Technic Mod Pack

[Battlecat]

I have to wonder whether these people would behave the same way if their real names were attached to their behavior.

Life goes on, I think the healthiest thing we can do is ignore that SA thread because nobody there sounds interested in listening. Speaking of users like derpal, there's another user named FlowerChild registered in the list right before him. Might be worth examining before he decided to actually start posting. Just a little fyi.

[Durandir]

Because it was ONLY for the SA thread, and even then ONLY for people who really wanted that level of depth and customization. The guy said himself it was just a quick and dirty hashing together. If it hadn't been for Yogscast putting it out in the light, it wouldn't have been any different then if I had done the same thing and given it to my friends for just us to use. I can image it being something he hotwired for himself and thought "Hey, the guys in the SA Minecraft Modding thread like to use a lot of these mods on and off, I'll just let them use it to!".

Yeah, he doesn't like Flowerchild, yeah he is a dick about it too. Not everyone is going to like everyone else, and most of them are huge assholes about it for no reason whatsoever. It doesn't make them stupid or evil. Just Assholes. Life goes on~

Well, that changes a few things. Those who give Flower crap over this are still dicktits though. And the guy putting this together also seems like a proper asshole. Oh well, as you say, life goes on. I am off to play half an hour of Bulletstorm before going to bed. I fear the "creative" swearing from that game has leaked through to my posts, for that I humbly apologize for. Or something.

[Alexia]

I think yogscast's success is going to their heads, they started accepting gifts and sponsorships to promote other games etc.
To them it's no longer a hobby for them and is now their job, but the more success they get, the less and less they do
things about minecraft, and instead flood their channel with their sponsorship games. They now get enough money and free
gifts that they gave up their day jobs. Gamescom 2011 just made things 100 times worst.

Sad really to see such a great duo sell out. As for the promo in their recent vid, they prob just assumed FC gave the modder
permission and were too lazy to check.

[Magmarashi]

I think yogscast's success is going to their heads, they started accepting gifts and sponsorships to promote other games etc.
To them it's no longer a hobby for them and is now their job, but the more success they get, the less and less they do
things about minecraft, and instead flood their channel with their sponsorship games. They now get enough money and free
gifts that they gave up their day jobs. Gamescom 2011 just made things 100 times worst.

Sad really to see such a great duo sell out.

I'll give you 4 million dollars, and all you have to do is wear my shirt and tell people it's grand

Honestly, in this state of the world if you can make a sizable buck off just the weight your name carries, you're a damn fool not to make it

[Beemlord]

I think yogscast's success is going to their heads, they started accepting gifts and sponsorships to promote other games etc.
To them it's no longer a hobby for them and is now their job, but the more success they get, the less and less they do
things about minecraft, and instead flood their channel with their sponsorship games. They now get enough money and free
gifts that they gave up their day jobs. Gamescom 2011 just made things 100 times worst.

Sad really to see such a great duo sell out. As for the promo in their recent vid, they prob just assumed FC gave the modder
permission and were too lazy to check.

Well it IS their job. Totalbiscuit is also a youtuber that makes a very good living off of just this kind of thing, except in a far more serious and journalistic tone. Does that make HIM a sellout as well? I don't think so. There isn't anything wrong with accepting sponsorship and making money off promoting games. It's more or less a matter of how they use their power and influence. I believe Paulsoaresjr egged his fan base to swarm the Terraria forum so he can get into their beta but that doesn't really bother anybody, even though he used his influence for personal reasons. Just because you do not like the Yogscast does NOT mean they are selling out. Do I agree with them knowingly starting a flame war? Not at all, they knew this would happen but went ahead with it anyway. That doesn't give me the right to pass such judgement as you do upon them.

[wyyve]

You know it is sad that this mod pack is illegal and so disrespectful otherwise I would really enjoy it, I have no problems installing mods but when resolving conflicts I'm always paraniod ill screw something up by accidental taping my mouse-pad

[walker_boh_65]

I think we have to see what they say at the end of there series, which part 2 just came out, before we find out their thoughts on it, because everything is prerecorded, so they may say something toward the modders at the end, who knows?

[MagusUnion]

Goons have already made their move to buy off Al... Unfortunately, Alba make be caving into the money pressure... (I can't tell atm because industrial-net is giving me a DoS error...)

[hiroprotagonist]

You know it is sad that this mod pack is illegal and so disrespectful otherwise I would really enjoy it, I have no problems installing mods but when resolving conflicts I'm always paraniod ill screw something up by accidental taping my mouse-pad

I registered to make a similar point. My comment is going to be extremely unpopular, but I hope a few will see things from my POV, even if they still disagree. KakerMix began by talking about his modded game and answering other people's questions about how to properly install mods and eventually it turned into a modpack the users of that thread could use. All the mods are credited and the guy is neither making money nor taking credit for anything in the pack. The disclaimer is pretty much "here's a bunch of stuff I put together for my own game, hope it's helpful". Kaker still answers tech support questions every single day and helps out fellow goons with modding questions. Trying to paint him as a super villain who stole FCs intellectual property won't win you guys any support and frankly makes the mod authors who are upset by this look like a bunch of crybabies to someone observing the drama from the side.



I certainly understand an author's/creator's desire to have total control over his creation. It's something you put countless hours into making, and you care a lot about what happens to it. I get that, but ultimately it's all about the user's experience. We download these mods because we seek to enrich our game world. It's not necessarily a difficult process, but there are many amazing mods that are not compatible and clash when you put them together. When someone volunteers to fix the incompatibilities and put them in a zip for me, more power to them! This is not the first "illegal" and "unofficial" modpack to come out of SA and certainly not the last. Another game I play a lot is SimCity4. It has thousands of 'mods' which are all basically models of buildings. Each of this individual "mods" has their own copyright and has to be downloaded individually. Hunting down each of these mods and their individual dependencies is a fucking nightmare. Luckily some goon said "fuck these retarded rules" and put together a huge bundle of these mods in a single download and shared them with the rest of the goons. Yes it breaks the rules and maybe someone is getting offended because of it, but nobody cares, because it's convenient. Every moder has a different reason for making a mod; some do it to learn how to code, some just want to add something the game is missing and some do it for fame and eternal glory. Accordingly, every modder has their own disclaimers, rules and support they are willing to provide. Users on the other hand all want the same thing - for the mods they download to work together hassle free and not break their game.

I have more to say, but this is getting quite lengthy for a first post, so I'm going to leave it be. I'm sorry if I offended anyone, it wasn't my intention.

[MagusUnion]

Luckily some goon said "fuck these retarded rules"

Stopped reading there... because rules (whether you like them or not) exist for a reason...

And personally, I find that's how they validate all their actions anyway...

[Fracture]

I never liked yogscast, and this made me hate them even more.

Agreed... someone should tell them they are not Stephen Merchant and Ricky Gervais.

To be honest I've never gotten the appeal of the Yogscast. Neither of them are particularly good at any of the games I've seen them play, they seem to do minimal work themselves, and have the kind of exuberant-idiot personalities I tend to associate with the Middle-School kids I can't help but want to punt.

I disliked them even prior to the Yogaboo incident simply by deign of the biggest, most glaring problem of their series: It's in no way entertaining to watch them play anything, least of all Minecraft.

[hiroprotagonist]

nevermind about rules. The point I am making is that a lot of people are thankful for modpacks because they are convenient and take a great deal of hassle away from the users. Personally I respect modmakers, and I appreciate that they shared their creation, but I also don't care about their sensibilities enough to obey every ego stroking rule out there. I like minecraft, and this little bit of code is going to make me enjoy it a bit more. That's all that matters. If that little bit of code didn't exist, then I wouldnt even have known about it, so there's no loss. But because it's there for my enjoyment, I'll do what I please with it.

Sure, that sounds selfish, but we're not in a legally binding agreement, I'm not your customer and that's the end of that.

[FurkeyRefills]

I disliked them even prior to the Yogaboo incident simply by deign of the biggest, most glaring problem of their series: It's in no way entertaining to watch them play anything, least of all Minecraft.

To you... I like to watch the Yogscast video's because of one reason... their English, and so am I, this means I get most of their references and I can talk about their video's with my friend's the next day :)

That YogPod is also pretty funny.

Don't get me wrong, I think the whole idea of them using this illegal modpack is despicable and me being a Yogscast fan does in no way mean that I support the BTW mod any less :)

We really do need one of those My Little Pony hate shields... XD

[walker_boh_65]

lock the thread or something, because there is no way to compromise, on either side, so i think we should just leave this thread free of arguing and childish bickering, which so far has been, "its the law", "but we dont want to follow the law" and "we did it for ease", "but you broke the copyright (law)" so it is really in everyone best interest to drop it here and find a solution, without being a bunch of kids defending their side of a fight.

[Miner7747]

Goons have already made their move to buy off Al... Unfortunately, Alba make be caving into the money pressure... (I can't tell atm because industrial-net is giving me a DoS error...)

well,he's still just asking for advice... but the weight of
the money is starting to cave him in...
i checked earlier today and he is deciding between allowing it or not.
it seems he is leaning to the latter though :)

i'm getting the error too,this seems fishy...

[Shengji]

"To be honest I've never gotten the appeal of the Yogscast. Neither of them are particularly good at any of the games I've seen them play, they seem to do minimal work themselves, and have the kind of exuberant-idiot personalities I tend to associate with the Middle-School kids I can't help but want to punt."

I agree with you, as soon as I realised after the first few MC video's that it was all setup (I think the episode where they were pelted with arrows from a supposed stranger on their server) I didn't enjoy it, but you can't deny that they are hugely popular. No matter what we think of it personally, the fact that so many people do enjoy it speaks for itself - maybe they just get it and we don't! Either way, no matter how they get access to games to promote, and no matter how fun it is to watch them, they do give fair coverage to games which I have been interested in and I have been turned off by just as many as they turned me on to.

@Hiroprotagonist To be honest, if every person commenting on this from both sides had put their point across as honestly, frankly and non-inflammatory as you had, there would probably be absolutely no problem now. Sadly, looking at the comments in both that video and on either forums, people seem to be enjoying the conflict and relish the fight, not the cause. I'm happy to read your point of view here and as a reasonable voice I hope you are made welcome here for as long as you choose to stay - as after all, no matter how you got the mod, you are using it and can probably get a lot of fun from it.

[MagusUnion]

Goons have already made their move to buy off Al... Unfortunately, Alba make be caving into the money pressure... (I can't tell atm because industrial-net is giving me a DoS error...)

well,he's still just asking for advice... but the weight of
the money is starting to cave him in...
i checked earlier today and he is deciding between allowing it or not.
it seems he is leaning to the latter though :)

i'm getting the error too,this seems fishy...

DoS attack/error... either they are swarming the site now and are contacting him in some way outside of said site, or too many people are trying to access the wiki just to look up how to use Industrial Craft...

Logically, most would say the latter... but I wouldn't be too half surprised this is a goon-ish way to isolate Alba from others who can see the donations for what they really are..

[Miner7747]

Goons have already made their move to buy off Al... Unfortunately, Alba make be caving into the money pressure... (I can't tell atm because industrial-net is giving me a DoS error...)

well,he's still just asking for advice... but the weight of
the money is starting to cave him in...
i checked earlier today and he is deciding between allowing it or not.
it seems he is leaning to the latter though :)

i'm getting the error too,this seems fishy...

DoS attack/error... either they are swarming the site now and are contacting him in some way outside of said site, or too many people are trying to access the wiki just to look up how to use Industrial Craft...

Logically, most would say the latter... but I wouldn't be too half surprised this is a goon-ish way to isolate Alba from others who can see the donations for what they really are..

who knows,but there might have been some coordination.
it seems like all of the IC internet servers are down,yet they were fine recently.
it's very possible they're trying to isolate him...
maybe beacause adien did a very convincing comment just a while ago,and if i was alb,i'd instantly have made my mind.
they could have tried to isolate that from him.

[screally]

Going off on a bit of a tangent here, but I would really like to know if the following was possible:

Some kind of user-interface - nothing fancy, just something nice and simple - which is attached to forge. It will allow unpacking and block-ID allocation of any forge mods that are downloaded.

I don't know if this is even possible, let alone even explained well, so I'll try illustrate it with an example:

First you download modloader/forge. Then you want to download BTW, so you save the .jar folder somewhere. Then you run the UI from forge which detects the .jar (perhaps because you have saved it into a specific place) which will then unpack it and place it in your minecarft folder for you.

This would allow mods to be downloaded and isntalled individually, encourage forge compatibility, and also let all the morans have an official way of having their 5 minutes of fun with each of the modpacks.

Yes I am aware this is not what forge does (honestly I am not personally 100% clued in on what it does, only a vague understanding), but it could be bundled on with forge since this will encourage forge use.

[Urian]

@hiroprotagonist: That was actually a pretty good first post and probably the most well motivated argument for the Technic mod pack. I'll try to explain the situation as I see it and how come it's escalated so far.

Background
I believe that the situation got out of hand due to a number of factors with faults being made from three sides: the BTW and in part other mod communities, the SA community and the yogcast community. You are right that distribution control is one of the main reasons FC wants to have all downloads of BTW come from the links he provides (other reasons include avoiding problems when whoever is providing a modpack isn't up to date, troubleshooting etc. I can recommend watching this video where FC explains his reasons in greater detail, it starts at roughly 2:30). Despite this, there have been a number of modpacks that have included BTW without permission and while it has been removed from major sites such as PlanetMinecraft there are some minor sites where it has remained. FC stated before the dispute between this forum and SA that he had actually decided to let the Technic pack be since it was kept within a relatively small circle. It was when yogcast decided to use it that things took a turn for the worse. The situation with yogcast was particularly annoying since FC had already been in contact with them once before in June/July when Yogcast first had a spotlight on BTW and wanted to include it in the yogbox. FC clearly said then that he was not interested in having BTW in a modpack so when the yogcast now had a spotlight with a modpack containing several mods without permission it was perceived as the yogcast giving the mod community the finger.

Escalation
The responses from the three communities were, in a typical Internet fashion, quickly degrading into insults and name calling. I believe that all sides have intelligent and logical members who can make rational arguments for their point of view. Unfortunately there members were pretty much drowned out in the flood of certain yogcast (community) members not understanding how anyone could dislike what their idols do, certain BTW community members over reacting to the illegal (more on this later :p) use of their favorite mod and certain SA members/goons acting like spoiled brats thinking their entitled to get anything they want. The fact that SA got a particularly bad reputation on this forum is that Kaker was one of those acting like a spoiled brat, the readme in the modpack is a clear example of this, and thus he came in part to represent the image of the SA community as a whole. Much of these problems could probably have been avoided if Kaker had actually done the decent thing and explained his reasoning for making the modpack and asked permission to include the various mods.

Legality
Regarding the legal issue of mods and their use: I can't say for certain since the US legal system but I have studied intellectual property law in Scandinavia and if it follows the same principles (which it seems to do based on a quick google check :) ) then mod authors are indeed entitled to a copyright since there is a threshold of originality that can reasonably be perceived as fulfilled by the mods included in the modpack in question and is also probably significantly different from the content of "vanilla" Minecraft so that it can be considered a separate creation. Now, this is more or less the same legal issue that any form of piracy is concerned with and while it is hardly enough for any real legal action it is still an illegal action to spread these mods without permission from the authors.

Regarding your second post: That is a question I believe would be better suited for a discussion on moral philosophy (I believe we had a thread about it some time ago actually). What is legal and what is right can indeed be considered two different things but any person who can act in a mature fashion and take responsibility will probably also know what the distinction is in real life situations. As for it being a legally binding agreement; again I can't comment with any certainty on it outside Scandinavia but I do believe that it could be argued that you are using an illegal product (you've acquired it via an illegal source of which you cannot claim ignorance about the origin). Once more it's pretty much the same as downloading a pirated album/movie/game.

***

@walker_boh: this thread is here and will remain open for the time being since this is an issue that will most likely still be discussed and it's better to keep the discussion in one thread that having it spread all over the place.


Hopefully that covers everything, it's 3:10 am here so I'm a bit tired and might have forgotten something.

[walker_boh_65]

@walker_boh: this thread is here and will remain open for the time being since this is an issue that will most likely still be discussed and it's better to keep the discussion in one thread that having it spread all over the place.

fair enough now that we are going to have an intelligent discussion, because i personally would like to hear the other side explained fully and maturely (lets be honest, there is no hope from a intelligent explanation of the Yogcast side)

[MagusUnion]

BTW players: Ignore this...

Yeah, forum invasions are against the rules here. If the mods catch wind of someone doing that poo poo you get banned, and then you're $10 in the hole.

I still don't believe you...

[morvelaira]

My two cents on this, and it will be the only thing I say on the subject:

Being of a lawful alignment myself (I'll leave you to decide good/neutral/evil), what the modpack maker (KakerMix?) did was wrong. Given that it was done specifically for the folks of the Simply Awful forums, it wasn't worth getting upset about. I'd be a whole lot squeamish about it if the SA forums didn't have something along the lines of 15 thousand users, but... hey. It was meant to stay within a certain containment line, and I won't call someone for being an asshole in his own house. I'll just leave his house.

Now if that is where it ended I'm not even sure I would have even heard about this issue in the first place. But then the Yogscast picked it up. And by doing so, they showed that they don't care. Not about legalities, not about the feelings of those involved. Simon and Lewis do not care. KakerMix does not care. A majority of the people using the modpack do not care. Possibly some people here do not care either. Because of that, they cannot comprehend WHY we care so much. Why we are reacting as defensively as we are - and we are acting defensively.

Well, we're acting defensively because we care. Because this is our baby. FlowerChild may have created it, but it is the thing that gives us enjoyment, that makes us happy. We want to see it continue to flourish, to grow. Anything that threatens that... particularly by making FlowerChild feel so disheartened that he wants to give up the ghost entirely? That is unacceptable. Unless I find the gun from Hitchhiker's Guide that imparts empathy on the target, I can't do anything about the assholes in the world. I can, however, do everything to let FlowerChild know that I care, and that not everyone is like the assholes.

FlowerChild, I care. I enjoy the creation you've given to us, in all of it's intellectual and slightly twisted glory. I am grateful to you for the enjoyment that you have brought into my life through it. I will do everything in my power to support you in this endeavor, including clicking on that donate button once I spy it. I know anything else may get into the way, but if you name it and I can give it - it's yours. Have hope and confidence, and keep your sick sense of humor.

Also - if anyone is actually going to MineCon, think up a bombshell question to ask Simon and Lewis at their panel about why they hate the modding community. ;)


.... Okay. Maybe I gave you two dollars. Lucky you.

[hiroprotagonist]

I don't actually play with the technic pack, but that's because I installed most of those mods even before Kaker put the pack together (although I've first heard about 90% of the mods from the SA thread; it's put together well and despite SA's reputation, goons are incredibly helpful to each other).

Obviously I disagree with FCs policy about modpacks, but that's meaningless. It's just that the rule is inconvenient, unenforceable and impractical. For example, Eloraam(RedPower) has a sensible modpack policy

Mod Compilation Policy
I've had a couple requests recently to include my mod in compilation packs, so if you want to include one of my mods, here's the steps:
- You must tell me about it. Drop me an IM, or post on this thread.
- Proper credit and attribution. "RedPower by Eloraam", with a link to this thread, is a suitable example.
- Non-commercial, non-profit mod packs only. If you're going to bundle my mod, you can't use adf.ly or similar for the compilation pack. I'm OK with giving my work away, but not having someone else profit from it.

but she's also a nice person, and won't want to endorse a modpack that has BTW in it, because FC doesn't want to be part of any modpack. Now I'm faced with a choice, throw out BTW from the pack or just ignore the endorsement idea and share the modpack without permissions. BTW is part of a large group of independent mods, it doesn't live in a vacuum, and having such an exclusive attitude toward compilations is impractical and ends up affecting other moders as well.

[MagusUnion]

I don't actually play with the technic pack, but that's because I installed most of those mods even before Kaker put the pack together (although I've first heard about 90% of the mods from the SA thread; it's put together well and despite SA's reputation, goons are incredibly helpful to each other).

For them and their kin, maybe... but they fuck over everyone else just cuz... textbook nepotism to say the least...

Obviously I disagree with FCs policy about modpacks, but that's meaningless. It's just that the rule is inconvenient, unenforceable and impractical. For example, Eloraam(RedPower) has a sensible modpack policy

Mod Compilation Policy
I've had a couple requests recently to include my mod in compilation packs, so if you want to include one of my mods, here's the steps:
- You must tell me about it. Drop me an IM, or post on this thread.
- Proper credit and attribution. "RedPower by Eloraam", with a link to this thread, is a suitable example.
- Non-commercial, non-profit mod packs only. If you're going to bundle my mod, you can't use adf.ly or similar for the compilation pack. I'm OK with giving my work away, but not having someone else profit from it.

but she's also a nice person, and won't want to endorse a modpack that has BTW in it, because FC doesn't want to be part of any modpack. Now I'm faced with a choice, throw out BTW from the pack or just ignore the endorsement idea and share the modpack without permissions. BTW is part of a large group of independent mods, it doesn't live in a vacuum, and having such an exclusive attitude toward compilations is impractical and ends up affecting other moders as well.

Granted... but the fact that people would expect mod developers to just hand them the content so willy-nilly is also quite disrespectful from the community. It's unfair to expect the developer to just do EVERY SINGLE FUCKING THING for you JUST to play a 16 bit game.Yes, it takes a good bit of effort to get the slot ID's to not conflict, but it's part of 'work' involved (if you can even call it that...) for modding content, and it stems mostly from the fact that many people still don't understand that modding isn't some DLC file you can download from a network... it's more complicated than that...

Otherwise, posts like these will continue to be the norm:

I got a message from someone on youtube asking me how to install the modpack, saying I should make a video on how to do it.

You really want to make modding THAT convenient for these derps?