My 1.8 observations

[redrew89]

Perhaps we could get an achievement for killing a Ghast with his own projectile. (Not a suggestion for BTW, of course. Just pondering if it might ever exist.)

What, you mean like Legend of Zelda?

[snip]

I forgot about that bit, but essentially, yes. :)

[DaveYanakov]

I found a whole new reason to love the ocean biomes today. I had taken the nether highway over to the large island I found two kilometers from spawn and went on an exploration cruise to see if I could find a nice farm-y plains area to build what will become the five acres of planters. By the time I circumnavigated the island in my little boat, night fell and the portal on the shore was overrun by a massive pack of four creepers and a bunch of archers. I had left my flint and steel at home so if the portal got blown out I would have been stranded in the middle of a desert, so I turned that boat around and sailed for home. In the dark. With mostly featureless water in all directions.

There were just enough in the way of 5 meter long landmark islands to get me home and seeing the constellation of torches on my home island come shining out of the dark as I approached was a truly excellent feeling.

[Urian]

Ghasts can't be hurt by their own fireballs... stupid asbestos ghasts.

I like ocean biomes as well, found a huge ravine at the bottom of one so there's a hole from the surface to Y13. Unfortunately it didn't spawn sourceblocks in the ravine so no premade boat elevator but not too much work to build one either.

[Urian]

Notch just tweeted (~1 minute ago, I happened to be checking twitter):

By the way, I will nerf the endermen block carrying. It was a horrible idea.

Yay, hopefully that will mean no more picking up player placed blocks! Twitter replies seem to interpret it as Endermen not being able to pick up blocks at all, that also works for me :)

[CheGiuAn]

-Ran into an Enderman in a natural cave I dug into while digging my first shaft. Must admit he made me nervous with me trying to scoot around him without looking directly at him. Feels like an interesting addition so far if only for that.

After I first met an Enderman (on the surface), I had a strong feeling to avoid looking at any creatures directly, not even on passives.

I also came across a 'Village', made only of a house, a wheat field and a well. (on the edge of a desert).
Anyways, I found my hermit home :D

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[dyrewulf]

Notch just tweeted (~1 minute ago, I happened to be checking twitter):

By the way, I will nerf the endermen block carrying. It was a horrible idea.

Yay, hopefully that will mean no more picking up player placed blocks! Twitter replies seem to interpret it as Endermen not being able to pick up blocks at all, that also works for me :)

My faith in Notch has been restored. Actually, this is exactly what I expected to happen. This is one of those concepts that seems good, until you see the ramifications in practice. Even though this could have been forseen, I don't fault Notch for giving this a try, that's the nature of beta, and as long as he remains willing to change things like this when they don't work out, it's all to his credit IMO.

If I were to suggest a more workable change that keeps the spirit of the endermen intact, I would make it so the block moving is only an animation and doesn't have any actual effect on the world, but I would make it so they can dismantle anything once they've been aggro'd (and make them more dangerous while he's at it). This way they still can get to you by tearing apart your safe haven, but they aren't destructive to your structures unless you piss them off, and you can kill them to put an end to it.

[FaceFoiled]

I came home to my castle last night, slightly tired so just walked through it all to my bank. Upon ariving at my bank I walked past a bedroom and realized that there was a block of cobblestone right in front of the door.

As there are several beds in there, I thought maybe Battosay and Sargunster were having a party inside and did not want to be disturbed. However, I am slightly crazy myself and as there are enough beds, I wanted to join in. After removing the block and entering, I realized that my dreams were crushed.. nobody was there.

DOH Enderman shenanigans! And I immediately noticed that there were quite a few blocks out of place. :P Most annoyingly, glass blocks - as I can't move those back but have to destroy them and replace them. :P (I don't use panels everywhere).

[darahalian]

If I were to suggest a more workable change that keeps the spirit of the endermen intact, I would make it so the block moving is only an animation and doesn't have any actual effect on the world, but I would make it so they can dismantle anything once they've been aggro'd (and make them more dangerous while he's at it). This way they still can get to you by tearing apart your safe haven, but they aren't destructive to your structures unless you piss them off, and you can kill them to put an end to it.

I really like this idea! It would make Endermen a whole lot scarier imo. I'm not exactly sure what you mean by making block movement while neutral only an animation...

I think they should also either not die in water or not die in sunlight; having both of those things hurt them is a bit too much I think. One or the other, fine, but not both.

[Fracture]

If I were to suggest a more workable change that keeps the spirit of the endermen intact, I would make it so the block moving is only an animation and doesn't have any actual effect on the world, but I would make it so they can dismantle anything once they've been aggro'd (and make them more dangerous while he's at it). This way they still can get to you by tearing apart your safe haven, but they aren't destructive to your structures unless you piss them off, and you can kill them to put an end to it.

I really like this idea! It would make Endermen a whole lot scarier imo. I'm not exactly sure what you mean by making block movement while neutral only an animation...

I think they should also either not die in water or not die in sunlight; having both of those things hurt them is a bit too much I think. One or the other, fine, but not both.

I'd say keep the death-by-water. Forces us to rethink defense a bit.

[Urian]

Endermen dying in water makes mob farms an interesting challenge. First off you'll need to have your spawning pads above the collection point and secondly you need to make sure that enderpearls can flow throughout the whole system without getting stuck. In other words, ether use ice or have the water channels in a stair formation.

[dyrewulf]

I'm not exactly sure what you mean by making block movement while neutral only an animation...

Means you see them picking up a block, or putting one down, but they really aren't doing anything at all, it's just for atmosphere.

Another idea I had was that they don't pick up any blocks, but will place down blocks and will eventually form a structure. One that is made up of a material you can't get anywhere else in the game. If you try to mine these structures, any enderman within range will attack you. Make the structures have some sinister but mysterious purpose (maybe an observational use, like they're studying the world, and you). I saw a good suggestion on the MC forums that they could place blocks that create darkness (the inverse of a torch), which might be cool, though that comes with issues of its own (creepers jumping you unexpectedly for example).

And a final idea is that there should be some way to get control over Endermen, maybe through use of the Ender Pearls. This would allow you to put them to work gathering specific blocks, a kind of slave labor. Send them to the nether to gather your netherrack which you need for your nethercoal factory. If any native Enderman comes into contact with the enslaved one, he could set it free, or kill it, or something. You would be able to restrict where the slaves can go by fencing them in (may need to make a custom marker or something for this). Tell him what to gather by giving him one block of the type you want. If you want a balance, make it so Endermen in captivity die after a few days, so you have to keep replenishing them. This seems like a very FC way of dealing with a somewhat broken mob (much as he did with the wolves).

[DaveYanakov]

Not quite. The FC way of dealing with wolves was to make them fire a byproduct off to the side when left in a small dark room, thereby encouraging you to completely remove their need for AI.

[Katalliaan]

Regarding dyrewolf's idea of having them build instead of destroy the buildings around them - I'd say having it be a structure that's purely aesthetic, but the materials could be a critical part of the tech tree, similar to how getting a portal is important in BTW's tech tree if you want longer-lasting fuel and to reach the steel tier.

[AmishGoat]

Guess I'll start with real quick introduction: I have been playing BTW for a while, mostly lurk here but finally decided to post.

Another idea I had was that they don't pick up any blocks, but will place down blocks and will eventually form a structure. One that is made up of a material you can't get anywhere else in the game. If you try to mine these structures, any enderman within range will attack you. Make the structures have some sinister but mysterious purpose (maybe an observational use, like they're studying the world, and you). I saw a good suggestion on the MC forums that they could place blocks that create darkness (the inverse of a torch), which might be cool, though that comes with issues of its own (creepers jumping you unexpectedly for example).

And a final idea is that there should be some way to get control over Endermen, maybe through use of the Ender Pearls. This would allow you to put them to work gathering specific blocks, a kind of slave labor. Send them to the nether to gather your netherrack which you need for your nethercoal factory. If any native Enderman comes into contact with the enslaved one, he could set it free, or kill it, or something. You would be able to restrict where the slaves can go by fencing them in (may need to make a custom marker or something for this). Tell him what to gather by giving him one block of the type you want. If you want a balance, make it so Endermen in captivity die after a few days, so you have to keep replenishing them. This seems like a very FC way of dealing with a somewhat broken mob (much as he did with the wolves).

Full post:

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For the first paragraph, this doesn't really fix the problem that many(or at least what I think the problem many have) with Endermen have, that they modify the existing terrain. Giving Endermen a block that they place that just triggers hostility to me sounds useless, better to keep their hostility triggers the way they are I think. (Though maybe this is a good idea for NPC villages with NPCs? Would *maybe* prevent some destruction, or at least just random stealing blocks from them.) And while a reverse torch that is randomly placed might be cool, I'm not sure it would be all that cool after the first 10 or so times, when you are as you mentioned, jumped by a creeper you should be able to see. To me that sounds frustrating, not something I'd want to happen time and time again.

For the second paragraph: This seems like a great idea, but I think is ignoring the basic problem with mobs in the game, the AI. While this may be implementable (I admit, my knowledge of Java is comparable to nothing so I suppose my opinion doesn't count for much then), how much would this slave labor really gain you? You would have to (most likely) constantly babysit a mob. Not to mention that they would probably be less efficient than you anyway. And as DaveYanakov said in the post above, FlowerChild changed wolves' function from something that follows you around and requires an AI, to something you find, then put in a nice(or not so nice) dark cell where it no AI for path finding or targeting or whatever is required - he did not increase the need for a good AI, but decreased the need.

And lastly, I do indeed hope that you find none of this offensive in anyway, especially as this is my first post/I'm a noob.

TL;DR: First idea doesn't really fix anything, and seems to like it would be a frustrating feature. Slavery idea sounds cool, but really isn't as good as it sounds (If you want something done right, do it yourself). This would also magnify any problems that the mob AI has.

Off topic: I'd really like to say that I think this mod is by far the best that I've seen, and that I really do appreciate the work that FlowerChild puts into it. And I apologize for the wall of text, hopefully the spoiler and TL;DR helped.

[dyrewulf]

Not quite. The FC way of dealing with wolves was to make them fire a byproduct off to the side when left in a small dark room, thereby encouraging you to completely remove their need for AI.

Well that's the specific implementation, but in general terms you're exploiting the mob for your own benefit, rather than using it as intended.

Regarding other points about the slave idea and block placement, these are good arguments for sure.

I don't think the simple AI issue would really be a problem though. I picture it as you define the area that the mob will remain within, give it a block, and put a chest somewhere within the area you've defined, or maybe multiple chests if it would help out. The slave then just path-finds between the nearest block of the type it is after, and the chest(s). Depending on the circumstance of what block you're getting them to take, they could really wreck the terrain they're standing on, but this wouldn't matter if you put the area in a distant part of your world where you don't otherwise visit (through a nether portal for example). If the area got so messed up that they get stuck, well, they'll die eventually(if that were implemented) so no big loss. It's just a form of free resources, whatever they gather is stuff you didn't have to spend your time gathering.

Regarding the structures, this is just a way of getting a unique and presumably useful resource into the game that wouldn't be there otherwise, while retaining some aspect of the Enderman's block manipulation mechanic. When you find these structures, much like an ore, you would want to harvest them, rather than complain that they're messing up the beauty of the terrain. The danger in mining them would be sufficient as to make it a challenge. As long as the Endermen could tear down any structure you put up in defense, you couldn't simply wall the thing off and harvest it in safety. Good programming should allow the structures to remain fairly rare, and spawn prevention methods will prevent the structures from interfering with your own.

I realize I've gone far off topic here and this is likely stuff belonging in the suggestions forum, so I'll shut up now.

[DaveYanakov]

My point was that FCs concern was pet dogs requiring some fairly advanced AI. His use for wolves effectively removes that AI scripting from the game entirely. What you are describing is in no way a simple task. Just ask the creators of the Millénaire mod. With the same amount of effort, FC could probably get Steve halfway to launching a surveillance satellite for generating an in game Cartograph map that updates in real time as chunks are generated.