Kerbal Space Program 0.21 is out!

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FlowerChild
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Re: Kerbal Space Program 0.21 is out!

Post by FlowerChild »

TheAnarchitect wrote:It would be especially hilarious if you just re-used the minecraft wolf model too.
I wouldn't risk the potential lawsuit :)

I was thinking of a custom model somewhere between the MC art-style and the Kerbal one to still suggest the origins without outright ripping off the art.

I was joking in IRC last week about how awesome it would be to send a companion cube on EVA and have it float off into space with a trail of hearts. When I say my mind is going off on uncontrollable tangents, I really mean it ;)

Honestly, if I were independently wealthy, I could easily see devoting myself to making a Kerbal mod next. The game just has awesome potential, and I had to seriously restrain myself from making a "small test mod" last week just because I knew the slippery slope it could easily put me on.
Mason11987
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Re: Kerbal Space Program 0.21 is out!

Post by Mason11987 »

I just spent like 2 hours trying to dock two things in orbit together, I got SOOOOO close but I think I got greedy and saw it flash by me 100km up about 200m away. I'm not sure if I"m just not this detail oriented, I'm missing something, or it's just hard to do.

I'll keep trying though.
Last edited by Mason11987 on Fri Aug 02, 2013 11:16 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Taleric
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Re: Kerbal Space Program 0.21 is out!

Post by Taleric »

Play with orbits in map mode till you have around .1-5km separation at intersect.

Kill all motion relative to target via indicator above nav-ball once at that point.

Make small controlled bursts towards target till dock-mode on and profit :)

Very rewarding that first time.
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Phrostbit3n
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Re: Kerbal Space Program 0.21 is out!

Post by Phrostbit3n »

I've been playing with the demo while reading this thread (you guys are about to cost me $20), and I hated how ugly Asparagus ships were. So I made a pretty one, almost got on a crash course with the moon, but was slow and missed my mark.

Looks like a Spider Web :)
http://cloud-2.steampowered.com/ugc/578 ... 08F681AF9/

Edit: If I weren't looking forward to RTH so much, I would make a forum sig banner supporting Companion Cubes in space. Another day, I guess...
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TheAnarchitect
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Re: Kerbal Space Program 0.21 is out!

Post by TheAnarchitect »

FlowerChild wrote:Honestly, if I were independently wealthy, I could easily see devoting myself to making a Kerbal mod next. The game just has awesome potential, and I had to seriously restrain myself from making a "small test mod" last week just because I knew the slippery slope it could easily put me on.
I guess we'll just have to wait for the developers to add something that pisses you off.
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Re: Kerbal Space Program 0.21 is out!

Post by jkievlan »

FlowerChild wrote:Actually, if I remember right, the author mentions that design needs to be maneuvered very gradually during the gravity turn. If you're going into spins, I suspect you're being too heavy on the controls.
Well, the problem is that even with light maneuvering during the gravity turn, it wobbles so much that it tips badly off course and I get severe declination and so on. Also, at first I was trying to keep it from rotating (which made the rotation worse), and realized eventually that with the nav-ball I can maneuver it just fine even if there's some rotation...so I don't bother to correct it until I'm on a Mun trajectory and docking the CSM to the lander. I did decide the extra monopropellant tanks were overkill and too much mass, but with some extra struts and canards I've now landed on the Mun twice...and both times failed to successfully redock in Mun orbit due to some dumb mistakes. But still...it was pretty awesome :)

In other news...NASA would never, ever put up with the horrific risks I take with the lives of my Kerbonauts :)
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Re: Kerbal Space Program 0.21 is out!

Post by jkievlan »

Mason11987 wrote:I just spent like 2 hours trying to dock two things in orbit together, I got SOOOOO close but I think I got greedy and saw it flash by me 100km up about 200m away. I'm not sure if I"m just not this detail oriented, I'm missing something, or it's just hard to do.

I'll keep trying though.
Man, it's just a matter of meticulous patience (e.g., give your capsules *tiny* thrust and wait for them to move where you want them...don't hold down the button because you're impatient) and using the indicators on the nav-ball. I'll repeat that: use the indicators on your nav-ball. If you don't use them properly, and carefully, and patiently, you'll never accomplish this kind of maneuver. If you saw it "flash by," you were never even remotely close. The first thing you have to learn is how to put two objects close together in orbit with zero relative velocity.

These are the things you need to learn:

A: get into a circular orbit (not more than a few hundred meters difference between periapsis and apoapsis).

II: get into the *same* circular orbit a second time.

sqrt(3)^2: slightly raise and lower your orbital altitude to control the speed of an orbiting object (higher orbits are slower, lower orbits are faster; paradoxically, you get into a higher orbit by speeding up, so in this case, slow=fast and fast=slow).

chr('D')-64: use the yellow indicator on the nav-ball to control your speed relative to the object to which you are docking, and the purple indicator to control your heading towards said object. With these two tools you can place two objects in a precisely identical location.

5: Understand that the numbering of the above bullet points makes perfect sense.
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Re: Kerbal Space Program 0.21 is out!

Post by jkievlan »

The plaque on Flattish Area reads:

"We didn't die! Woo! We were sorta worried about that."
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Re: Kerbal Space Program 0.21 is out!

Post by BinoAl »

TheAnarchitect wrote:
FlowerChild wrote:Honestly, if I were independently wealthy, I could easily see devoting myself to making a Kerbal mod next. The game just has awesome potential, and I had to seriously restrain myself from making a "small test mod" last week just because I knew the slippery slope it could easily put me on.
I guess we'll just have to wait for the developers to add something that pisses you off.
Next update... Mun caves, with tamable wolves contained within! Don't worry too much, if you crash in the cave, your ship respawns in orbit
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Re: Kerbal Space Program 0.21 is out!

Post by PatriotBob »

I'm just waiting for RemoteTech 2.0 to release, I've been kinda messing around until it does. I absolutely love how the mod give purpose to geostationary satellites. And gives the game a manner of progression. As it currently stands I can just build a rocket, put it in orbit and hurl it out to Eeloo or a moon of Jool. Prior to carrier mode, it feels like a really natural way to let the player progress from orbit, to Mun, and on out.
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Re: Kerbal Space Program 0.21 is out!

Post by Splee999 »

So hopefully I can keep this awesome thread from dying by saying:

Spaceplanes. Are flippin' awesome!

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These beauties both made it into orbit and docked without dropping any stages thanks to the magic of wings and air-breathing engines. They were a ton of fun to design and test.

My only complaint is that if you have runway wheels attached to your plane at any angle other than 90 degrees perpendicular to the ground, for some reason it causes the planes to freak out, flip over, and explode poor kerbals all over the runway when you try to take off... it's kinda a weird bug.
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Re: Kerbal Space Program 0.21 is out!

Post by Gilberreke »

Oh wow, those space planes ARE cool. Will have to give that a try. I wonder if I can use them to launch bigger stuff too, might do a space plane only thing.
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Re: Kerbal Space Program 0.21 is out!

Post by Splee999 »

Gilberreke wrote:I wonder if I can use them to launch bigger stuff too
Well, if you are looking to launch stuff with a spaceplane, I stumbled upon some guy who created a cargo spaceplane that he calls the Tubby X... you should check it out- It's pretty cool to look at...

http://imgur.com/a/cVKUh

http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/sho ... Spaceplane

Oh, if it wasn't clear - these ones aren't mine, but I thought they were cool enough to show off anyway.
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Re: Kerbal Space Program 0.21 is out!

Post by Padfoote »

If you're going to be playing around with space planes and looking for more parts designed specifically for them, I'd recommend the B9 Aerospace Pack. I've been playing around with it for a bit and have had a lot of fun so far.

The pack adds internal cargo bays, VTOL engines, some new cockpits, wings, etc. Overall, I'm having a ton of fun messing with space planes thanks to it.
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Re: Kerbal Space Program 0.21 is out!

Post by Phrostbit3n »

My demo-noob self just built something that got me to the moon -- and made 9 more craters!

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/f ... =167090264
All non-asparagus.

On another note, I've had dreams of Galactic Conquest for the past few nights. I know it's (highly) overrated, but I've got to say, I really want to defend Kerbin from an alien invasion.

As for mods that are out now, these are very fancy, and pretty not-OP. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K1H8YvhwlQw
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Re: Kerbal Space Program 0.21 is out!

Post by Katalliaan »

Gilberreke wrote:Oh wow, those space planes ARE cool. Will have to give that a try. I wonder if I can use them to launch bigger stuff too, might do a space plane only thing.
Well, I've seen a stock spaceplane that could lift a full orange tank into orbit, so I'd imagine it's possible.
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Re: Kerbal Space Program 0.21 is out!

Post by devak »

I just tested the Aeris 4a (stock).

So at my first attempt i flew to 12km on airbreathing engines, engaged the rockets and shut down the airbreathers and went to orbit (70km orbit). Going down again, i discovered to my horror that the airbreathers were deprived of liquidfuel.

The second attempt i tried to push the craft to airbreathing limits. To my surprise, it was still going pretty well up to 25km. speed: 800-1000 m/s (didn't see the end figure due to my attention shifting to the rocket phase). My first attempt had me glowing red from air resistance, but the second run went smooth and the top of my parabola is at 400km. i shutdown the liquid fuel feed on my jet engines to conserve it for my return flight, but found that my rocket ran out of liquidfuel too fast and i had to re-enable the feed mid-rocketflight.

still, orbital jets are pretty cool and way more powerful than i thought.
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Re: Kerbal Space Program 0.21 is out!

Post by Katalliaan »

If anyone here who's interested in KSP isn't following it already, I suggest setting up an RSS feed for the KSP Weekly articles. This week's hints that they've started work on Career Mode, with Harvester designing the tech tree and Romfarer working on the GUI for R&D. Even if you don't care about the other stuff in it (Youtube spotlight, fan works, mods), it's still a quick and easy way to see what the team's been working on.
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Re: Kerbal Space Program 0.21 is out!

Post by abzu93 »

Mission Control just got updated by someone else who picked up the ball. After messing around with it for the last several hours, I've had a blast doing the remake of the stock missions. I recommend using only stock parts for the missions, excepting the occasional mod a set of missions calls for (such as Kethane).

It also allows for add-in mission sets from other Mission Control authors.

Mission Control Extended on KSP forum- http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/sho ... 28ALPHA%29
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Re: Kerbal Space Program 0.21 is out!

Post by FlowerChild »

Oddly, I've been playing MC extended this afternoon too :)

It didn't just get put out BTW. He updated to .21 within a couple of days of it coming out.

So far I'm enjoying it, but I'd really like there to be a whole lot more to it.
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Re: Kerbal Space Program 0.21 is out!

Post by Taleric »

Playing the MC .21 Civilian Space Program a few days back I arrived at the following design for most of the initial missions with slight fuel/component changes.

Just under budget enough to keep the missions rolling.
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The program took a dive after I miss read the space tourist requirements and lost a very expensive rocket + crew (200K+).

Wish they would take out cross feed and the ram air exploit. KSP is more fun with heavy design cost/limitations but I doubt I can go much further in MC without using cross feed to make budget.
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Re: Kerbal Space Program 0.21 is out!

Post by FlowerChild »

Woot! Achievement unlocked!
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I did that as part of the stock Mission Controller mission, Minmus II, and managed to pull it off on my first try. Minmus I on the other hand saw one failed attempt when I forgot to open the solar panels on the way there and my probe went hurtling off into interstellar space :)

Anarch: I'd like to return for a moment to our earlier discussion about operating on a budget. After playing around with it awhile this way, I must say it adds some much needed design constraints to the equation.

I heard what you were saying about the relative part balance, and to an extent, I agree. The thing is, operating on a budget really motivates custom designing spacecraft for individual missions instead of just using generic rockets, and that's a very good thing IMO. I really feel motivated to only put together just enough rocket to accomplish my mission rather than going way overboard and launching every satellite on the equivalent of a Saturn V just because I know with certainty that it will get the job done. This adds a heck of a lot more diversity to the gameplay IMO.

I think what this basically amounts to is adding an aspect of optimization to rocket design, and this is making it a lot more fun for me. It also adds much more tension to the in-flight portion, as you know that if you mess up somewhere, you're going to be out a very expensive rocket without any income from completing the mission. Completing a mission also provides a nice sense of additional accomplishment in the form of a bit of in-game candy.

Anyways, I'm finding it's becoming somewhat a game of brinkmanship where you don't want to spend money on extra fuel or equipment than you need as that cuts into your profit, but on the other hand, that reduces your margin for error dramatically.

Long and the short of it is that I'd recommend giving it a shot, as I think it really adds something special to the game, even in its limited state.

If anyone is curios, this was the rocket I used which cost me around 23K out of a budget of 96K:
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Re: Kerbal Space Program 0.21 is out!

Post by TheAnarchitect »

I agree that some resource use design constraint should be there. It serves a double purpose in my mind. The first is what you bring up: design the minimum you need to the mission. The second is to incentivize reusable rockets, spaceplanes, ssto, and all that jazz, instead of solid fuel rockets and asparagus staging.

I just think that a money budget is kind of a boring way to do it. Let me see if I can explain why.

All the other constraints on rocket design are a function of the physics. You need your thrust to weight ratio to overpower your gravity well, you need to carry enough delta V to get where you're going, you need to reduce drag in atmosphere and keep center of thrust and center of mass in line, etc. It's all a function of the physics, and that's what makes it so awesome. These are no arbitrary constraints.

A monetary budget, on the other hand, is a decidedly social constraint. Yes, all economics in it's finality come down to material resource constraints, but by the time you're allocating funds to programs you're operating at a level of abstraction so far removed from the material reality that it's hardly connected at all. And to bring this social constraint in, one has to make various assumptions about the society and economic systems of the kerbals, namely that they closely resemble ours from this century. That is super boring. Spaceships designed by any culture would have many features in common because of the physical constraints of space flight, but may have otherwise widely varying features based on the culture creating them. I want my rockets to resemble the rockets of our space programs only to the extent required by physics, not because of cultural constraints.

I'd prefer a system less abstracted than money budgets. I'd prefer limits on resources. You only have so much fuel available in a given month. You only have so much material to build with. Building things takes time, the bigger the longer, and you don't want to miss your launch window. These are all "budget" constraints, that I think would incentivize both building minimally and re-using and recycling where possible. These are more "real," Physical constraints, which makes it less arbitrary than "you have X dollars because that's all the government of kerbal cares to spend." I also think it transitions better into eventual off-planet construction better. When you've got a base on the Mun, you won't be mining and refining dollars, you'll be grabbing ores and kethane (or helium 3, or whatever), and using that to build your modules.

Now personally, I don't need outside incentive to build minimally or attempt 100% reusability, these are things I would do given an unlimited budget anyway because I'm like that. So I personally am not going to install a mod to force those constraints on me unless I find the mechanic it uses to do so interesting in it's own right. A monetary budget and pre-defined missions just makes me go Blah. It sounds too much like my day job.
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abzu93
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Re: Kerbal Space Program 0.21 is out!

Post by abzu93 »

TheAnarchitect wrote:...
You lost me at how exchange rates of an economy DO NOT translate directly into your power to acquire/produce the parts needed for any given launch.

To me it works out as you describe, such as agencies investing your program with a certain power to gather materials (credits). Once you launch to other planets, it wouldn't be so much credits as it is gathering actual materials. However, one can assume there is more than just the space program on Kerbin that is vying for resources; perhaps even other space agencies.

Money is just a shortcut and an overall index of power to acquire/build/etc. I have a hard time seeing it not used.
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Re: Kerbal Space Program 0.21 is out!

Post by maxsi »

from the ksp weekely for those that not folow:
Felipe (Harvester) wrote:Picking up momentum again after a very welcome break last week. Started designing the Tech Tree for the upcoming Research & Development. Much too soon to get into detail about it, but it’s starting to look very interesting and cool. There will be a proper dev blog about it once it’s presentable.
Jim (Romfarer) wrote: I am currently working on the Research & Development gui. What can i confirm at this time? It will have a tech tree with nodes, represent technology you can research. For every technology there will be a display telling you which parts you can unlock.
so the tech tree is on the way, we maybe see some of it in .22
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