7 Days To Die: Better Than Giant Bees Mod

[DerAlex]

FC, one little bug we found today: One of the new labeled crates, the one which needs a crossbow bolt to built, cannot be built in BTGB because, well, crossbow bolt.

In other news, we survived the day 7 horde. Really really intense night, fun as hell. We are on the lookout for a good building spot now since I found the plank book. I was killed by my team mate accidentally, who fucked around with a torch in broad daylight and set me on fire while I walked past him unnowingly. I didn't survive the first attempt at regrouping ether, because dogs, and I'm down to 47 wellness again. Business as usual.

We got our second airdrop today. 1 single pistol gunpart. So ether they really really REALL got nerfed somewhere between A8 and A10, or you did nerf the drops from the beginning just to troll people ;)

Still enjoying the crap out of the mod. And you where 100% right about the planks. The scavenging nomad phase before you can built anything is really fun and I wouldn't want to miss it in my next game. Maybe apart from not being able to place any containers, but overall, yeah, you where right.

I also really like the new recipes for cloth, club and spiked club, sadly we are way past that point in progression.

[FlowerChild]

FC, one little bug we found today: One of the new labeled crates, the one which needs a crossbow bolt to built, cannot be built in BTGB because, well, crossbow bolt.

Good point. Will fix.

Still enjoying the crap out of the mod. And you where 100% right about the planks. The scavenging nomad phase before you can built anything is really fun and I wouldn't want to miss it in my next game. Maybe apart from not being able to place any containers, but overall, yeah, you where right.

Glad to hear it man :)

Yeah, I'm still deep in the scavenging phase myself in my current game (after restarting many time as I adjusted the very early stuff), testing out skill book availability after I added a bunch of them to help break up the progression further. Finally figured out how to add new items cleanly after a seeing a few helpful posts on the 7 Days forums.

I'm also enjoying the nomadic scavenging phase a hell of a lot. It really feels like a whole other game.

[Ethazeriel]

I just bought 7DTD during the steam sale. All I know about it is what I've read on the forums here. Would you recommend starting with the mod straight off, or should I play the vanilla game first to get a feel for the mechanics?

[FlowerChild]

I just bought 7DTD during the steam sale. All I know about it is what I've read on the forums here. Would you recommend starting with the mod straight off, or should I play the vanilla game first to get a feel for the mechanics?

Same answer as for BTW or BTSM man: if you wish you would have started playing MC with BTW installed, then start with BTGB installed ;)

Or, put another way: are you the kind of person that sets a game to easy difficulty to begin with when you start playing it, or do you just dive straight in?

Personally, I would have preferred to have started with something like this installed right from the get go.

[Ethazeriel]

I've always made a point of starting games on the default settings, hoping that's what the game's been balanced around. I tend to enjoy getting the shit kicked out of me in games, so I'll start it up and give it a try tonight.

Thanks for the mods, as always :)

[DerAlex]

Fuck...

http://7daystodie.com/alpha-10-2-patch-is-out/

No BTGB for us today. Came out literally 3 minutes before we wanted to start playing, a few minutes ago. And apparently, never update is not a thing with 7DTD.

Changelog

Spoiler

Show

Added
•Added Custom icon color tinting property for item icons
•Added murky water can now be collected in old empty cans you find everywhere.
•Added canned murky water can be boiled on a stick in the campfire. Canned water has a stack limit of one since there is no lid to the container and it is meant for basic survival in the wild with primitive means until a cooking pot can be obtained
•Added canned water can be turned into scrap metal
•Added Forge Ahead Book icon
•Added items and icons for red, brown, and black denim pants

Changed
•Changed it so torches can be placed anywhere like before
•Changed it so breaking a wall torch drops nothing
•Changed log to not contain any passwords
•Changed log on startup when parsing serverconfig fails
•Changed concrete dries slower
•Changed log to not contain any passwords
•Changed log on startup when parsing serverconfig fails
•Changed removed recipe for wall bracket, it is no longer needed
•Changed the forge is now gated by an easy to find book called “Forge Ahead”. So you won’t be able to make a forge until you find this book.
•Changed planted trees now only grow on ground with a fertile level > 0
•Changed updated EAC files
•Changed prefab menu is now only accessible in edit or debug mode
•Changed increased heat map settings for animal gore
•Changed the particle effects on the forge, campfire and torches for better performance
•Changed the forest biome decorations for better performance
•Changed UMA-based screen checking for dedicated servers to disabled
•Changed removed command “spawnwanderinghorde”
•Changed ranger station prefab xml so it can appear in random gen in the wilderness in all biomes
•Changed air drops now drop military weapons and parts, rare books and valued medicines
•Changed lowered weight of reinforced metal siding
•Changed torches so they can be picked up once placed on a wall and fixed translation

Fixed
•Fixed player texture rebuilding when swapping resolution and/or fullscreen
•Fixed tallow recipe, 1 animal fat makes 1 tallow in 10 seconds
•Fixed reading doubles from files independent of locale
•Fixed error when opening creative menu when there are no group files
•Fix map not loading bug
•Fixed Null ref in HandleDirtyUpdate
•Fixed texture rebuild was happening when window was not in focus instead of waiting
•Fixed EAC was not used on dedicated servers since 10.1
•Fixed server browser does not show favorites + history servers if they are not public
•Fixed 3rd person body colliders for better hit detection of projectile weapons
•Fixed missing sniper rifle trigger housing mold recipe
•Fixed Animator.GotoState errors on hatches
•Fixed NullRefException in GameManager.RequestToSpawnPlayer()
•Fixed problem that zombie dog was hard to hit
•Fixed problems with Navezgane Diersville basements and overlapping light poles at gas stations
•Fixed the prefab menu is longer accessible in normal game modes
•Fixed forge producing NullRef when first firing up
•Fixed zombie cop attacking and animation broken
•Fixed Alpha channel for crafting output was being overridden by custom tint
•Fixed Alpha channel for crafting preview was being overridden by custom tint
•Fixed Alpha channel for campfire output preview was being overridden by custom tint
•Fixed Alpha channel for forge output preview was being overridden by custom tint
•Fixed splint buff never goes away
•Fixed icons and translations for all pants and tanktops

[FlowerChild]

No BTGB for us today. Came out literally 3 minutes before we wanted to start playing, a few minutes ago.

Already working on the update. Will have something for you shortly :)

[Renegrade]

Already working on the update. Will have something for you shortly :)

You sir, are an updating machine!

Looks like you have a new book item for your nefarious, tentacled plans now too :)

BTW, if it wasn't clear from my previous posts, BTGB has definitely improved the playability of 7DTD enormously for me. Thanks man :)

@DerAlex: If 7DTD is ignoring the update flag, you could opt-in to the "beta" of the version of your choice (10.1), which should pin your installation to that version. (7DTD's installation is um, less desirable than KSP's, I must say)

[FlowerChild]

You sir, are an updating machine!

Well...I booted up Steam and all of a sudden noticed that 7 Days was updating and threatening to overwrite all the changes I've made since last release.

Luckily, I was able to dive to cancel the update before the files in question were touched, but it sure did light a fire under my ass :)

@DerAlex: If 7DTD is ignoring the update flag, you could opt-in to the "beta" of the version of your choice (10.1), which should pin your installation to that version. (7DTD's installation is um, less desirable than KSP's, I must say)

Man, I don't think it's just 7 Days. As far as I can tell, Steam has removed the option to disable updates entirely some time in the past week or so. The best you can do now is tell it to only update when you run the game.

[FlowerChild]

[**** NEW RELEASE ****]

Version 1.12 of Better Than Giant Bees is ready for download!

Download Link

This release contains the following changes:

-Updated the mod to Alpha 10.2 of 7 Days To Die.

-Added a few new skill books which help break up the progression a bit more. These are using stock skill book icons mind you, so be sure to hover your mouse over skill books to see what they actually contain.

-Added fried eggs as a new item that can be cooked up on a grill. Unfortunately, they still look like hard boiled eggs, but I assure you that's simply a hallucination brought on by radiation exposure. I added these because at a certain point, smashing your glass jars like a manly man every time you boil an egg gets rather old, and by the time you put together a grill, water supply is generally not an issue anymore.

-Changed (increased) the chance of finding skill books in book cases slightly, since there are now more types of them to find in total.

-Changed the weapon storage crate recipe to use a sharp stone instead of a crossbow bolt, since bolts can't be made in BTGB.

-Changed (reduced) the chance of eggs being found in nests to help balance the addition of fried eggs and make them a slightly less reliable food source.

-Changed (reduced) the time it takes to open "cracked" safes since the idea there is that they're already busted open, whereas in stock I assume it's supposed to represent the time it takes you to pick the lock.

-Fixed a bunch of blocks that were still dropping block items upon destruction that I had missed previously (a bunch that dropped old wood, and fridges in particular).

-Fixed the names on "Cracked" safes so that they look less like internal variable names when you are prompted to open them.

-Removed the ability to use toilets as a water source as that just provides an easy water supply in the wasteland biome, and doesn't go well with the many decorative options that they provide.

Enjoy! :)

[VegasGoat]

Thanks for the quick update! I broke my no more early access rule and picked up 7 days for 50% off and was looking forward to trying BTGB tonight.

My first day of jumping right in with BTGB was less than stellar. I died a few times just figuring out the controls and browsing recipes, because I didn't realize I had spawned in a wasteland and there were zombies everywhere sneaking up on me while I was messing around. The geiger noises should have been a hint to GTFO, so my bad on that one. Took me a while to figure out where to get sticks but I finally did get a stone axe. Sadly, my time ended when it got dark and I hadn't found any food or shelter, so I'll probably just start a new world for the next session. I should do a little better since I will be able to get an axe more quickly. Seems like that's the first important step.

Anyway, so far so good, I'm definitely enjoying the challenge and learning to survive.

[FlowerChild]

Seems like that's the first important step.

Yeah, making a stone axe is pretty much the "punch wood" of 7 Days. Absolutely the first thing you want to be working on.

My usual spawn routine is:

-Pick up rock, drop it in crafting grid to start making sharp rock while I do other stuff.
-Punch bush to get stick.
-Use stick to clear grass.
-Make fibers when I have 9 grass.
-Loot nearby containers (garbage, nests, etc.) while fiber is crafting.
-Craft axe.
-Start moving, looting, and looking for shelter, whacking bushes and grass along the way with axe to start working towards a club.

Probably takes me less than a minute to get the axe rolling and start moving. If you spawn in the wasteland, running like hell until you're out of it becomes the much higher priority :)

[BinoAl]

Heh. Took a look at the 7DTD forum thread, and it appears you've gone full circle!

Got it up and running on my server and love love love it. I would like to re enable the bed spawns though, is this difficult to do?

This sounds entirely too familiar... ;)

[devak]

Heh. Took a look at the 7DTD forum thread, and it appears you've gone full circle!

Got it up and running on my server and love love love it. I would like to re enable the bed spawns though, is this difficult to do?

This sounds entirely too familiar... ;)

I laughed way too hard when i read this :D

They should create a gaming police, and every time a developer adds beds as a respawn feature, they bust in, and punch the dev in the face.

[Renegrade]

Well...I booted up Steam and all of a sudden noticed that 7 Days was updating and threatening to overwrite all the changes I've made since last release.

Luckily, I was able to dive to cancel the update before the files in question were touched, but it sure did light a fire under my ass :)

Oh ouch, that would have sucked if Steam had steamrollered the unreleased changes. I really hate having to redo code or data that had already been input..

Man, I don't think it's just 7 Days. As far as I can tell, Steam has removed the option to disable updates entirely some time in the past week or so. The best you can do now is tell it to only update when you run the game.

I was actually referring to the KSP Store version of KSP (although Steam getting dumbed down in that manner is just par for the course--welcome to Console Steam) - it's just a big zip file (.tar.gz for Linux version) that you unroll anywhere, and if you don't use the included mini-launcher, then it never updates itself. It's the one thing Squad did perfectly: KSP has no registry garbage, does not use absolute paths and avoids that hideous InstallShield crap, and all the content (both Squad and user created) exists in that same directory tree for easy moving/backing up.

Speaking of KSP installation style... I wonder if 7DTD would continue to work if I copied it to a new path somewhere? Obviously it would use the same set of saves still (my documents\7 Days to Die\blahblah), but at least it wouldn't self-update. The 10.2 update killed my BTGB installation, which would have been bad for my save if I had loaded it with a vanilla install. An external, outside-of-steams-evil-reach version would be safe from that at least...

Anyhow, thanks for the update again, downloading now :)

-Punch bush to get stick.

Note to any new BTGB players: The bushes that give sticks come in a variety of appearances, most of them are dark brown in color, but the forest biome has an additional small-sized green bush that also gives sticks (and relatively few of the dark bushes).

[VegasGoat]

Note to any new BTGB players: The bushes that give sticks come in a variety of appearances, most of them are dark brown in color, but the forest biome has an additional small-sized green bush that also gives sticks (and relatively few of the dark bushes).

So I guess that means the brown ones can be broken by punching them? I assumed they couldn't because they make a thud sound instead of the whoosh sound when punched. That would make things a lot easier... I was running around looking for the little green bushes thinking I couldn't break the brown ones. <-- Haha noob.

[FlowerChild]

Oh ouch, that would have sucked if Steam had steamrollered the unreleased changes. I really hate having to redo code or data that had already been input..

Hehe...yeah man, it almost gave me flashbacks to my old Vic20 programming days there ;)

Made sure to put a system in place yesterday of making regular backups between releases to ensure that doesn't happen again :)

Anyhow, thanks for the update again, downloading now :)

No worries :)

So I guess that means the brown ones can be broken by punching them? I assumed they couldn't because they make a thud sound instead of the whoosh sound when punched. That would make things a lot easier... I was running around looking for the little green bushes thinking I couldn't break the brown ones. <-- Haha noob.

As an aside related to this: one rather alarming thing I discovered about 7 Days with the extended modding capabilities available, is that ANY tool can harvest ANY material in the game, and this includes your fist.

For example, even Tungsten (the hardest thing in the game I believe) can eventually be harvested if you beat on it with your fist long enough (I actually had a comment from a guy who said he beat a safe with his fist for 3 days straight to "crack" it). The only thing that changes with better tools is the rate.

This made rebalancing certain things like the stone axe rather difficult, and is what motivated me removing the iron drops from boulders entirely. I couldn't entirely believe it when I first noticed it in the configs, so I stood there for awhile beating a boulder with a stick until it harvested iron :P

I laughed way too hard when i read this :D

Hehe...I kinda just stared at it in disbelief for awhile, running through the different options in my mind, before saying "fuck it" and posting how to disable it ;)

I tried man. I intentionally labeled the mod as being about "Hardcore Survival" so that people know what they're getting into, but I guess even when people think they want a hardcore survival mod, they don't necessarily really do.

[Renegrade]

So I guess that means the brown ones can be broken by punching them? I assumed they couldn't because they make a thud sound instead of the whoosh sound when punched. That would make things a lot easier... I was running around looking for the little green bushes thinking I couldn't break the brown ones. <-- Haha noob.

Yep! As FC says below, all things can be harvested by fist ...eventually :)

And don't feel bad, it took me forever and a half to realize that the little green bushes were giving sticks instead of grass ;)

(Note also that wooden tools like a stick or a wooden club won't make noise against certain targets like grass -- it's still working, just isn't making sound)

Hehe...yeah man, it almost gave me flashbacks to my old Vic20 programming days there ;)

Made sure to put a system in place yesterday of making regular backups between releases to ensure that doesn't happen again :)

C64 for me, but yeah, that would definitely give me the same feelin'.

Glad to hear there's backups now though. :)

This made rebalancing certain things like the stone axe rather difficult, and is what motivated me removing the iron drops from boulders entirely. I couldn't entirely believe it when I first noticed it in the configs, so I stood there for awhile beating a boulder with a stick until it harvested iron :P

Yep! I have to admit I drilled into a few desk/wall safes in 1.111 to get me kickstarted on books (bookshelves hate me--I had five copies of Hunting Knife, and nothing else)... takes literally 6-ish in-game hours with the stone axe, but is well worth it :)

I suspect this might not be an intended usage heh...

And yeah, that lines up with my understanding of 7DTD's design. While a tool has an intended set of materials it's "good" against, that just means it's faster (relatively speaking) on that material..not that it will destroy instead of harvesting etc.

I tried man. I intentionally labeled the mod as being about "Hardcore Survival" so that people know what they're getting into, but I guess even when people think they want a hardcore survival mod, they don't necessarily really do.

They just don't get that in order to have feelings of success and triumph, you first must have a feeling of struggle and difficulty... one day, when they're all grown up and not twelve anymore, they'll figure it out. Maybe. :/

[FlowerChild]

C64 for me, but yeah, that would definitely give me the same feelin'.

Yup, almost identical with the C64, which I graduated to awhile after.

However, not sure I can ever really consider you a manly man if you haven't programmed with 3K of ram and a cassette tape drive ;)

They just don't get that in order to have feelings of success and triumph, you first must have a feeling of struggle and difficulty... one day, when they're all grown up and not twelve anymore, they'll figure it out. Maybe. :/

Hehe...I remember having a conversation with Icy recently (I think it might have been in a 7 Days video) about how I'm beginning to think more and more that most people only want something difficult up to the point where it doesn't kick their ass personally. Soon as it's too difficult *for them*, at their current skill level, then they consider it to be unfair.

So, in other words, for the majority of players, they just want something slightly under their particular skill level, as it makes them feel all the more uber, and they can then lord that over others ;)

Personally, I want a game to kick my ass a few times before I can get good at it. Otherwise there just doesn't seem to be much point in playing, and as you point out above, any victories you experience are entirely hollow.

[DerAlex]

Our playthrou is now at dawn of day 14. We are now very much self sustained, we started a mine, build a small fort and a farm. I propably don't have any more useful information for you, maybe apart from the fact that I'm pretty sure that you can farm without any nearby water sorce. It seems to be really slow, but it definitely grows. If this is intended and/or changeable I don't know.

Everything seems to be working just fine! I like the fact that it is impossible to feed 3 ppl on 50% loot with found food alone. Hunting and farming is required to survive, as it should be. I never EVER had a farm in 7DTD before!

We found, I think, all biomes, except for the desert, which means no aloe cream, but we are managing regardless, given we have a surplus of painkillers. I think we have about 40 left between us, so the droprate could be nerfed here, especcially from zombies.

We even found a beaker :D. We didn't unlock everything yet, for example, no antibiotics, no tea, no sniper rifle, no magnum, no smg, and sadly no metal armor yet. But we have enough working guns (Hunting Rifles/Pistols) and ammo to survive pretty much indefinetly, and the farm is coming up nicely.

We are pretty much at the point where 7DTD starts to get boring. So, to spice things up, I started reading throu the xml-files a bit. Thank you for commenting the changes you made, that alone is better than many tutorials! I have a hand full of questions a question for you:

1)

For funsies, I want to make a few things "pick-uppable" on our server, like the big screen TV, various lamps (torches seem to cause lag in MP, as does the forge), and maybe a few other things, only for decoration. Mailboxes, curtains, blinds, medicine cabinets, trash cans etc. Just for this playthrou, I don't want to start a new game with that, since it breaks progression with the containers.

I was looking throu the XML files a bit, knowing that you did just that with the toilet. This is the toilet part of "blocks.xml", I will give each line a number in front:

Code: Select all

0  -<block name="toilet01" id="434">
1     <!-- FCMOD: Change <property name="Material" value="metal_weak" /> -->
2     <property name="Material" value="toilet"/>
3     <!-- END FCMOD -->
4     <property name="Shape" value="Ext3dModel"/>
5     <property name="Mesh" value="models"/>
6     <property name="Texture" value="282"/>
7     <property name="Model" value="Plumbing/toilet01" param1="main_mesh"/>
8     <!-- FCMOD: Removed so that toilets drop toilets upon destruction <drop event="Destroy" name="shortMetalPipe" count="1" /> END FCMOD -->
9     <property name="Group" value="Furniture/Decor"/>
10 </block>

I assume that line 8 is what makes them not break anymore. But why line 2? The material "toilet" is defined by you in "materials.xml", but just out of curiosity, why did you change it from "metal_weak"? The difference seems to be "stability_glue", which sadly is not explained in the xml. What does it do?

If I want to make the various lamps in the game "pick-uppable", does removal of the line "drop event="Destroy"" do the job or do I have to define a new material with a corresponding new line in "materials.xml"?

2)

In "items.xml", The football helmet, ATM is not repairable. Would adding this work?

-<item id="408" name="footballHelmet" hold_type="7" repair_tools="metalStrips" mesh_file="Items/Clothing/Head/fb_helmet" stacknumber="1" material="cloth">
Edit: I can test this myself, no need to bother you with it....

Thanks in advance!

[Renegrade]

However, not sure I can ever really consider you a manly man if you haven't programmed with 3K of ram and a cassette tape drive ;)

I picked up a cassette drive (the 1530/C2N) a while ago during a nostalgia binge, but yeah, I was all easy-mode with 38k ;)

Actually I might have used a tape back in the day as well from time to time, most of my early experiences were on computers that the local school would lend out.

Really was a different time...

Hehe...I remember having a conversation with Icy recently (I think it might have been in a 7 Days video) about how I'm beginning to think more and more that most people only want something difficult up to the point where it doesn't kick their ass personally. Soon as it's too difficult *for them*, at their current skill level, then they consider it to be unfair.

Yeah, I recall that conversation (it was in a 7DTD video, which are awesome, FYI), and I agree. It may even be worse than that -- there's some massive whining going on about the damned "Forge Ahead" book. I dropped a bomb on that thread (heavily edited from my original, "you are all failures and need to uninstall" post) as it's just too pathetic. It seems like they want to play a game that's far, far, far below their skill level (either that or they really ARE massive scrublords heh)... maybe I should make a sarcastic mod where the different sorts of garbage bags spawn full stacks of venison stew, iron ingots, pre-cut logs, rebar frames, sniper rifles and huge piles of "762" ammo.

Personally, I want a game to kick my ass a few times before I can get good at it. Otherwise there just doesn't seem to be much point in playing, and as you point out above, any victories you experience are entirely hollow.

Yeah, the kick-my-ass-at-first measure is probably a good meterstick for challenge level. I think you've got that well in hand for BTW and BTSM, and BTGB is coming along very nicely in that respect.

Speaking of giant bees, it seems like they aren't very aggressive anymore, day or night (in Vanilla and BTGB).. not sure what's going on there (aside from my ears bleeding from the endless droning...)

[Taleric]

Instead of dealing with all this belly aching devs should provide a mode that completely patronizes the scrubs. Keep normal as their vision and label a mode weak, easy, children what have you so every time is comes up it can be pointed to as the answer. Players will migrate to more challenging play if they have it in them.

Ofcourse they could just stick to one level of play but you gotta have balls of steel. Make me wonder how titles like darksouls (1) remained uncompromising yet drew wide support (burden of early access?)

I did have a bee spawn with a horde that quickly disappeared but the wasteland ones are still pretty aggressive :P

[FlowerChild]

Our playthrou is now at dawn of day 14. We are now very much self sustained, we started a mine, build a small fort and a farm.

Yeah, I'm at Day 14 myself in my current save actually, and am not even close to where you guys are right now. Still scavenging. Know how to make pottery, leather armor, and a couple of other small tid bits. Have a hunting knife and a single hunting rifle. Ammunition supplies are very low in general, and while I'm trying to reserve my rounds for hunting, my reserves are starting to be pressured by the spider zombies which started spawning after Day 7 as I often don't want to risk them summoning hordes if I get too close.

I suspect that having multiple people probably acts somewhat akin to a direct multiplier to how quickly you can get things done since you can spread out and scavenge multiple areas.

And yes, I agree that there comes a point in a save in 7 Days where things just get very ho-hum as there just isn't a hell of a lot more to do once you have a self-sufficient base going.

I propably don't have any more useful information for you, maybe apart from the fact that I'm pretty sure that you can farm without any nearby water sorce. It seems to be really slow, but it definitely grows. If this is intended and/or changeable I don't know.

Yeah, that's stock, and unfortunately I do not think it can be changed on my end.

We found, I think, all biomes, except for the desert, which means no aloe cream, but we are managing regardless, given we have a surplus of painkillers. I think we have about 40 left between us, so the droprate could be nerfed here, especcially from zombies.

Hehe...I actually already nerfed their drop rate for next release, as I was building a massive stockpile of them as well :)

We even found a beaker :D. We didn't unlock everything yet, for example, no antibiotics, no tea, no sniper rifle, no magnum, no smg, and sadly no metal armor yet. But we have enough working guns (Hunting Rifles/Pistols) and ammo to survive pretty much indefinetly, and the farm is coming up nicely.

I've got a system in place that makes finding rare books more reliable for next release involving the "cracking" safes, as yeah, those bits were way too random, and I didn't like how you'd randomly wind up getting "advanced" books mixed in with the basic ones at start, when they are largely useless.

We are pretty much at the point where 7DTD starts to get boring. So, to spice things up, I started reading throu the xml-files a bit. Thank you for commenting the changes you made, that alone is better than many tutorials!

Well, keep in mind that the comments are there for my own use. When I consider changes to be self-documenting, as in when *I* would immediately understand what they mean just by looking at them, I generally don't comment them. So, don't thank me as I wasn't being kind there to anyone other than myself ;)

I assume that line 8 is what makes them not break anymore. But why line 2? The material "toilet" is defined by you in "materials.xml", but just out of curiosity, why did you change it from "metal_weak"? The difference seems to be "stability_glue", which sadly is not explained in the xml. What does it do?

That's the part I mentioned in the change log a little while ago about toilets falling if you place them in mid-air against a wall or something. It basically means you can't build sideways with them.

If I want to make the various lamps in the game "pick-uppable", does removal of the line "drop event="Destroy"" do the job or do I have to define a new material with a corresponding new line in "materials.xml"?

Well, best bet is to always look at the definition of a block that does the same thing you want to do. Like, if you want to pickup on space, take a look at the Aloe plant. If you want it to drop the block itself on destroy, any of the blocks I modified to not do that will provide a reference ;)

But yeah, removing the drop event Destroy thingy causes the block to revert to default behavior, which is to drop itself on destruction.

Yeah, I recall that conversation (it was in a 7DTD video, which are awesome, FYI), and I agree. It may even be worse than that -- there's some massive whining going on about the damned "Forge Ahead" book. I dropped a bomb on that thread (heavily edited from my original, "you are all failures and need to uninstall" post) as it's just too pathetic.

Hehe...ok, excuse me while I go look that up...

Bah, you freaking out is almost polite in tone :)

That thread wasn't so bad actually. I was expecting non-stop whining, but there's a fair proportion of players they say they like the change and only one guy that really seems to be saying he wants to be able to do absolutely everything from the start of the game, which is really what not having the forge book unlock amounts to.

Speaking of giant bees, it seems like they aren't very aggressive anymore, day or night (in Vanilla and BTGB).. not sure what's going on there (aside from my ears bleeding from the endless droning...)

Yeah, I've noticed that too. They tend to hover a lot more and often don't come in for an attack. I haven't changed anything, and I only have .xml files for them from Alpha 10, so I can't tell if anything was changed in there my the pimps.

[Renegrade]

Hehe...ok, excuse me while I go look that up...

Bah, you freaking out is almost polite in tone :)

Yeah, Toronto might be the Big Apple of Canada, but there's still standards of politeness that have to be met :). I edited out all of the "failures that need to uninstall" and "grow a pair" and such comments before finally submitting, hehe.

That thread wasn't so bad actually. I was expecting non-stop whining, but there's a fair proportion of players they say they like the change and only one guy that really seems to be saying he wants to be able to do absolutely everything from the start of the game, which is really what not having the forge book unlock amounts to.

I reread that thread, and yeah, there are lots of moderate or approving posts of "Forge Gate". It's just that the whiny ones really stand out with some major 'oh noes we're doomed' whining - ex: "A forge is IMO the most essential tool in this game, and now with your spawn system I need to try and forage a city with a crossbow and a stone axe?", or the actual topic text, and that kinda set the tone in my mind, diminishing the positive messages and highlighting additional whinyness.

(One of the parts I removed from my message was a direct response to that 'forage a city' quote saying, "No, you just need the crossbow.")

Yeah, I've noticed that too. They tend to hover a lot more and often don't come in for an attack. I haven't changed anything, and I only have .xml files for them from Alpha 10, so I can't tell if anything was changed in there my the pimps.

Yeah, it's definitely a vanilla thing. I've played 10.0, 10.1 and 10.2 vanilla when they were first released (to get a feel for the stock changes), and noticed during the stock play that they just floated around. I've only been attacked once by them, and there's been a few times when the sky was full of them, ignoring me... Not sure if that's a bug in A10 or a design change. I hope the former, as they were at least somewhat dangerous in large numbers in 9.3..

Anyhow, I've just finished another BTGB play session, I'm at Day 35 and about halfway (I'm estimating) through the tech tree. Still a little random for my taste, but finding safes and bookshelves remains exciting :)

[FlowerChild]

Anyhow, I've just finished another BTGB play session, I'm at Day 35 and about halfway (I'm estimating) through the tech tree. Still a little random for my taste, but finding safes and bookshelves remains exciting :)

Yeah, I agree on the randomness man. It's something I am trying to tame with time by both slowly increasing the number of skill books, and upping the odds of finding one. That way, the overall effort required is essentially the same, but you'll have steadier progress in smaller increments, which should make the process feel less disheartening overall (long stretches of finding squat is what I am personally finding to be the worst).

I'm also breaking up the basic and advanced skills in how they're acquired for the next release so there's more consistent methods to find each. I should be putting that out shortly, so you'll see the change log for yourself.

Anyways, that whole aspect is very WIP in my mind with what's there being simply a first past under my usual "releasing too hard is way better than releasing too easy" methodology.