Itamarcu's Tech Tree

[Itamarcu]

I made a new tech tree today - please comment!

The Tree (plus list), Ver. 3

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Here are my "Tech Trees". It is updated to the last version, and it ISN'T FINISHED.
I have done it on Macromedia Flash 8.
Take a look, and tell me which way is the best from those three:
1. Web-like, the red lines indicate the "main" tech progression.

2. A very basic pyramid. each stage requires the stages above it.

3. A normal tech tree - which is VERY complicated, hence the above solutions.

[BinoAl]

Today I created a very basic tech tree. It is updated to the last version, and it ISN'T FINISHED.
I have done it on Macromedia Flash 8.

I have done it on Macromedia Flash 8.

Macromedia Flash 8.

Whaa-- Why use flash for non animated, non interactive posters? Even paint is far better suited for it :0 I like the tech tree itself, though. It certainly will help a lot of people to have a visual representation

[Itamarcu]

Well, mainly because I suck at painting, and the םnly programs I have on my laptop are Flash and Paint.
And I HATE using paint. It just feels primitive to me.

[Mason11987]

Today I created a very basic tech tree. It is updated to the last version, and it ISN'T FINISHED.
I have done it on Macromedia Flash 8.
Take a look:



What do you think?

TO DO:

-Fix the Bone
-Add all the other items (BD for instance), that aren't directly connected to progression.

You said it isn't finished, so I'm sure most of these things you already intend to resolve, I've been working on a similar sort of thing for myself, I figure you might like the icons I extracted:

They aren't perfect, (in particular the transparent ones), but it might help:

http://i.imgur.com/Z27wC.png

[Itamarcu]

Wow, thanks!
Those surely will help me.
I'll try to add more items tomorrow.

[Brethern]

It looks decent though a bit confusing.

[Triskelli]

An excellent first step, but it needs a LOT of work before it becomes an effective resource. I think Mrchaim was considering making a tech-tree like this one. Not to belittle your effort, but I'd love to see his take on the topic as well.


A few tips for better organization:

-Try grouping the items together a little better by themes.
-A decent background that reflects those themes behind each "group".
-The shorter the lines you have to draw, the better. Don't be afraid to put a item on the tree more than once if it has to cross 10 lines to get to another interaction.


*rampant speculation ahead*

I think part of the problem here is the set idea of a tech "tree", like in Civilization. Minecraft world can vary wildly from each other in the resources that can be obtained, and thus aren't subject to a linear progression. Since some of these items are used so often such as hemp and the cauldron, I think a tech-web would be a visually appealing solution.

A tech web?

Pretty much. It'd work by placing the most used blocks toward the center, or in the case of the tech tree the items with the most links, and have them spread outwards. With the right artistic mindset, this would be a useful tool that could also emphasize the rather eclectic process of resource gathering. "Okay, so I found some wolves... What can I do with them?"

[Itamarcu]

Good ideas. I have another idea for the style:
In every layer, there are items that require at least one item from the previous layers.
This way there can be "pyramids" of technology, and I won't need, for instance, to connect basic materials (iron, wood) to more advanced items that need them in crafting.
I'll try to do it, along with the other suggestions.

[Mrchaim]

An excellent first step, but it needs a LOT of work before it becomes an effective resource. I think Mrchaim was considering making a tech-tree like this one. Not to belittle your effort, but I'd love to see his take on the topic as well.

I'm considering it. I just have to be not-lazy.

(And avoid going horribly crazy with all my other graphic design projects)

So, in lieu of that, let me offer some tips - Heads up, these are going to be blunt as hell, because subtly has no place when you're laying out information! (That last sentance is probably a lie)

Right now: I'm sorry, it's not an excellent first step. It's a start, but right now it's unusable to all intents and purpsoes.

You're trying to show me how everything interlocks and what you can do with everything at the same time. THis is... not a good idea. Why?

A: It's messy. Super, super messy - I cannot, at a glance, see where i'm at the techtree...

Which is deep irony when i'm currently at the soulforged steel level

B: It's confusing - How am i supposed to follow the lines? What do they represent? Which dirrection are they going?

And C, which is building off the previous two points: It dosent actually tell me how to get to the next level of the tech tree. The information is in there, sure, but it's only because i've already played the Mod that i can find it. A player who actually needs to see this would be totally lost.

See, the thing is, Better than Wolve's tech tree is explicitly very layered - You start with Hemp, Cauldrons and Millstones. Actually, Cauldron and Millstones really. and then you progress form there, to new technologies that open up further things (Windmill, Saw, Tanning/Hellfire Dust, Hibachi/Bellows, Kiln, Urns and Cruicbile, Soulforged Steel, ???).

So you need to convey that information first and foremost: What each level of tech is, and how do i get to the next? That's the question you've got to answer.

Edit:

Here's my 10 minute-no-real-effort-applied (Which is why it looks like crap - if i wanted to do this right, i'd hand draw all the icons, and find a way better font, as well as probably using nice sepia tones or somethign so it fit the style of Better Than Wolves) version of the techtree, going from the start to the first major achviement, that of constant mechincal power



The big thing to notice here is that i'm not including the recipes - Just the requirments to progess to the next item. (Yes, i know, it dosent have an icon to tell you where to get dung from - i was too lazy to get a wolf picture). You can probably see that in the next "Layer", i'd start with the saw, with arrows leading from the tanned leather and the "Constant mechincal power achived!" to the saw (Since you need one to make it, and the other to have it work - hence, they're both requirements).

And then i'd have that going to the panels, mouldings, etcera, then to hoppers... you get the idea.



(And please dont feel like i'm being excessively harsh to be mean here - I like to see people do their best when it comes to art and design, and part of that is not pulling my punches when something is wrong or poorly done. best approach is to think "I'll show that MrChaim, and get better just to spite him!", at which point you'll realize my cunning plan has suceeded - You've improved just like i hoped you would =) )

[Itamarcu]

Perhaps Something like this would be more easy to understand:

[Mrchaim]

Well, it's starting to imply the connections between things, which is good, and it's more reasonbly ordered. It's still incredibly obtuse if you've not played the mod through however

(And the background is horrible for visbility - stick with something simple, or at least something that dosent impact where the icons are placed)

[Itamarcu]

I updated the first two and tried to make a web-like version, just as you suggested.
Also added a poll to choose the best of them.

[BinoAl]

Well, sorry for my bluntness, but the web is far from what was intended. It's supposed to start at the center, with things attainable from the beginning, with the arrows going outward from there, to more advanced items all around the web. Yours is as much of a mish-mash as the original tech tree. The pyramid is a bit better, but not near specific enough. It doesn't show the exact items needed for each progression, just general groupings.

[Itamarcu]

The problem is, BTW uses many items at all stages (Gear, moulding, cauldron) and it's hard to do a tech tree without missing many recipes.

[Brethern]

What you could do is a tree like this.

http://sots.rorschach.net/images/9/90/S ... chTree.png

Each of those lines represent a different way to get to a certain tech.

[Mrchaim]

Then you need to define exactly what information you want to display man.

Let me a little more blunt: The players, no matter how new, do not actually need to see the recipes. What they need to see is the REQUIREMENTS.

This is a very, very different thing. Again - Look at my 10 minute jobby on the tech-tree - It doesn't tell you how to get hemp, or how to make a millstone and a hand-crank - It just tells you that you need all 3 of those to make hemp fibers, and that you need those to make fabric and rope, which you need to make a windmill and axles. And that if you have all 3 of those, you can achieve constant mechanical power.

So on and so forth.

Keep it simple. Be willing to use up large amounts of space to keep it readable. Use minimalist amounts of text if you feel it's needed -

But convey the information in a way that can be grasped without prior knowledge. Your web attempt is a better move towards this, but it's still a hideously complicated mess - You've got to keep things like readability and eyeflow in mind.

[walker_boh_65]

Try something AoE III where it shows the Age of each unit, I am certain something similar could be made here, if i could i would make a crap mock up, but all I have is paint (which i also hate)

[jorgebonafe]

What you could do is a tree like this.
http://sots.rorschach.net/images/9/90/S ... chTree.png
Each of those lines represent a different way to get to a certain tech.

I apologize for the off-topic on your thread, but I have to ask. Brethern, what is this game?

[Itamarcu]

The orange balls in the web are supposed to indicate the "main" materials you can get without any other item.
I accidentally moved them down a bit.

About the replies:
The web was supposed to be the most simple. There were no recipes, no names, and the lines were fairly easy to understand.
the only things I can do to make it simpler is either discard the materials not needed for progression (nethercoal for instance) or make it more like a tech tree, only this time it would be VERY large.

[Itamarcu]

What you could do is a tree like this.
http://sots.rorschach.net/images/9/90/S ... chTree.png
Each of those lines represent a different way to get to a certain tech.

I apologize for the off-topic on your thread, but I have to ask. Brethern, what is this game?

I think it's "Sword of the Stars". Never heard of it, but that's what I got googling "SotS" and "rorschach".

[Brethern]

What you could do is a tree like this.
http://sots.rorschach.net/images/9/90/S ... chTree.png
Each of those lines represent a different way to get to a certain tech.

I apologize for the off-topic on your thread, but I have to ask. Brethern, what is this game?

I think it's "Sword of the Stars". Never heard of it, but that's what I got googling "SotS" and "rorschach".

That would be correct.

The reason why I chose to link it's tech tree is simple. The way the game is designed is that there's a few basic techs that will always be available, power, drives, bigger ships, however all others have a percentage chance of appearing. It also allows for more than one way to get to a certain tech.

Or to put it in minecraft terms.
inecraft's tech progression is always 100% but it does require work to do so. And there's always a way to skip things. However there's a few core items that are needed in order to unlock the next tier.

[Itamarcu]

Well, the idea of the web is that you can easily see what you got and what you don't have, so you can know what to do now (Mine for coal dust, hunt cows, build a windmill).
Also, you can see exactly what you can do with your items.

About the tech tree above, I think it is very different from minecraft, since almost every item is important to the progress.

[Brethern]

Well, the idea of the web is that you can easily see what you got and what you don't have, so you can know what to do now (Mine for coal dust, hunt cows, build a windmill).
Also, you can see exactly what you can do with your items.

About the tech tree above, I think it is very different from minecraft, since almost every item is important to the progress.

Not really, the only important techs are.

fusion anti matter, the different drives, cruisers and Dreadnoughts. Those are the core techs. Same as how clay is core for progression as is wolves. Here this what I'm trying to point out.



hemp-------windmill---------wolves---------leather---------bellows.


Once those are done everything else becomes easy.

[Itamarcu]

Well, now I understand you.
Although it is more like:

Hemp - Windmill - Tanned leather - Saw - Bellows - Kiln - Crucible - Anvil

Do you want me to do a chain of those, with "secondary" items going from the sides?

[Brethern]

Well, now I understand you.
Although it is more like:

Hemp - Windmill - Tanned leather - Saw - Bellows - Kiln - Crucible - Anvil

Do you want me to do a chain of those, with "secondary" items going from the sides?

Basically yeah. and you're right I only added in what I remembered off the top of my head.

I need the wiki open when I play so I can remember things. Or at least recipe book.