Seasons discussussion

[finite8]

Creating this topic due to a discussion raised in "Vanilla Minecraft News Discussion" viewtopic.php?f=3&t=6470&p=119177#p119177

Seasons:

I Don't mind that idea too much, as long as it actually alters the mechanics too. Just some pointless cosmetic feature i think will only serve to annoy people when their pretty castle becomes half covered in snow. I think the only way this could work to make the game more interesting is to force the player to avoid the cold (i.e: Don't Starve)

Don't starve isn't a 3d game though. To avoid cold you have to basically insulate yourself and/or generate heat. Since MC doesn't have finite liquid model trying to simulate finite liquid in every block of atmosphere as well as heat transfer seems somewhat unlikely.

How could you effectively simulate heat loss otherwise. A person on top of a mountain in a winter should freeze but what if you're in a cave beneath the surface? Should a person at the bottom of a ravine lose the same amount of heat as somebody on top of a mountain? If obstructing the sky is enough to provide insulation in winter all you really need to do to warm yourself is levitate some wood planks over your head with no need to construct walls.

Is there anyway Wind deflection and windchill, which is a real threat in the wild, can be simulated ?

I don't think it needs to go so far as to simulate windchill as you are right, nigh impossible to simulate under the current design. But there are a few lessons that can be learned from DayZ, Don't Starve and other games such as:
- Standing on snow: Gets you very cold.
- Being wet: caused by swimming or walking in rain. Multiplies the chill rate and reduces temperature for as long as you are wet.
- Being indoors: will not effect temperature however, some warmth applies if the nearby materials are insulating (wood and wool are 2 materials that come to mind).
- Fire: dries you out and warms you up. Effectiveness of this increases if indoors and the surrounding materials are insulating.

[Xeo]

I suddenly got a huge urge to build a sweat lodge, bonus points if it's practical!

Also I think that snow in normally non-snow biomes during winter could be interesting, requiring you to either build covered roads everywhere or clean up snow during winter.

[JakeZKAM]

There is always the inclusion of wearing clothing (armor) in order to slow the effect cold has on you. With the current set of armor the only one that makes the slightest sense is leather yet still, an interesting concept. In BTW however it could be tied to fat levels...

Also on the other end of the spectrum is Heat and sun exposure. While everything could be hunky dory in certain biomes during the summer, Deserts and Jungles could always be a living hell ;)

[ExpHP]

This is begging for a snowball fight to see who can keep themselves from mistaking the snowbank for a pillow the longest.

How could you effectively simulate heat loss otherwise. A person on top of a mountain in a winter should freeze but what if you're in a cave beneath the surface? Should a person at the bottom of a ravine lose the same amount of heat as somebody on top of a mountain? If obstructing the sky is enough to provide insulation in winter all you really need to do to warm yourself is levitate some wood planks over your head with no need to construct walls.

Eh. There's no reason to make it that complicated, even if it was possible. There are plenty of other dangers associated with not having walls around.

Still, in my experience, I'm stuck indoors for several in-game days is a rather frustrating concept to deal with, as is I need to have intimate knowledge of thermodynamics, Earth Science and meteorology to survive.

[The Phoenixian]

I think there's another possibility to be looked at: Even if Steve himself can all to easily flee too warmer domains, or is unaffected, that does not mean everything he has created would be so unsusceptible or easy to move.

For example, if part of his activities are dependent something that requires reasonably exposure to sunlight to work, like if hemp growth was extended to all crops, that would make winter more of a challenge wouldn't it? (Assuming you have a hunger system fitted to the concept.)

[Kazuya Mishima]

Eh. There's no reason to make it that complicated, even if it was possible. There are plenty of other dangers associated with not having walls around.

Still, in my experience, I'm stuck indoors for several in-game days is a rather frustrating concept to deal with, as is I need to have intimate knowledge of thermodynamics, Earth Science and meteorology to survive.

I agree if i understand you correctly. A survivalist or nomad who is stuck in a blizzard doesn't need to understand thermodynamics because his body gives him direct feedback about being too cold and too hot. Designing a reasonable simulation without minimal considerations of how bodies lose heat i'm not so sure.

- Standing on snow: Gets you very cold.
- Being wet: caused by swimming or walking in rain. Multiplies the chill rate and reduces temperature for as long as you are wet.
- Being indoors: will not effect temperature however, some warmth applies if the nearby materials are insulating (wood and wool are 2 materials that come to mind).
- Fire: dries you out and warms you up. Effectiveness of this increases if indoors and the surrounding materials are insulating.

-Being wet seems like a good idea but as it gets colder rain or exposure to moisture becomes less likely as it freezes. This also shouldn't apply deep underground when i'm working on my mob trap and a blizzard is occurring on the surface above.
-Being indoors is equivalent to sticking cobble blocks to tree leaves and standing under them though.


insulation: what if you're deep underground in a massive cave , the walls over 20m to your sides. Under that scenario you would have the same conditions as being on the surface. A cave would shield you from heat loss that a person on the surface would experience due to more rapid air flow. How do you make massive cave systems not equivalent to lethal surface conditions

snow standing: It would seem bizarre to me if drill holes into the earth down to a bedrock chamber for illumination that i would begin to freeze to death as i stand on the snow that falls through 60 to 100m of earth yet all neighboring blocks do not cause heat loss.

-Fire drying you out or heating you is obvious but once you go to the nether you have unlimited fire, light and heat. In fact to add on that point of ease of resource acquisition building a shelter itself is way to easy, there is no consideration of joints, load bearing , bracing or anything like that so to get up some sort of "wooden-coat" when it gets cold would require a matter of seconds of lego-ing planks and cocooning yourself. No long term planning is required here.

All this being said i would love having brutal winters and blizzards and know that if i don't plan for inclement weather i would die.

[Rianaru]

I think a simple implementation of this could be really good, but there would probably be diminishing returns as it got more and more involved. Indoors/outdoors, wetness, cold, etc. is probably a good idea, but wind currents and stuff like that may not be worth development time. Maybe some basic insulation physics or something, but I don't think the game really needs much more

[eternal8phoenix]

-Fire drying you out or heating you is obvious but once you go to the nether you have unlimited fire, light and heat. In fact to add on that point of ease of resource acquisition building a shelter itself is way to easy, there is no consideration of joints, load bearing , bracing or anything like that so to get up some sort of "wooden-coat" when it gets cold would require a matter of seconds of lego-ing planks and cocooning yourself. No long term planning is required here.

All this being said i would love having brutal winters and blizzards and know that if i don't plan for inclement weather i would die.

Except the nether is essentially hell. I'd imagine you'd take penalties there for being too hot. Especially if you're wearing heavy armor as that suddenly amounts to a lot of extra work. I don't like hauling anything around in summer, let alone a heavy iron breastplate over an infinite lava lake. Adding into that the fact that metal conducts heat well, and you've got armor that negatively affects, maybe even damages you in the nether.