Hololens and its applications.... discuss

[LupusExMachina]

I do not want to derail the vanilla minecraft discussion so i start something new here.

What do you guys think the hololens will be used for? What kind of applications will we see? What "new" kinds of genres will arise?

I start with making some predictions for the gaming sector.
It is likely we will see a lot of games that go into the direction of what right now is tabletop. WH40K for example could be ported into an AR environment. Just like tabletop RPGs had its mechanics simulated by early PCs I assume there will be games that simulate classic tabletop games like d&d. Just in a closer version of actual tabletop. Most tools required have been shown with minecraft. The ability to build an environment and interact with it. The mechanics of a tactical turn based game should be portable without problems.

Another thing could be pokemon or card based games.
I think especially a game with the pokemon license, simulating a trainer fight up close could be a real seller for the system.

Of course, practical applications for architecture, CAD and other engineering and science tasks are the real boon. But well made games would be the way to get a big market going for the lens.
"I want the lens because of reasons or that 5000$ CAD program" will be said a lot less than "I absolutely need it because of Minecraft/Pokemon/insertawesomegame".
PCs became a big thing because of games. Going that road early with the lens might be a good strategy. Professionals will see its potential nevertheless.

[Wafflewaffle]

Its far too soon to say anything conclusive about it, but from the get go I think this is the best virtual reality/ motion control i have seen. The Ocullus rift and the kinects and whatever always interfaced 3D controls with 2D presentation or the other way around. The Hololens interfaces your 3d input with a 3d enviroment and that is fucking amazing. If the controls are responsive enough any genre with a top down view could work with it. City Builders, RTSs, God ganes, table top simulators, grand strategy game, the Sims, bloody cow clickers. You name it. Could you imagine playing a Total war game against a friend on a table?

Aside from games the implications are pretty brilliant as well. From animation and modeling, to real time simulations and crime scene investigations. This could be applied to movies and will no doubt be used for sports broadcasting. This could be the new our generation radio, a transformative way to view and interact with media. Or it could fall flat like a gimmicky microsoft attempt to make money. I for one am excited.

[Katalliaan]

I start with making some predictions for the gaming sector.
It is likely we will see a lot of games that go into the direction of what right now is tabletop. WH40K for example could be ported into an AR environment. Just like tabletop RPGs had its mechanics simulated by early PCs I assume there will be games that simulate classic tabletop games like d&d. Just in a closer version of actual tabletop. Most tools required have been shown with minecraft. The ability to build an environment and interact with it. The mechanics of a tactical turn based game should be portable without problems.

Tabletop Simulator is a good example of such a game - people have put together assets to play a wide variety of games in it, and it would be pretty sweet to see the virtual tabletop projected onto your physical table and be able to move things with your hands directly rather than by using a mouse.

[Gears]

Aside from games the implications are pretty brilliant as well. From animation and modeling, to real time simulations and crime scene investigations. This could be applied to movies and will no doubt be used for sports broadcasting. This could be the new our generation radio, a transformative way to view and interact with media. Or it could fall flat like a gimmicky microsoft attempt to make money. I for one am excited.

I'm actually going to have to disagree with the modeling and animation applications. Modelling solely in perspective views is arguably the most painful thing you can do with yourself. These things would make it even worse by removing the ability to snap to certain angles in your 'viewport', along with replacing the mouse's selection of the face/edge/vertex it's hovering over to the new 3D input of the Hololens. It might be like clay sculpting, but without a tangible object being sculpted, your depth perception becomes completely fucked, which will take more time getting used to than it's worth.

I've been working with the Oculus Rift since April, and it's good enough for gaming. The Hololens may be better than it is, but at the end of the day it's applications will seldom go beyond video games and simulations. And for now, it should stay that way.

[SterlingRed]

I agree, modeling purely in a 3d view like that is exceedingly difficult. And there's no way the hololens can capture the tool pallet and precise dimensional control required for finished designs through gestures alone.

I think the first application is going to be advertising and demonstrating a design or something to a client. Following that, I think it could be useful in concept design and design collaboration. I'm sure some artists will pick this up and figure out how to make an exhibit out of it as well.
Although microsoft is targeting the gamers with their demos, I honestly think gaming won't be the first application. I could be wrong, especially if Hasboro makes a license deal for example. I bet this would work pretty well with board games, adding in animated action sequences, rolling dice for you, keeping score, etc.

[FlowerChild]

I think the first application is going to be advertising and demonstrating a design or something to a client.

If you think it's going to be anything other than porn or games, I think you may have far too much faith in humanity ;)

[SterlingRed]

If you think it's going to be anything other than porn or games, I think you may have far too much faith in humanity ;)

That's fair. It could be executed even terribly in the porn industry and it'd still be a hit...

Seems to me advertisers /corporations have the $ to pay for demo models. Consumers would too, but this thing ain't gonna be cheap so a lot of people are going to want to see it being used before grabbing it at more than likely a higher list price than Oculus. But MS has been targeting more consumers than corporations the last 5 years so I could be wrong. Maybe just part of me hopes it has design applications first so that I can somehow convince my boss that we need one at work.

[FlowerChild]

That's fair. It could be executed even terribly in the porn industry and it'd still be a hit...

And ultimately that will be a good thing if it serves to drive the price of the technology downwards through mass production and further development.

Plus, I can't say I entirely object to the concept of coming home to attractive people having sex on my sofa :)

[MoRmEnGiL]

Am I old school, or just old or something? Because I find zero appeal to the whole thing. Occulus rift didn't interest me, this doesn't, I don't watch movies in 3D and I find the entire "vr" thing the entertainment industry seems to be exploring a waste of time..

And I am a william gibson fan too!

[FlowerChild]

Am I old school, or just old or something?

Well, I personally welcome you to join me in shouting for kids to get off our lawns any day :)

[jorgebonafe]

Well, movies in 3D generally suck, IMO. But if general opinion is to be believed VR is a whole other deal. Anyway, I'm looking forward to trying it out at least.

[Gears]

I think the first application is going to be advertising and demonstrating a design or something to a client.

If you think it's going to be anything other than porn or games, I think you may have far too much faith in humanity ;)

To be fair, the first thing I did when I got the Oculus was download a dozen plus porn games for science. It wasn't until a day later that I found out Half Life had an Oculus mode.

[MoRmEnGiL]

Well, I personally welcome you to join me in shouting for kids to get off our lawns any day :)

Young whippersnappers.. :P

But really, the glasses for 3d movies is ok I guess, it's dark in the theaters :P But having a huge vr set on my head for protracted periods of time not only makes me feel like a fool, it feels very uncomfortable. Plus I do not really think it adds much tbh. It enhances looks sure, but I don't think "better looks" is what the entire entertainment industry is lacking..

[jorgebonafe]

Its probably less about looks and more about immersion...

[Stormweaver]

Its probably less about looks and more about immersion...

Another axis of control always helps too - biggest thing I'm looking forward to with VR (besides porn) is just being able to twist/tilt my head when looking at things, instead of rotating the whole character.

[FlowerChild]

Another axis of control always helps too - biggest thing I'm looking forward to with VR (besides porn) is just being able to twist/tilt my head when looking at things, instead of rotating the whole character.

You say "besides porn" and then still seem to be talking about porn anyways.

[Stormweaver]

Another axis of control always helps too - biggest thing I'm looking forward to with VR (besides porn) is just being able to twist/tilt my head when looking at things, instead of rotating the whole character.

You say "besides porn" and then still seem to be talking about porn anyways.

Touche.

[MoRmEnGiL]

Yeah I clump all these things under the general label "looks" :P

Immersion is more of a mental thing for me, dunno. Being able to have the game world "come to life" does nothing for my immersion in it, if said world doesn't intrigue me without the gimmicks. And if it does, said gimmicks do not add much for me. The prospect of seeing my minecraft world in full VR 3d whatever sounds exhilarating for the first few minutes, and then after the initial cool factor wears off and I want to go back to regular play, it just gets in the way.

As I said, this is probably just me. I just think that if companies spent money on good designers, writers and game concepts instead, the game industry would be much better off. Can't really comment on visual arts, I never liked watching movies in 3d, so yeah. Where I do see applications for all the vr tech everyone seems to be investing in, is in developing new computer interfaces. Maybe one day we will have a full 3d interface that will make designing 3d graphics or teaching anatomy or similar things much easier, but I am not holding my breath, we still have a ways to go.

[Gilberreke]

I've wanted VR since I was a kid, it just makes me happy to know that I'll soon get to try it properly. First VR kit I wore was in '95 or so, to play DOOM.

Just so we're on the same page btw, Hololens is not VR, right? It's AR from what I've seen. The two use similar technologies but are completely different otherwise imo.

[LupusExMachina]

As far aa I can tell AR is superior to VR as VR is a subset of AR. You should be able to emulate VR with the hololens by blacking out the view to the real world and display only the virtual components in your view. I don‘t think hololens is designed to do that, but it should be able to without redesigning the hardware from 0.

[Katalliaan]

IMO, VR and AR are similar, but one isn't a subset of another. Just like you could theoretically block out your vision and use an AR device for VR, you could mount cameras to the front of a VR device and layer things over what they show for AR. In fact, that's essentially what Microsoft does for the Hololens demos - their specialty cameras overlay the AR scene onto the video they're capturing, and a quick Google search brings up a product that's meant to be added to an Oculus Rift to do just that.

[LupusExMachina]

IMO, VR and AR are similar, but one isn't a subset of another. Just like you could theoretically block out your vision and use an AR device for VR, you could mount cameras to the front of a VR device and layer things over what they show for AR. In fact, that's essentially what Microsoft does for the Hololens demos - their specialty cameras overlay the AR scene onto the video they're capturing, and a quick Google search brings up a product that's meant to be added to an Oculus Rift to do just that.

Thing is, to make the hololens a VR device you have to block or deactivate functions present in the hardware while adding none. When you want to make a VR device into an AR device, you have to add hardware functions. This makes VR functionality a subset of the hololens functionality. The other way around that is not the case.

[Gilberreke]

It's not that simple. Like I said, hardware wise there's indeed a major overlap. The difference is in software and specialization. Companies specialize in one of the other. Writing a software platform that specializes in visual fidelity of a VR experience is about completely different things than a software platform focusing on video tracking in an AR experience.

I'm thinking we will see small devices like google glass focusing on AR. The devices will be unobtrusive and all about utility. They will augment and automate daily tasks. Entertainment will just be a small part of it. There's billions of bucks to be earned and companies focusing on AR want the keyword to be ubiquitous. This technology ties into the idea of putting screens and CPU's in every item we use daily. An example is domotica, which ties in perfectly into the experience. Your oven is roasting a chicken. When you look at it with the AR glasses, an overlay appears, giving you some exact information about cooking times, temperatures and a small reminder of the recipe. You walk into the other room and 40 minutes later, a reminder appears that you should go get the chicken.

VR is completely different. It's the ultimate form of entertainment, it doesn't care about utility, it doesn't even need to be practical. As a consumer, you pay lots of money for the latest, greatest way of escapism. There is money to be earned, but not even nearly as much as in AR. Companies offer dedicated products. The technology ties into other entertainment technologies, such as your audio system, netflix account and your controller (which will probably be a motion capture device like a Kinect). Technologies only hit mainstream in specific cases, like 3D movies, which is arguably a VR technology or close to it.

As you can tell, the differences are large enough that most companies won't do both. The devices are also completely different, the profit model is different. The technology and research are similar, so you will see some cross-polination. Finally, AR is here right now. I know of at least 5 startup companies doing AR in the hicksville area around me. VR is a twinkle in Carmack's eyes mostly.