods these features are comming from are using the same API, well, that's a different story. When you think of forge, you automatically think Buildcraft, IC², Better then Wolves, and RP. Ok, let's see...

Buildcraft pipes... pneumatic tube... check.
BTW Block dispenser... transposer/breaker... check.
BTW platforms... RP frames... Check
BTW Cauldron/Cruscible... Alloy furnace... check
IC² filters... RP filters... check.
IC² power grid/blocks ... RP power grid/blocks... check
buildcraft diamond pipes... RP sorting machine/tubes... check
IC² paint brushes... RP paint can/brushes... check...
IC² electric drill... not check... for now...

All forge mods... So yeah... not the same thing.

Pneumatic tubes: Built in back flow and routing system/ BC pies? none to speak of, save things spilling on the floor. Better implementation.
Platforms the same as frames? Can you make a giant machine out of platforms and put redpower wiring on it, machine blocks on them, use motors and program the machine? NO
IC2 power grid is simple "Energy Units", RP2 grid..actual amperage and voltage via real world electrical engineering.
IC2 filter? What the hell are you talking about? There is no filter in IC2, not item or energy as told to me by Alblaka himself...you just, wow...
I'm not even going to keep getting into this with you, you've jumped on a bandwagon, made up your mind, took everything at face value and the problem is? 90% of the people on here did the same thing, and didn't really actually "LISTEN" to FC's issues. Not that it matters, because my defending Elo gets me a ban from FC soon as he logs in and sees this, because to confront him or disagree with him is to get banned. Oh well, at least I have the maturity to listen to both sides.

Try it.

[jorgebonafe]

Pneumatic tubes: Build in back flow and routing system/ BC pies? none to speak of, save things spilling on the floor. Better implementation.
Platforms the same as frames? Can you make a giant machine out of platforms and put redpower wiring on it, machine blocks on them, use motors and program the machine? NO
IC2 power grid is simple "Energy Units", RP2 grid..actual amperage and voltage via real world electrical engineering.

Right, so your argument is that she didn't make the same functionality, she did a "better implementation" of it? And, oh right, she didn't use EUs, she uses Amps... wow, you are right, its completely different.

[Damion Rayne]

Pneumatic tubes: Build in back flow and routing system/ BC pies? none to speak of, save things spilling on the floor. Better implementation.
Platforms the same as frames? Can you make a giant machine out of platforms and put redpower wiring on it, machine blocks on them, use motors and program the machine? NO
IC2 power grid is simple "Energy Units", RP2 grid..actual amperage and voltage via real world electrical engineering.

Right, so your argument is that she didn't make the same functionality, she did a "better implementation" of it? And, oh right, she didn't use EUs, she uses Amps... wow, you are right, its completely different.

It is different in implementation, and different code, and different in design. So yes, Different. What do you have to say about the fact you just accused her of stealing something from Alba that he just openly said was not true? Let me guess I faked it all and the screenshot isn't real?

[jorgebonafe]

It is different in implementation, and different code, and different in design. So yes, Different. What do you have to say about the fact you just accused her of stealing something from Alba that he just openly said was not true? Let me guess I faked it all and the screenshot isn't real?

I'm sure its different in code. As pointed out, Eloraam is a very skilled programmer and its perfectly capable of implementing any feature her own way. But the idea and implementation is just an improved version of the former, for all features I listed. I'm sure there are lots of different ways to implement those features, but it obvious just at a glance where they were based on, there seem to be no attempt at masking it. The pipes were really the most obvious, but all of them are in some way the same thing.

Also, about Alblaka saying Eloraam didn't copy any features from his mod, what does the tweet posted before, that he actually had to ask her not to make an electric drill on her mod, tells you?

[Damion Rayne]

It is different in implementation, and different code, and different in design. So yes, Different. What do you have to say about the fact you just accused her of stealing something from Alba that he just openly said was not true? Let me guess I faked it all and the screenshot isn't real?

I'm sure its different in code. As pointed out, Eloraam is a very skilled programmer and its perfectly capable of implementing any feature her own way. But the idea and implementation is just an improved version of the former, for all features I listed. I'm sure there are lots of different ways to implement those features, but it obvious just at a glance where they were based on, there seem to be no attempt at masking it. The pipes were really the most obvious, but all of them are in some way the same thing.

Also, about Alblaka saying Eloraam didn't copy any features from his mod, what does the tweet posted before, that he actually had to ask her not to make an electric drill on her mod, tells you?

I'm done with you. Done with this whole stupid thing.

[Gilberreke]

I see a lot of mistakes in arguments from both sides. I won't go into a big rant, though.

Jorge, just one example:
You claim Elo is copying because she posted that 4 days after Alblaka? As a programmer, you know she couldn't have programmed those computer blocks in 4 days, so that means those posts actually prove that Eloraam was developing the computer blocks before Alblaka announced them.

Damion, just one example:
Eloraam flat out admitted that she is creating one mod to do it all and that she doesn't mind remaking features from other mods, if she feels they are features she would have come up with herself anyways. Claiming those features are different because the implementation goes further and integrates better into her own mod is pretty much a moot point.

Don't take this post as being pro-Eloraam, pro-Alblaka or pro-FlowerChild, it's not meant as picking a "side".

I just don't like people arguing with half the issues raised being off-mark or logical fallacies. When I had problems with Eloraam's mod, I just talked to her about it, that's the mature thing to do and it is what FlowerChild did too. If, after that talk, you decide you are against her mod, just say so, but don't burn people at the stake because some of your friends told you stuff. Do the research.

[Shengji]

Look guys, none of us here except Flowerchild knows the ins and the outs of the situation properly so none of our opinions are going to be as informed as his.

Damien - when you enter and continue a topic with that much drama, you really must know that people are going to react negatively to you. You may want the drama, but the rest of us don't. There are plenty of forums where you'll get it, but this kind of behaviour is not encouraged here.

Also, if you're done as you've claimed twice, why are you still here? Do you want to start shit? Because in my books, that makes you a lesser common internet troll.

[jorgebonafe]

Well, this is from her own post:

Does it work?
To be honest, I spent most of today doing up the art assets, getting the basic framework to work, and writing the console font rendering code. At the moment, it doesn’t do anything. But it will!

So, well, as I understand, she didn't make the blocks functional, only the visual, and as far as I can tell, yes, it would be perfectly possible for her to make that very quickly. Of course, I can't know that fur sure, I just stated that the fact she posted it so soon after Alblaka makes you wonder. The timing indicate, if not that she copied the idea, that she posted the idea publicly on that day on purpuse. I don't know for sure, of course, I just think that is very likely. That is only my oppinion, I could be wrong.

[Starhero]

I am not even gonna read this entire thread, there is no point. It's the same drama shit that has been going on for a while now.

You have a problem with copying? Ok then stop using all coffee mugs that have a different design, because they are copying from the first person that made one.

Or how about TVs? Computers?

Games in general? ALL FPS'es? MMOs? (don't get me started on that one)

The fact is, the world works on copying, it is the implementation that is what is copying. The source for all of these mods, unless truly out right copied (and for those that are dumb, that means word for word, function by function), is not copying,

It is very hard in the technological industry to call copy right infringement on code. Why? Because how could you prove it? With OUT seeing the code you can't, only if the code in open source, and even that can be difficult.

Grow up fuck heads. You don't like the mod, don't use it, but to base your dislike over the copying of a FUCKING CONCEPT is stupid. Naive even, arrogant, and especially ignorant.

Do you know what Eloraam does for us? She makes our mods play nice together, she gives modders ways of doing things that they would have to implement themselves, taking time, and keeping us from the mods we love.

Do you know why forge will take off and become something large? Because it is open source, it is collaborative, and it is the best as of right now. It probably will continue that. More and more mods are using forge.

Do you know why she made tubes? Because she had to for HER mod, maybe she had some issues she couldn't fix in space toads code. They are fundamentally different.

Why the hell do you CARE? Because your sad developer of BTW got his panties up in a bunch and left forge because of what Eloraam was doing with something she started? He can code the way he wants, that is his prerogative, and it is hers also.

You people sound like the sad Apple supporters just buying SHIT because of a brand name and justification it the way YOU see fit, with not an ounce of logic involved in the neurological or should I say illogical paths ways in your puny brain.

If this is such a problem, it would be in court already..but wait...OH SHIT it isn't! Why? WTF is stopping lawful intervention? Because it is legal, and there is no irrefutable evidence in any of this. But haters will hate, and idiots will bitch.

But none have come to be better then eloraam at what she does, no one has come up with something that actually makes sense to prove any reason why she is a bad coder or a copy cat.

Aligations, are just that until they come into fact. Where is the fact? You don't have it.

Where is the truth? Oh, I know the truth, but the problem is YOU CAN'T HANDLE THE TRUTH!

I truly expect you to give no argument and really degrade into straight insults.

If eloraam was copying, THEN WHY THE FUCK DOES SHE HAVE SO MANY FUCKING FANS AND FOLLOWERS?

Fuck off.

[Shengji]

A load of codshite

Yes but the cup makers of the world didn't get together to make a collaborative factory to aid the manufacture of coffee cups only to have one of them subvert the factory for their own uses.

Use better similes which are actually similar dickhead

[Damion Rayne]

A load of codshite

Yes but the cup makers of the world didn't get together to make a collaborative factory to aid the manufacture of coffee cups only to have one of them subvert the factory for their own uses.

Use better similes which are actually similar dickhead

Dickhead? Fuck you mate, very seriously, fuck you.

Starhero is a different person you raging idiot. Which can be proven if need be...I don't condone him flying off that handle that much or that way, but you? You can get fucked asshole.

[Itamarcu]

If Eloraam was copying, THEN WHY THE FUCK DOES SHE HAVE SO MANY FUCKING FANS AND FOLLOWERS?

...Maybe because her mod has everything? the normal minecraft player would prefer a mod that has a lot of items than a mod that only has light blocks/computers/tubes.

Besides, the number of fans doesn't say a thing about the quality of the mod. BTW has a big community, but about 700 of the people registered to this forum are trolls/spam bots/people who almost never enter.

And are you implying that people SHOULD copy ideas?

[Haidaes]

And here I thought a mature conversation was possible, but by now the whole thread was derailed beyond any hope of redemption.
It's quite sad that some can't express themself w/o insulting others.

I'm done with this. Hit me with a ban.

Have a good one.

At this point the thread became a shit storm. W/o any need for it, as the person threatened with a ban didn't even receive one as far as I can tell.

[Ferrus.Manus]

CAN. SOMEONE. JUST. LOCK. THIS. PLEASE?

Jesus. Way too much drama (and let's not start pointing fingers who started it. Majority of us here are geeks and we tend to get too agitated about things that censors our geekdom. Let's just walk away and calm down, because nothing constructive will come out of this).

P.S. Shengji, it's just low to blatantly insult Damion Rayne just because you assumed that Starhero is his sockpuppet low. Dipshit. (I also would bet that Starhero is that HeadHunterSomeRandomNumber dude. He seems to have some pathetic nerd-vendetta against FC and BtW. I wouldn't put behind him to lurk in BtW forum waiting for his chance to troll).

[BinoAl]

So... Uh... When can we lock this? It's completely devolved to a flame-war =/

EDIT: Also, this has been sorta bugging me:

At the risk of making myself unpopular here

Not unpopular, just banned.

I mean, it's your forum, you can do whatever you want, but I feel like this was a bit unfair. He wasn't just brainlessly devoting his heart and soul to Elo, he had a couple valid points

[Shengji]

CAN. SOMEONE. JUST. LOCK. THIS. PLEASE?

Jesus. Way too much drama (and let's not start pointing fingers who started it. Majority of us here are geeks and we tend to get too agitated about things that censors our geekdom).

P.S. Shengji, it's just low to blatantly insult Damion Rayne just because you assumed that Starhero is his sockpuppet low. Dipshit. (I also would bet that Starhero is that HeadHunterSomeRandomNumber dude. He seems to have some pathetic nerd-vendetta against FC and BtW).

Hi Ferrus,

Sorry, you've kind of only seen half the story.

If you saw the PM he sent me from the wrong account, you wouldn't be so critical of my actions. Put it this way, calling me a cum dumpster was the least insulting thing in it, so I stand by my assertion that they are one in the same person, or at least are in the same room and that he deserves every thing I called him.

I'm not going to be a part of dragging that topic out anymore and I whole heartedly agree that it should be locked, but please understand I was absolutely furious with him.

Eh, I'll probably just go edit out my response anyway, well actually, he quoted it so it's pointless :/

[Damion Rayne]

One last thing,

Starhero is not me, as any IP check will point out..not to mention anyone wanting to call me on it, can join me on any number of voice applications to confirm that he and I are not the same. Do I know him? Yes. Do I think his rant was way to over the top? Yes. As for apologizing to Shen? Not going to happen, he/she/it attacked me first and I responded. I was attacked without provocation, accused of being someone else, and then people wonder why I threw back?

Oh well.

[sargunv]

Banned Starhero and Damion Rayne for turning this into a flame war.

I'm not sure if Mbossa deserved a ban though. :/

[FlowerChild]

Banned Starhero and Damion Rayne for turning this into a flame war.

I'm not sure if Mbossa deserved a ban though. :/

Yeah, I agree with the latter point. I was tired and reacted negatively to the possibility of this spiraling back into a flame war like the last time. The first point he raised about "preventing her from copying features or whatever" just brought up a lot of bad memories, and I really didn't want to go into the whole "nobody is stopping her, I'm just leaving" thing yet again.

Anyways, my apologies to Mbossa for overreacting based on my own history with the topic. For what it's worth, I'll lift the ban.

As for banning the other two, more power to you. I would have done it myself if you hadn't done it first.