Transporting villagers (spoilers)

[FlowerChild]

Somehow this line really gets to me, even though i can't really put it into words adequately, i think this is the reason why you, FC, is so good at what you're doing. You try to look for the underlying issue. I tip my hat to you, FC. Thank you for all the work you've poured into BTW.

Hehe...thanks man. And yeah, I'm always trying to get into the heads of players and understand their thought processes (and introduce them to new and interesting ones), as I think that's a huge part of what game design is about. I think it's particularly important in an open ended creative game like MC where so many options are available to the player to consider what's motivating them to do what and when if you want them to make real use of what you view to be the coolest aspects of the game. All you can really do is nudge them in a particular direction and try to make what you view as the most fun aspects of the game also be the most attractive.

With the above, yeah, I can definitely hear the diamond thing as it basically provides an alternative to branch mining. I also can see how this would be a larger issue in an older world where you may have spent an inordinate amount of time at your main base.

So thanks for the explanations guys. Definitely makes more sense to me now.

[jorgebonafe]

I've got to ask: what is it you guys are trying to avoid in taking such extreme measures?

Ok, the problem with me is more or less what Kazuya said. Making new bases would not normally be a problem... I like, for example, to make mining expeditions far away from home, and make bases on those places. But the thing with villagers is, because of the nature of village trades, you need many different types of items, which means the need to make farms and automations of most types you can have in the game... I don't mind making different bases for different purposes, but to make a new base that has every single farm and automation I already have in my main base seems too much... I honestly rather dig a tunnel and get some more diamonds, of which I am in short suply.

[FlowerChild]

Got another question for you guys: are you digging these tunnels pre Soulforged Steel or post? Given these are older worlds, I suspect it's probably post.

Just occurred to me that it might also be weighing it towards the tunneling as well, and given gaining SFS is now dependent on villagers, that might tend to shift the balance towards leaving them where they are for players when they first discover them.

[jorgebonafe]

Got another question for you guys: are you digging these tunnels pre Soulforged Steel or post? Given these are older worlds, I suspect it's probably post.

Just occurred to me that it might also be weighing it towards the tunneling as well, and given gaining SFS is now dependent on villagers, that might tend to shift the balance towards leaving them where they are for players when they first discover them.

No, its actually the opposite for me. I started this world about a month ago, and just found the villages recently... The fact that they are needed to reach the SFS tech is what made me want to bring them back to my base as soon as possible.

[Yhetti]

Got another question for you guys: are you digging these tunnels pre Soulforged Steel or post? Given these are older worlds, I suspect it's probably post.

Pre. Though post is probably a better idea and sounds more appealing anyways.. I posted some pictures of the tunnel and the main base and such in the "show your builds" post.

I am actually just barely building a mob trap, I really need a nether trap though now. The tunnel has sucked me dry of both gold and iron.

[FaceFoiled]

I've got to ask: what is it you guys are trying to avoid in taking such extreme measures? Or to put it another way:

"For the love of gods and all that is holy....WHY???!!!!" :)

Digging 4 Km tunnels is certainly not a gameplay dynamic I want to be encouraging. I think building new bases in a game whose strengths largely lay in that area is a good thing, but it saddens to see it mutating into this and perhaps if I understood the motivation behind it better I could address it.

For me, it's about consolidation. I like to expand bases, and not spread them out too far. For expeditions, I do like to setup a minimal base camp, but in general I prefer to expand my main base. There is something really gratifying about "building up" your base, expanding it as if it were a SIM game. You start off with nothing, and build up and expand. You build up a sewage system, aquaducts, farms, mills, blacksmiths etc. You end up with a village growing into a town, and for me personally, having that section for villagers would just "one up" the town again, it's part of what I personally enjoy.

However! For the villagers specifically;
I would initially start out securing the villagers at their own village, and setup a base there to improve on that and gather resources to travel "some" back safely over time. I would not strip the village, I'd transport villagers back over time. That would be part of the fun for me as well, I want those scary fuckers living in my base and will set up an expedition to do so. =)

I feel a new LP coming up. :( Good thing Watch Dogs isn't grabbing me :P

[Dorugami]

I've got to ask: what is it you guys are trying to avoid in taking such extreme measures? Or to put it another way:

"For the love of gods and all that is holy....WHY???!!!!" :)

Digging 4 Km tunnels is certainly not a gameplay dynamic I want to be encouraging. I think building new bases in a game whose strengths largely lay in that area is a good thing, but it saddens to see it mutating into this and perhaps if I understood the motivation behind it better I could address it.

I get attached to my main base. You take care of it like a pet, it's the best thing you see after a HCS, and the suggestion that you eventually have to leave all of it behind? It just nags at my head every time...that this particular base I'm investing a lot of time into will always have to be temporary for me to efficiently advance to the next progression on the tech tree.

And then there's the problem of not having enough villager variety at a specific site, so you set up automation there to supply that base, and when you find that errant villager variety it's like you're compelled to make another base there...it's rather daunting.

And for aesthetics I generally tend to make my bases "town-like" and yanno, villagers are just the right touch ;) I'm actually more partial to making that 4km tunnel myself, heh.

[Equitis1024]

I get attached to my main base. You take care of it like a pet, it's the best thing you see after a HCS, and the suggestion that you eventually have to leave all of it behind? It just nags at my head every time...that this particular base I'm investing a lot of time into will always have to be temporary for me to efficiently advance to the next progression on the tech tree.

People seem to be over-estimating how large village bases need to be. It's not a choice between leaving your main base behind forever or dragging villagers kilometers through the overworld. In my case, my village base is just a satellite to my main base. I can access it safely and quickly through a nether railway, and easily transport all the materials I need for trading from my main base. I set up walls and ditches around the village, basic machinery, several large manual farms for plants, and a squid farm (because my main base is poorly situated for one). I got several villagers to level 5 and enough scrolls to last me for a while, and it was definitely far less work than digging several kilometers through deep strata. I don't feel any need to bring my villagers back home; it's not like they need to be right at hand.

Granted, I actually do intend to turn my village into my new primary base, but that's because my old base is in spawn chunks and now I have to manually shut off various farms whenever I go on an extended trip or else the automation gets messed up...

[Battlecat]

I've contemplated moving the villagers back to our main base a couple times, but I think I'll save that project for later. But that's primarily because I don't have any extensive automation set up yet and because the connection I've established through the nether is reasonably efficient.

On the other hand, if I ever find a blacksmith, I'm going to relocate him to the main village as quickly as possible. I expect that will involve a large tunnel or overland journey.

[DesLien]

I brought back all of my villagers to my main base mostly because almost every nether portal I had made landed me in biomes that should have villages, but never did. I went all directions in the nether going in between 500-600 blocks. I dont know if my seed had a smaller chance for villages to happen but I ended up just going overworld style, found two with a variety, and brought them back with a compass.

[hmanipsalam]

Got another question for you guys: are you digging these tunnels pre Soulforged Steel or post? Given these are older worlds, I suspect it's probably post.

Just occurred to me that it might also be weighing it towards the tunneling as well, and given gaining SFS is now dependent on villagers, that might tend to shift the balance towards leaving them where they are for players when they first discover them.

Indeed we have access to refined tools. However I'm not sure if using only diamond tools would have made a big difference.
Pre End we already had a lot of diamond ingots and we were set up to recycle our tools.

[FlowerChild]

Pre End we already had a lot of diamond ingots and we were set up to recycle our tools.

Well, it's largely a question of speed. If a player knows they'll be receiving an upgrade that allows them to do something tedious like dig a 4Km tunnel faster, there may be a tendency to put off doing so until that upgrade is received.

Thanks for the responses on this guys. I'll continue to mull it over.

[Yhetti]

My thought process is as follows: I have two villages next to each other, about 10km away across a gigantic fucking ocean. Along the way there are two mushroom islands.

My nether portal goes less than halfway and winds up on an island in the middle of nowhere, I could probably do some math and figure out how I can get it to come up right where I want it.. Either way transporting enough materials to where I am satisfied and can build a second base might take quite a while, unless it was a particularly small base, which just doesn't sound appealing when I have spend all this time making my current masterpiece of design.

Tunneling underground yields a lot of diamonds and redstone, requires little focus, and will let me keep the villagers at home.

I really only know what a couple of the trades are, so even if I were to bring the bare essentials and start a new settlement, I wouldn't know what I should be sure to bring.

In the end it was a hard decision, and I kind of regret starting this gigantic tunnel, I might hold off on finishing it until I get steel and just go ahead and build a new settlement.

If I had been a little more lucky finding villages, I would have probably made a second base no questions asked.

[ion]

i did my tunnel of 2k east 4k south with diamond pick once i got smelting available. for me the only option is to have a base near the original spawn for the late tech END trips

[EtherealWrath]

Aside from a longer walk; is there any significant difference between digging a 4k tunnel and branch mining?

Spoiler

Show

My mines probably have around 70 branches
I usually place a torch when I can't see what I'm digging (call it 10 blocks/torch)
Theres a lot of variation, but nearly all of them have 5+ torches (most likely a 10-12 average)
-Which would work out at around 7km of tunnel.

[FlowerChild]

The one big difference IMO is that you can use branch mining to also light up caves you intersect to improve the efficiency of any mob trap you have in the area.

Usually when I'm doing it I make sure it's centered on my mob trap for precisely that reason. Obviously, if you're just digging under a long stretch of terrain, you don't get that benefit.

[ion]

it's never worth to branch mine under your mob trap, as in doing so you may expose some slime chunks. slime spawn would lower your mob trap drop output. better os doing to old skool listen to squeaky noises or ambient sounds to find the dark caves around your base. for me the mines are far away from my main base.

[FlowerChild]

it's never worth to branch mine under your mob trap

Yeah, I don't at all agree with that. I've had a steady output increase as I've branch mined in this manner so I don't think the slime chunks affect the rate as much as you think (actually...I'm not even certain slimes apply to the same counter).

And surface exploration listening for caves is fine and all, and I certainly do that as well, but not all caves extend anywhere near the surface.

[Taleric]

The tunnel is an approach I would only tackle out of frustration. If my nether was very open and the overworld had a ton of oceans I might tunnel. Building a new base was pretty natural but has the drawback of all that lighting work (underground) done back home already. Also my senses scream to grid and mark every inch of HCS before moving on to new areas.

I have a suspicion the goto tunnelers might be stone pick axe types that refuse to use iron prior to smelting.

[jorgebonafe]

I have a suspicion the goto tunnelers might be stone pick axe types that refuse to use iron prior to smelting.

Nope...

[Yhetti]

I have a suspicion the goto tunnelers might be stone pick axe types that refuse to use iron prior to smelting.

I definitely use iron tools prior to smelting, but I never use them all the way, instead of breaking them I just keep them in a chest when they are almost used up because why would I waste free iron?

[Taleric]

Suspicious debunked, I yield :P

[EtherealWrath]

it's never worth to branch mine under your mob trap, as in doing so you may expose some slime chunks. slime spawn would lower your mob trap drop output. better os doing to old skool listen to squeaky noises or ambient sounds to find the dark caves around your base. for me the mines are far away from my main base.

Slimes are fairly useful anyway- assuming your tunnels are actually big enough for them to spawn in.
(If you don't want them- its easy to stop them)

[ion]

i forgot to tell you why i choose and when i do my branch mining. i start the massive branch mining when i have access to sfs and high level beacons and scrolls. i do that to get diamonds rest are just bonuses. i make 3 max beacons (glowstone, gold and the fire immune one) above ground centered to my mining shaft and for mining i use a silk touch, unbreaking 3 mattock better with eff 3 but those scrolls are hard to get. i don't use any torches in the process that's why i mine far away from my base